When starting out

[Leper]

I'm currently starting my journey on game development. Well, I cant do graphics for crap so I plan on outsourcing graphic development to a 3rd party. Everything else I can take care of.

What I'm trying to find out is what is the best game toolkit for a newbie developer?

I have history with BASIC (from Coco 3), GWBasic (from MS-DOS) and QBasic (when Windows 3.1 was out) and nwScript (never winter nights c++ based scripting engine)

All languages I learned fairly well, but of course, I would need plenty of tutorials and community support to design a good game.

I plan on designing a game.. But I'm not sure which toolkit to use..

There's Game Maker 6.1, I currently have and have used for a few dinky games.. But it doesnt have that much community support.

So I have a good history with BASIC, so I'd like to use a basic-driven program.

Blitz? DarkBASIC?

Also, something I could let people submit their high-scores to a website.. And maybe something that I could design a cool level editor with that people could use, etc..

Whats your thoughts?

[revve]

I would suggest you go with BlitzMax, since it's very BASIC-ish and you seem to already have experience with it. I wouldn't recommend you learn more than one thing at a time (either a new language to how to make a game). Blitz seems to be fairly powerful (people on this forum made a couple of nice games with it), and I would guess it has a low-ish learning curve.

If you know C/C++, I would personally recommend PTK (it's developer is active on this forum, and it has a proven track record). I'd also like to mention Torque 2D. There's plenty of topics (heated discussions) about T2D, I suggest you do a search.

[Leper]

I would suggest you go with BlitzMax, since it's very BASIC-ish and you seem to already have experience with it. I wouldn't recommend you learn more than one thing at a time (either a new language to how to make a game). Blitz seems to be fairly powerful (people on this forum made a couple of nice games with it), and I would guess it has a low-ish learning curve.

If you know C/C++, I would personally recommend PTK (it's developer is active on this forum, and it has a proven track record). I'd also like to mention Torque 2D. There's plenty of topics (heated discussions) about T2D, I suggest you do a search.


I dont necessarily know C++ but I know the basics of C++

Since nwscript had its very own commands for everything, but everyone said it had the same structure as C++.

So basically I think I'll try to go with BASIC.. but I might check the PTK and the T2D too.

[revve]

The best advice I really can give you is to get the evaluation versions of all the tools you are looking at (PTK and BlitzMax in this case, since T2D doesn't have an eval). Play with them and get the one you like the most.

[Leper]

The best advice I really can give you is to get the evaluation versions of all the tools you are looking at (PTK and BlitzMax in this case, since T2D doesn't have an eval). Play with them and get the one you like the most.


Well, T2D looks by far the best.. Considering PTK is 4,000!?!??! lol thats way too much for a pro license?


I do understand C++ code generally..

void function() // (double slashes were used for commenting on nwn)
{

blah blah(); // run function
blagh blagh(); // run another function
nblah == 0; // set integer

if (nblah !=0) // start bogus if
{
blah this;
blah that(blah blah(blah blah()));
nblah == 1;
} // end if

} // end function



I know that might not look entirely right, but if I read a few docs and tutorials I feel I would catch on quickly.. because nwscript was basically like C++ and I knew it almost like the back of my hand not too long ago.
Well, I was reading the code at PTK that they had and it all seemed very easily understandable from my nwscript days.. So I do feel comfident that I could code with PTK and T2D.

[revve]

With PTK, the pro license is only if your income is over $250 000. You only need the $215 license if it is under that. Remember $250 000 is over 12 500 copies of your game sold (assuming the standard $20 price). The pseodocode you posted is mostly what you need. You can download an entire game written with PTK (with source) as an example at http://www.phelios.com/ptk/gameengine/arkanoid.zip.

I haven't used any of the Blitz products myself yet, but I'm sure you can't go wrong with any of the three discussed here.

[luggage]

I seriously wouldn't consider going with T2D at the moment. just too much to get your head around when starting out.

I'd go with Blitz3D or BlitzMax - everything you need and you can be up and running in seconds.

[Leper]

I seriously wouldn't consider going with T2D at the moment. just too much to get your head around when starting out.

