Nintendo Revolution controller revealed. You have to see it to believe it.

[Hiro_Antagonist]

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/15/commentary/game_over/revolution/

Wow.

It's.... something. We'll have to wait and see how it pans out, but honestly, I trust Nintendo.

What I don't understand is how we're going to play those gamecube games on that... thing. Or are we going to be forced to plug in our gamecube controllers to play gamecube games on it?

-Hiro_Antagonist

[Bmc]

very strange, it will definetly be akward playing games with that for awhile.... for me at least.

[Ryan Clark]

Wow indeed! I just read this on Slashdot, and I was floored. I'm pretty excited to give it a whirl though... and it brings us one step closer to VR (it sounds like the perfect VR controller).

What I don't understand is how we're going to play those gamecube games on that... thing.
I read that you'll be able to dock it with other controller types, including traditional gamecube-style controllers.

So really, there's no downside... you can still use it as an oldschool controller, but you can also use it for freaky new things :)

[z3lda]

Anyone been on on an airplane recently? Notice the NES game system now included with the plane ride along with free movies. The revolution controller looks almost identical to the controller/remote used on airplanes, with attachments of course :).

[Bmc]

I hope they launch with a wicked new Wario Ware game. I love those and can only imagine the types of cool mini-games it would have.

[Sillysoft]

Check out this video showing some sample scenarios of its use (press play in the flash box below the top picture):
http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/2005/09/16/443527.html

It looks like it could be very cool...

[Bmc]

Check out this video showing some sample scenarios of its use (press play in the flash box below the top picture):
http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/2005/09/16/443527.html

It looks like it could be very cool...

i think playing a sword fighting game like that would be fun albeit dangerous to your furniture

[Sharpfish]

Well the console got me excited - but the posibilites with this new control style are amazing.. if the software guys pull of the intended eas of use of it. Wow.. a one handed controller. That truly is thinking outside the box (one hand free for tea/beer/other-"activity") while actually improving immersive game control. And no more RSI style pains from click/click/click on buttons and dpads. I hope it delivers its promise! :)

+:
It is the standard controller (rather than a purchasable add-on novelty ala superscope/powerglove) so ALL games will have to use it, and use it well.

-:
It is on Nintendos console, and as much as I like Nintendo (got a gamecube) I am not certain if they can attract enough devs to their console without the might of Sony and MS. So potentially it could fail where Ps3 and X360 simply won't due to investment.

Well done big N. Keep on innovating.

[Nexic]

I'm I the only one who is far from amazed with this controller? I thought it was going to be something truely cool, not a standarn remote control. How on earth is limiting you to one hand going to make gaming easier? I just seems like it's gonna hurt your hand....

[lakibuk]

I thought it was going to be something truely cool, not a standarn remote control. I think this controller is as non-standard as it can be in commercial gaming systems. Imagine a FPS where you don't have to aim using the analog stick (which makes FPS games a pain on consoles) but aim directly at the screen, like with a lightgun.

[Ricardo C]

While no doubt Nintendo's own games will be designed to take full advantage of the new design, I rally don't see that many third-party developers spending the money on it instead of creating more standard fare that will play (and sell) on all three systems.

I like the potential applications, but I don't think it'll set the world on fire.

ETA: On second thought...

Imagine an adventure game in which you use the directional pad to walk around, wave the controller around to move your PoV, and use the primary fire button to enter "manipulation mode", with the controller serving as your character's virtual arm, in order to grab and examine items.

Ok, I'm back to being excited about this :D

[Sharpfish]

I'm I the only one who is far from amazed with this controller? I thought it was going to be something truely cool, not a standarn remote control. How on earth is limiting you to one hand going to make gaming easier? I just seems like it's gonna hurt your hand....

I take it you didn't miss the part about the sensors? I.E you move your arm instead of just your wrist/fingers (makes me wonder about precise movements for certain games.. but whatever). If you can truly wave it like a sword and it translates to good controls of the weapon in game (for example) then that is great and I also say it is great from a "consumer" point of view - you can see nintendo are really trying to break down the entry level to videogames without (imo) just hampering/nerfing/dumbing down control systems but by approaching them differently.

