Design Tips For An RPG

[Davaris]

What I'd like to do is examine an Indie RPG like Avernium and figure out what makes it successful in terms of its design. Then I'd like people to look at my RPG and tell me what it needs to make it succeed. I've thought of submitting it to the Feedback section, but you mainly get bug reports or interface suggestions there, which wouldn't get to the heart of the matter. I know there is a problem with it, but I can't see it because I'm too close. Would anyone object to having a thread like this here? I really need some advice from designers.

[Hiro_Antagonist]

What I'd like to do is examine an Indie RPG like Avernium and figure out what makes it successful in terms of its design. Then I'd like people to look at my RPG and tell me what it needs to make it succeed. I've thought of submitting it to the Feedback section, but you mainly get bug reports or interface suggestions there, which wouldn't get to the heart of the matter. I know there is a problem with it, but I can't see it because I'm too close. Would anyone object to having a thread like this here? I really need some advice from designers.
Well, if you can get people to actually download/try your game, you'll get no shortage of design advice if you want it. =)

The hard part is simply trying to get people interested in downloading/trying it. I know there are a number of RPG fans around, so you'll likely get responses from some people.

I definitely say go ahead and post, and try to include screenshots and whatever else you can do to get people motivated.

-Hiro_Antagonist

[Pallav Nawani]

Sure, go ahead and post it here. If moderators don't like it, they will move it to some other place, that's what they are (not) paid to do anyway :D . I love RPGs and I would be most happy to try yours out, and offer advice if I can :)

[wazoo]

Ditto...I love an RPG as well! Bring it on.

[Davaris]

Excellent. :) I get tons of people downloading it, but few sales. I've also had lots of feedback on interface issues and minor features. Those changes have helped sales, but not as much as I'd like. So I figure the problem is probably with the design.

At the moment I'm halfway through adding a slick new interface, so as soon as thats done I'll post it here. It shouldn't be more than a week or so. :)

[whisperstorm]

Hint: if you want to get tons of ppl buying it -- set up a cliffhanger in the free version of the game - such that if you want to know what happens next to this character you just created 3 levels ago.

[rioka]

Apart from what whisperstorm suggested, another factor would be how much time and effort the player put into the demo game. Spiderweb Software has this manner of making massive demos that players can experience. If the demo sucked up a good amount of time in your life plus left you at a cliffhanger, there's very few who can just let that go. I know I wouldn't... ^_^

[Davaris]

Spiderweb Software has this manner of making massive demos that players can experience

So how large are their games outside the demo areas? Are they the same size as the demo or are they much larger. I've never played a Spiderweb game long enough to find out, as I get bored with the endless dungeon crawling.

[rioka]

I've never played a Spiderweb game long enough to find out, as I get bored with the endless dungeon crawling. Same here but from what I've read around all his interviews and whatnot at his site (http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/otherpg.html), he usually puts in from 1/5th to 1/3rd of the game in his demo. How this relates to the full version... well, in one of his interviews about Nethergate, someone asked about the average gaming time it has to offer and he replied,

Spiderweb Sof: Right now, I can't be sure, since nobody has ever gotten to the end.
Spiderweb Sof: Based on a simple extrapolative process,
Spiderweb Sof: We believe that someone can finish it in between 4 and 5 thousand hours of play.
Spiderweb Sof: Ha ha.
Spiderweb Sof: Just kidding.
Spiderweb Sof: Hmmm. That's a toughie.
Spiderweb Sof: Depends on how many of the multitudes of side quests and little adventures you go on.
Spiderweb Sof: If you blazed straight to the end,
Spiderweb Sof: Probably between 70 hours,
Spiderweb Sof: and 5 thousand hours.

[Cartman]

Maybe a little off subject. For anyone working on an RPG, I think this is always a good read:

The Grand List Of Console Role Playing Game Clichés (http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html)

[Davaris]

he usually puts in from 1/5th to 1/3rd of the game in his demo

It's as I thought. Spiderweb games are huge.

My preference is for smaller games like Fallout. When I finished Fallout it left me wanting more. Fallout 2 was 50% bigger, but it went on too long and I got bored.

Maybe a little off subject. For anyone working on an RPG, I think this is always a good read:

Heh! If those clichés worked for those big games companies perhaps they will work for me. :)

[exploreRPG]

I too am a Fallout fan..

I'm working hard on a rpg world and trying to decide on which elements are the most intriguing for players. I suspect the story, description and presentation of the tasks at hand keep players interested.. I've read that the GM should offer small rewards to keep the players wanting to achieve.

I am interested in hearing about what types of puzzle, side-treks, and mini games get your interest?

Tye

[Pallav Nawani]

I too am a Fallout fan..
I'm working hard on a rpg world and trying to decide on which elements are the most intriguing for players. I suspect the story, description and presentation of the tasks at hand keep players interested..
Good gameplay mechanics is the most important, and of the gameplay mechanics, Good combat is probably the most important part of an RPG.
IMO-YMMV

Whether to include puzzles or not in an RPG is an important design decision. You should either:
(a) Keep your game almost entirely puzzle free, so that the action rpg player crowd can play your game.
(b) Include lots of clever puzzles in the game, so the hardcore - puzzle solving rpg players will love it. But then action rpg players will not touch your game.

Don't try to do both.
Again, IMO-YMMV.

Pallav

[Anthony Flack]

Don't try to do both.


That's good advice there. To reiterate:

Do not try to include lots of clever puzzles, while keeping your game puzzle-free. You'll cause a paradox.

[lexaloffle]

Do not try to include lots of clever puzzles, while keeping your game puzzle-free. You'll cause a paradox.
That's right. And as anything can be deduced from a contradiction (due to reductio ad absurdum), it will be the end of the indie industry as we know it. Arcadelab will become a portal, Mountain King will make a bejeweled game, Retro 64 will start doing clones of its own games, and Cletus Clay will have a mouse control option.

[soniCron]

OH. DEAR. GOD!! It's already happened!

[Pallav Nawani]

That's good advice there. To reiterate:
Do not try to include lots of clever puzzles, while keeping your game puzzle-free. You'll cause a paradox.
What I meant was: Don't try to tread a middle path. Either have no puzzles, or have lots of them.