I'd go with Blitz3D or BlitzMax - everything you need and you can be up and running in seconds.

T2D looks very nice.. I dont understand why its called an adoptal release though.

[BlueWaldo]

Depending on what type of game you are going to make I think Macromedia Flash is a good way for someone to start making games. You have to be a little more disciplined with Flash as it is very easy to write spaghetti code, but it makes it very easy to manipulate graphics. I really liked that because I didn’t want to spend too much time writing code to handle graphics I knew I was going to replace. And it makes it much easier to put text on the screen. Something that can be hard with c++. The real cool thing, of course, is that you can play your game from a website.

[Leper]

Well problem I found with Torque 2D is I didnt see any easy documentation. No tutorials, no forums, nothing..

Found the same thing with PTK..

BlitzMax looks great, but it looks like you've got to bust out with a ton of clumsy code (similar to DarkBASIC)

Torque 2D comes with external tools and editors which really raises my attention. But again, how am I suppose to learn it without any Tutorials? All I saw were docs explaining commands and nothing else.

[luggage]

you don't have to write a ton of code with blitzmax do you? I haven't looked at it much as I used Blitz3D for one of my projects and that only takes a line or two to get going.

[Leper]

you don't have to write a ton of code with blitzmax do you? I haven't looked at it much as I used Blitz3D for one of my projects and that only takes a line or two to get going.

You only needed a line or two do design something in Blitz3D? May I ask how you did it then? lol

[revve]

I have a PTK and T2D license. When you buy T2D, you get a very, very, very, very nice tutorial (PDF) that shows you exactly how to make a side-scroller. They provide you with the graphics, and the tutorial is a bit incomplete (they promised an update in a new release, I believe), but it's all you really need. It shows you all the concepts you need, and at the end if it, you have a pretty nice game (it's the side scroller they demo on the T2D site).

PTK has a lot less documentation - in fact, you pretty much only have the PTK C++ .h files to use as reference (and the slightly incomplete reference on the PTK site). PTK is really easy to learn and use if you are familiar enough with C. If you are not an experienced C coder, I'd say you shouldn't bother with it, unless you like pain. T2D much more beginner friendly by comparison, and it does have a lot of documentation that is completely hidden (and only accessible to registered owners). GarageGames are busy with a new project to revamp all the Torque documentation. I understand it is a Wiki based site called TDN (Torque Documentation Network).

I'd still like to stress, however, that since you are familiar with the BASIC language, you should really consider a product that uses that language. It'll just mean less frustrations for you when learning everything.

[luggage]

Not sure what you mean. It only takes a couple of lines to get going. It can't get much easier - no matter which engine you choose you're going to have to write a lot of code. I think Blitz gives new developers a quick track into actually writing a game.

[Leper]

Not sure what you mean. It only takes a couple of lines to get going. It can't get much easier - no matter which engine you choose you're going to have to write a lot of code. I think Blitz gives new developers a quick track into actually writing a game.

I understand that coding is necessary.. but T2D Comes with a gui map editor, particle editor, etc. Blitz? What does blitz come with other than an IDE (similar to DarkBASIC) where you would have to code your map editor, and load up all the sprites and program whre you want them etc.

[Anlino]

http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=4365 Some questions from me about T2D. Also visit the website, Garagegames.com (http://ww.garagegames.com) , for a friendly community that is answering your questions fast and gladly.

Something that hasn't been mentioned is a upcoming language, called Cobra.

Cobra on Codersworkshop.com:
http://www.codersworkshop.com/viewproduct.php?id=24

Haven't been to much discussions around it at the forums, but i believe that it is something very exciting, and that it will be able to compete with Blitz and DarkBasic, When it is released. A book about it is currently being written, and the book is said to at least be over 1000 pages. A lot of sleepless nights. After some digging, i found out that the following will be in the book:

- 2D Side-Scroller with jumping, falling, moving platforms, etc.
The game is called "Amroth Callo: Digital Equalizer" and it's the next generation of the game that I did for the PureBasic Book (Migz)

- 3D Multiplayer game
This game is called "Scillinders" (so far) and the plan is kind of a mix between the original Cyberstrike game and Tribes.