Afterall it is not as if this new controller is just a smaller version of the crappy Phillips CDi™ controller from the early 90s. That WAS just a remote control and badly designed. The Nintendo controller would have been a very bad design had it not had sensors of course.. using just your thumb and a trigger finger to move and interact = bad - add in that total "sensing" control and it should work out great. I always have hope because hope is all we have that small incremental changes will get us closer to the goal of better control and interfaces to games rather than just graphics on a screen (yes I am a VR nut and would quite happily exist purely in a computer based system as a bunch of electrons and a memorydump if it was possible) ;)

[cliffski]

I'm I the only one who is far from amazed with this controller? I thought it was going to be something truely cool, not a standarn remote control. How on earth is limiting you to one hand going to make gaming easier? I just seems like it's gonna hurt your hand....

Agreed 100%. its not exactly a virtual reality body suit. its a flipping TV remote. big deal.

[svero]

I donno... sure seems weird. Hard to imagine it catching on at this point, and the idea of 3rd party software support for games that are very hard if not impossible to port to other systems seems unikely as well. I guess I'll wait and see. Nintendo's always impressed me in the past. Perhaps there's more to this than meets the eye.

[luggage]

I'm hoping there's going to be a standard controller as well. That system just won't work with certain types of games - or they will be very difficult to play. To me it just looks like a novelty controller.

[Nauris]

Its Nintendo. What kind of 3rd party support are you talking about?

[Nexic]

Yes I read about the sensors, but having to pivot your entire arm/wrist to aim in an fps? Give me a break, no one could play for more than 10 minutes at a time as their arm/wrist would ache like hell.

It might be fun for a while, but it's no where near practical to be used as a standard gaming device...

[Fry Crayola]

Never used a mouse, Nexic? The motions required for an FPS are the same as that. You just rest your hands on your lap, as you would with any controller. Analogue stick in the left hand, remote in the right, pointing at the screen and whizzing around.

1up.com (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143782) have a great piece on it.

[Chris Evans]

I was hoping for a LCD-based controller, which could be customized from game to game by developers. Oh well...

I wonder how practical this controller is going to be for most games. It's kind of like using EyeToy for every single game. Regardless, I'm pretty excited just for the simple fact that it's different. The Xbox360/PS3 seem like the same old, same old. At least with the Nintendo Revolution there's a possibility for a distinct new gaming experience. I'm also a fan of VR devices, so I would like to see consoles start heading toward that direction.

[Mickey Crocker]

I am extremely excited about this!

Check out the video http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651334p1.html

I have been so bored with console gaming lately and havn't been excited about getting (or even bothered getting) a new console since the N64 came out. I thought it was because I was getting older and just out growing it. Now I know I was wrong, Nintendo just fixed that. :D

[Ricardo C]

Just wait until a Star Wars game comes out that lets gamers use the Revolution controller to control a lightsaber, and watch the controller sell itself.

[Nexic]

Never used a mouse, Nexic? The motions required for an FPS are the same as that. You just rest your hands on your lap, as you would with any controller. Analogue stick in the left hand, remote in the right, pointing at the screen and whizzing around.

Yeh its just like a mouse... Aside from the fact a mouse only uses one rotational axis on your wrist, this will use 3. Let's also not forget that your mouse hand is always supported, with this it controlleryou will have to use the muscles in your wrist to hold your hand up constantly as otherwise your hand will rub with whatever surface you choose to rest it on.

I could see it as working well with very particular games (like Starwars light saber duels) but for most games it will be completely unplayable for more than 15 minutes in a row.

[ERoberts]

I was hoping for a LCD-based controller, which could be customized from game to game by developers.

Worst idea ever!

[Vectrex]

I think it's brilliant, but then I hate console controllers with a passion and haven't bought one since playstation 1 (and the only game I had was wipeout). FPS, RTS and platform games with a dinky little analog joystick? Now THAT'S a bad idea.
I'm so glad they did this, xbox360 and ps3 make me melt with boredom and cringe when they lie for the millionth time.

[soniCron]

I don't see what everyone's problem is, and I'm quite surprised so many of you are less than impressed. Perhaps you're not understanding it fully?

Do you get tired walking around with a flashlight in real life? I'm not at all concerned that the typical sports-frenzied fan wouldn't think twice about "having to actually swing." I'm thinking the Lazy Bug has bitten a few of you. ;)
Still features regular buttons, regular D-pad, and regular analog stick, so gaming ports from other systems won't be impossible. (And just as familiar to you less enthusiastic group.)
While the people were so animated in the video, I highly doubt you'd have to move so wildly. It very well may allow sensetivity adjustment so you can just set your arm in your lap and flick your wrist, not unlike a mouse.
It is not "just" a TV remote! If that's what you think, watch the video again! (http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/2005/09/16/443527.html)

I don't know about you, but any hint of an idea that I was going to buy an Xbox 360 has flown out the window, and I'll honestly be surprised if this doesn't penetrate a much wider audience than the typically hardcore console gamer. I'm a Nintendo man, once again! :)

I can't wait for the next-NEXT Zelda... :D

[Martoon]

I'm a little confused about how the technology works. They refer to "internal sensors that detect your hand motion", which suggests accelerometers (MEMS accelerometers are quite accurate and dirt cheap now), but trying to track absolute position and orientation via polling accelerometers gives you big problems with drift. It may be that drift wouldn't matter for the way they're used for games, but then they say you can just point at things on the screen and shoot. How would they accomplish this? I'm sure it isn't raster focusing (like a lightgun), since that doesn't work with LCD screens, and LCDs are way to common now to ignore.

[soniCron]

I'm a little confused about how the technology works. IGN has a little hands-on article (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html) about it, and they discuss what capablities it has.

[Martoon]

IGN has a little hands-on article (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html) about it, and they discuss what capablities it has.
From the article: "the sensor is connected like a flat antenna under the display."

Interesting. I'd almost think electromagnetic, except that the last place you'd want to put an EM sensor is directly underneath a picture tube.

Also, one thing they mentioned that hadn't occurred to me is that the controller can be turned sideways, and used like a classic NES pad. So it might not be too bad for classic style games.

[luggage]

It's not like moving a mouse though - unless you requently lift the mouse to point at something on the wall.

I'm sure it will work fine for particular types of games but others.... no.. sorry. Just can't see how it would work. One of the games I play the most is a football (soccer) game. It requires every button on a PS2 pad, and to combine those buttons. It just would work on that controller without the game having huge chunks cut away.

And in the video it shows someone 'controlling' a platform game. Well, they flick the unit to make what I presume is a jump. But how will that work for a full game? Think how many buttons you press and actions you perform when action gets tense. Now translate that to you having to flick about with the controller and with fewer buttons. I'm sure they'll make some lovely little novelty games but I don't think it's going to be the next big thing.

I'm hoping it's nothing more than a fancy, extra function, dvd controller and there's some real pads on the way.

[DangerCode]

I'm I the only one who is far from amazed with this controller?

No, and despite claims to the contrary I think I am understanding it fully. :D

I'll have to play some games with it before passing final judgement, but to me it seems like a cool gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless.

I enjoy playing games while laying back on the couch. I don't think want to swing a device maddly for hours on end.

But who knows, my mind may change once I play around with it for a while.

[Martoon]

I think that Nintendo is doing the best thing they can do in their situation. Looking at their market share compared to Sony's, they don't stand a chance going head to head with Sony with a similar product, and they know it. It's the same reason most developers on these forums aren't making FPS's to compete with Id.

Some people in this thread have said they wouldn't like the Revolution controller because they couldn't effectively play the same kind of games they play now. But the thing is, those people probably wouldn't be buying a Revolution anyway (if they bought a next-gen console, it would likely be a PS3), so Nintendo isn't losing them as customers. I think there will be some novel, original games designed around the Revolution controller, and I'm guessing that some will have staying power and some won't. Remember, Nintendo was the first to popularize the gamepad, and that seemed a little strange to gamers used to a joystick ("What? You move with your thumb?"), but it has certainly been successful.