- ISO Game (if we given authorization to do it by the publisher )
This game is a robot game called, erm..."Robots" (so far). There'll be hiding behind objects, pushing objects, fights against other robots, etc...

To me, this is interesting.

[Bmc]

i used flash if i where you. it couldn't be any easier especialliy if you have prior experience with another language plus you don't have to worry about any smaller details that you do in c/c++

[Leper]

i used flash if i where you. it couldn't be any easier especialliy if you have prior experience with another language plus you don't have to worry about any smaller details that you do in c/c++


Isnt macromedia flash like a ton of money?

[Bmc]

Isnt macromedia flash like a ton of money?

no it's 700 us for the newest but im sure you can find an older version on Ebay for much less.

either Mx or Mx 2004 would do you good.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MACROMEDIA-FLASH-MX-2004-NEW-for-PC-or-MAC_W0QQitemZ7182468248QQcategoryZ80315QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

[Nauris]

You gain access to to T2D forums once you buy a license. Forums are private since lots of source code is posted around.

[TimS]

Just another opinion for the pile...

T2D is good stuff, but I wouldn't recommend it for those not familiar with C or C++... If you use it, you will end up wanting to change something in the engine, and while the code is very nicely commented (esp. the T2D specific parts) you'll still want a firm grounding in the language before you go tearing into its belly.

As for:
T2D looks very nice.. I dont understand why its called an adoptal release though.

The E.A. tag is just to warn folks that the engine still has some issues AND that it isn't feature-complete as far as THEY are concerned. They are adding a lot of significant things for the coming releases, and I think they just wanted to keep justified complaints down by effectively calling it a beta.

Also, something I could let people submit their high-scores to a website.. And maybe something that I could design a cool level editor with that people could use, etc..

This I don't think you'll find as a built-in feature of any game engine... (maybe PopCap... haven't looked at theirs yet). From what I've seen and heard and experienced I think I'll have to add myself to the list of those suggesting BlitzMax.

Good luck to ya! :D

-Tim

[BlueWaldo]

Isnt macromedia flash like a ton of money?

If your a student you can get a cheaper version, and you can download a demo that is good for 30 days to see if you like it.

[Anatoly]

I join in recomending Blitz 3D or BlitzMAX because they really offer value for money.
Also, because you have a history in Basic, it will be easy to understand (Especcially Blitz3D!).
DarkBASIC is a rip off!

[ManuelMarino]

Leper, if you need help with audio, let me know! I would be glad to lend an hand...

[gosub]

I have history with BASIC (from Coco 3)

Hi fellow Coco3 programmer! Maybe you remember my articles in the Rainbow Magazine? Or these: http://gosub.com/Jeremy/CocoVideoGames.htm

Ok, my Advice is to stay away from C++ (and, of course assembly language). That's only because you are still getting started. If you were a C++ expert, I'd say go for it. I'm using C# and DirectX, but that's probably a little too low level for someone starting out. You'll spend a lot of time writing code that would be included in one of the above mentioned frameworks. OTOH, if you want to learn C# it's a great way to learn. If you do go the C# route (not that I'm recommending it), here's something to get you started: http://gosub.com/OpenSource/DirectXControl/DirectXControl.htm

-Jeremy

[Leper]

Leper, if you need help with audio, let me know! I would be glad to lend an hand...

Hey! I may need some help with sound effects as I haven't really done much Sound FX before. Of course, I can handle music and programming (with learning)

[Gnatinator]

If you are just starting out, now would be an excellent time to just check out and experiment with as many tool sets and development environments as possible. Most are either free or come with evaluation versions, so there is nothing stopping you.

At the end of the day, nobody is going to care what you made your game with. Use whatever works best for you.

[Leper]

If you are just starting out, now would be an excellent time to just check out and experiment with as many tool sets and development environments as possible. Most are either free or come with evaluation versions, so there is nothing stopping you.

At the end of the day, nobody is going to care what you made your game with. Use whatever works best for you.

Its more about which one is easiest to learn, and has the most power :)