Nintendo has clearly lost the console wars to Sony in terms of standard consoles, so they can either give up on (non-handheld) console hardware entirely, or try something outside the box to attempt to hold a smaller market share of people interested in something a little different. Apparently, they've opted for the latter.

[soniCron]

Remember, Nintendo was the first to popularize the gamepad, and that seemed a little strange to gamers used to a joystick ("What? You move with your thumb?"), but it has certainly been successful. Don't forget they also "invented" the analog thubmstick and triggers on a gamepad - something nobody else has chosen to "revolutionize" any further. (No pun intended! ;))


Nintendo has clearly lost the console wars to Sony in terms of standard consoles, so they can either give up on (non-handheld) console hardware entirely, or try something outside the box to attempt to hold a smaller market share of people interested in something a little different. Apparently, they've opted for the latter. I'd be tempted to disagree with you, about the market being smaller. You have to understand who already owns consoles right now: "gamers." In our business, we should be the first to recognize there is a huge demographic that don't want the fiddle and fuss of the commonly inaccessible systems and games. I am speaking, of course, of the "casual" audience. (And I mean that more literally than our common definition of "casual" as indie developers.)

So, rather than learning arbitrary button configurations and placement, I see this very natural input style to be extremely accessible to both new gamers and old. In addition, by the looks of the controller (looking beyond the "revolutionary" part), I can see a great entry into the casual gaming world - I see there's a power switch on the controller itself. Since the system obviously has "soft" power, I suspect there may be either a "hibernation" function, or better, a requirement that all games save their data and immediately shut off.

You can't get much more casual than this.

Are these gimmicks? I don't think so. Understand that comparing current games (such as that scene of the woman playing the classic Mario platformer that I assume was being emulated) with this new input style is counter-productive. You see, these games were designed to be played with buttons. They, just like first person shooters on current consoles, would be a mere shadow of what they're supposed to be on their intended platform.*

Don't write off the entire system because it's less than ideal for a few applications when it opens the doors of accessibility to so many more in such a big way.

*Fortunately, the controller appears to be capable of being held sideways and used as a traditional NES input device. Unfortunately, this only further cements my thought that their download service will only feature classic NES games, and not their superior SNES brothers. Only time will tell, however.

[Mickey Crocker]

Also I would like to point out...

I keep hearing people saying (not just here) that this new controller may be good for some games but not all. Well, the way I look at it is it isn't suppose to be, you can look at the same thing backwards. PS and XBox controllers may be good for some games, but not the Nintendo Revolution games!

It's more about creating a whole new style of gaming and changing the way we play the games and not just the way they look. I'm tired of seeing the same gameplay over and over. Hell, if I have to give up a few games to have a whole new experience in gaming, then I am all for it.

One thing can be said about this, the Nintendo Revolution will be able to play PS and XBox style games, but PS and Xbox won't be able to play Nintendo Revolution style games.

[PoV]

I love how the TV remote doubles as Nunchaku.

Thumbs up to Nintendo. I actually wasn't expecting to be impressed, with all the hype surrounding it. I'm waving my TV remote around right now in anticipation. :D

[C.S.Brewer]

I wasn't expecting much either, and wasn't expecting to hear about it so soon.
can't wait to try it out.

nintendo just makes me happy. It's kinda like christmas.

I just hope the positioning works better than the powerglove!

[Bmc]

I wasn't expecting much either, and wasn't expecting to hear about it so soon.
can't wait to try it out.

nintendo just makes me happy. It's kinda like christmas.

I just hope the positioning works better than the powerglove!

being that it's (around)20 years later I'm sure it will :)

[Hiro_Antagonist]

I'm sad. I had a whole nice, articulate post written when I accidently hit the back button on my mouse. bye bye post.

Summarized versions of what I said:

1) For those of you who think this is just a remote control, you have very much missed the point of what makes this device amazing. My understanding is that the single largest factor about this thing is its positional awareness. It knows when it's moved on the X, Y, and Z axes, and it knows when it's *rotated* around said axes. That's 6-dimensional/axis control. That's entirely unprecidented in the gaming world. The closest we've seen is the mouse (fast and high-precision 2D, functionally random access) and the analog stick (slow and low-precision 2D for most things, not at all random access.) We're now looking at 3D + 3 axis control of fast (and possibly high-precision) control.

2) If you only use your console for soccer/football, then this might not be the console for you. The revolution might very well have a hard time with that experience just like every console every made has a hard time doing what the Revolution will be able to do.

3) Nintendo no longer has any interest competing in the hardware wars. They don't care about rendering umpteen million polygons. Their stated priorities (for the last couple of years) are: Low price point, high accessibility, style, usability, experimentation, and most importantly, FUN. Yes, more polygons are worth something, but they're supposed to me a means to an end for FUN. Instead, they end up generally just appealing to the hard-core gamer. I think Nintendo is going after the masses (again).

4) Lastly, I would like to point out that I took my DS to a retreat of a few game instustry devs/producers, none of which had previous hands on experience with the DS or PSP. The PSP someone else brought was barely touched. My and my girlfriends' DS's were in constant use the entire weekend. If I put in the right games (certain warioware games/toys, Nintendogs, etc.) and put them in front of people, they smiled. SMILED! EVERY TIME! I can't point to any other device/game that exists and say that it will make people smile that try it. Everyone at that retreat was skeptical. Everyone become a convert. Can you name anything else that will deterministically make people SMILE?

That's what can happen when you become focused on having fun in new ways rather than just pushing more polygons. I've always been a proponent of expanding the borders of games, and Nintendo is easily the biggest company to do it and has broken more barriers over its years than anyone else. Period.

5) I'd like to point out that while the other two systems are experiencing price hikes in their games because they're becoming more expensive to produce (more polygons! higher-rez textures! more voice acting!), I haven't heard that apply to the Revolution. And we all know the Revolution console will be priced far below the others.

-Hiro_Antagonist

[Martoon]

It knows when it's moved on the X, Y, and Z axes, and it knows when it's *rotated* around said axes. That's 6-dimensional/axis control.
I just can't figure out how they're doing this in a cost-effective way. My day job is lead developer at a VR center. For decent 6DOF electromagnetic motion trackers, we pay around $6000 for a 4-receiver tracker, or $2500 for a 2-receiver (and that isn't wireless). And yes, I realize a mass-produced console could do things cheaper, but there's still basic components in there that wouldn't be that much cheaper mass produced. From what I've read about the Revolution controllers, they seem to have true absolute positioning and orientation, which you just can't do cheap. I have no idea how they're doing this.

[Hiro_Antagonist]

From what I've read about the Revolution controllers, they seem to have true absolute positioning and orientation, which you just can't do cheap. I have no idea how they're doing this.
Just a theory, but perhaps they're taking a cue from optical mice and eyetoy and simply taking rapid camera images (from the doohicky on the front of the controller) and calculating deltas based on that?

If that's the case, it would mean that it could probably be 'confused' by a good many things, and extrememly rapid movement could be one of those things, but it would explain how basically off-the-shelf hardware with some really clever software could mostly accomplish the same trick.

I've also heard repeated speculation (long before the controller was revealed even) that the controller has some sort of gyroscope in it. I don't personally know how this would help, but that explanation has seemed to satisfy many people looking to know how it works at a high level.

Whatever the solution, I think the whole reason they've been so secretive is because it *is* a clever trick they're using that they don't want anyone to steal before they can capitalize on it.

-Hiro_Antagonist

[Bmc]

i'm sure it's prolly somewhat based off the same basic tech as wario ware twisted

[Chris Evans]

Read first-hand impressions from IGN:
http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html

After reading that, I'm pretty excited about the Revolution. Yes, certain games might not work well, but other games will have enormous potential that can provide a totally new gaming experience.

Like I said earlier, I'm glad Nintendo is doing something different. The PS3/Xbox 360 are mere CPU-upgrades of their predecessors. Aside from more CPU-cycles, Sony and Microsoft aren't giving developers any new tools to create better more immerse games. It's basically on the developer to come up with a new gaming experience and with budgets skyrocketing it's becoming less and less feasible.

Whereas Nintendo is doing more than just giving developers faster CPU cycles, they're actually changing up the input device. This is potentially a great new tool for developers and makes it far easier for them to give players a new gaming experience without having to push billions of polygons.

Hiro brought up a great example with the PSP and DS. The PSP looks very cool and sleek, but I've noticed the DS usually generates the most attention even with its inferior graphics. People are always clamoring to play my Nintendodogs. If Nintendo can capture the same spirit with the Revolution, I think they'll do just fine.

[Black Hydra]

This is proof that innovation in games isn't dead. Although there is a lot of crap, its nice to see that some innovative features are being put in the forefront not just showcased for a bunch of jaded game afficianado's.

I think Nintendo has always had the high point for innovation even if Sony has clearly had upper ground in profit.

[soniCron]

I think Nintendo has always had the high point for innovation even if Sony has clearly had upper ground in profit. Color me stupid, but I was always under the impression that Nintendo was far more profitable. Sony certainly has more market share, yes, but as far as I know, Nintendo has made a greater profit percentage than it's Japanese nemesis.

[tolik]

Imagine Revorution (JP doesn't pronounce L) controrrer with analog stick plugin and wifi support in tandem with Nintendo DS. One player swings things and another one navigates him using his Nintendo DS. This is just the way Nintendo makes fun out of players. Oh, don't forget to wire them for "charge-and-play" and you'll be looking like a pair of geeks.

Has ANYONE here played Miyamoto's Pac-Man Vs.?
http://www.nintendo.com/gamemini?gameid=m-Game-0000-1844

I've got GameCube and GBA. I've got the connectivity cable. I've never actually plugged them together... I even got BBA adapter, but I wasn't able to EVER use it for anything. Oh, and I've got no idea why I bought this ultrabig memory card. I'm missing Cube's point. I don't want to play yet-another-mario-sport-game. One day John Raptis will come here and we'll play 4 player Hamsterball & Super Monkey Ball using projector. That's why I'm still keeping it :D

I do remember 3D mouse concept from early 90s. It was doomed since it wasn't possible to precisely (I mean millimeter-perfect) navigate it in the 3D space at that time - people had to swing it quite intensively. Hand was getting tired quite quickly...
Seeing how people swing the thing in promovideo ties up with "snack" arcade-like gaming concept evolution Nintendo promotes. They are forcing people to play more smaller games and spend less time on each one of them. "No way, too much content for you. Bad, bad, gaming addict."
More smaller games in new genres = more freedom in quick development = less time developing games = more money.

Well, it's more fun at once. And since you are basically quite amazed when someone shows it, you'll sure get it. And get something fresh again. And again.

But is anyone here EyeToy addict? Are you actually replaying these games? Are you buying new games for your extra accessories (besides wheel and flight stick)?
Have you used your fishing rod or dance mat for more than couple of games?
Well, Nintendo DS really shows the power of a single stick working in a lot of games. They've got tilt inserted into several games. Light detector. Rumble.

Focus on 1st party development made a lot of companies to lose console wars...

Lots of things to think about. Is it good? Yup. Is it innovative? "Summing up" I would say. Are people conservative? Yup. Does it take a lot of PR and time to break consumer mind barrier? Yup.

Well, first community reaction to the thing was fine.

Do you remember the first reaction e.g. to N-Gage? OMG, PHONE GAMES SIDETALKING HAHA. If I would show couple photos of casual gaming producer holding my N-Gage, he would kill me ;-)

And oh well, someone could already start spreading rumours where vibration plug in will need to be plugged in...

[Black Hydra]

Well I can't speak for profit %, Dan, but Sony has had the upper hand in market share since the PS1. But since both Nintendo and Sony can stay in the black (unlike MS), I don't think either of them are sweating right now...

[Matthew]

Color me stupid, but I was always under the impression that Nintendo was far more profitable. Sony certainly has more market share, yes, but as far as I know, Nintendo has made a greater profit percentage than it's Japanese nemesis.

You're right. In fact, Nintendo was the only company out of the big three to post a profit last quarter, according to http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/28/news_6129939.html

[luggage]

I'm sure Nintendo have an advantage when it comes to quoting figures as they have a lot of generated income from the GBA.

[Hiro_Antagonist]

I'm sure Nintendo have an advantage when it comes to quoting figures as they have a lot of generated income from the GBA.
Not to mention Microsoft is willingly taking losses to establish itself as a major player.

-Hiro_Antagonist

[soniCron]

I'm sure Nintendo have an advantage when it comes to quoting figures as they have a lot of generated income from the GBA. And your point is...?

[luggage]

When you're quoting one company being more profitable than another maybe there's other things to take into account before you can judge consoles?

[soniCron]

When you're quoting one company being more profitable than another maybe there's other things to take into account before you can judge consoles? There was no judgement of consoles. Even if there was, there's no reason to ignore either company's handheld performance. Both handhelds and consoles are dedicated gaming platforms.

[luggage]

I can't see any reason to discuss profits of companies when discussing one companies controller.

[soniCron]

I can't see any reason to discuss profits of companies when discussing one companies controller. Perhaps you weren't following the thread? From Black Hydra's post:
I think Nintendo has always had the high point for innovation even if Sony has clearly had upper ground in profit.

[luggage]

Nevermind. Clearly we should all shoot off at a tangent and discuss Sony & Nintendo's profits in a thread about a controller because one person wrote one thing in half a sentence of a post. Each to their own I guess.

Anyway - to get it back on track...

This Nintendo controller... Isn't it great? Think of all the cool things they'll be able to do. I love Nintendo even more now.

[soniCron]

Nevermind. Clearly we should all shoot off at a tangent and discuss Sony & Nintendo's profits in a thread about a controller because one person wrote one thing in half a sentence of a post. Each to their own I guess. I think past fiscal performance is important when discussing this particular controller. The point is that Nintendo is willing to go out on a limb and try new and innovative things, while still keeping their head above the water. How do the two (profit and innovation) correlate?

You see, this isn't just any controller we're talking about. This controller puts the "revolution" in the Revolution. It is Nintendo's bet on this innovative input technology that is the reason we must consider their past innovations and financial successes.

Consider how the two have tackled their current hand held systems and similarly appear to be targeting their next generation consoles. Nintendo's highly successful DS appears, now, to be almost a testbed for the technology found in the Revolution's controller. Sony's PSP, on the other hand, has performed much worse than expected, and was nothing more than a bigger and badder offering to the hand held community, just like the Playstation 3.

You could consider that because Nintendo was already in the hand held market, they had the advantage of getting "upgraders." On the other hand, the PSP is not that much more than a miniaturized PS2, at home with all the PS2 ports they already know and love. So where are all the Sony fans now? Surely not putting their money where their mouth is. No, I don't think Nintendo's DS's success is because of the upgraders.

Sony's PSP is missing the mark in the hand held gaming community by being too big and too expensive - two no-no's of hand held gaming. Because the PSP breaks these unwritten rules, it makes itself inaccessible. Nintendo's DS, on the other hand, only better targets gamers and non-gamers alike making itself as accessible as possible by, among many other things, utilizing natural methods of input.

Each company's approach to hand held gaming are very similar and indicative of what these rivals are doing for their next systems. The Playstation 3 is going to be nothing more than the biggest and the baddest. But it will also carry a hefty price tag for the luxury of indulgence in such digital decadence. The Revolution, on the other hand, is going to be at a much lower price point, as well as lend itself to more natural input through its very innovative controller.

Sony will continue to cater to the hardcore gamer market, whereas Nintendo wants to hit upon the non- and casual-gamer markets. (Note that I am not using "casual" as we typically do in these forums.) Because of this, we can take note of each company's past successes with said strategies and form a much more educated guess about the future of the rivals' console offerings. And my money's on the Revolution.

[Robert Cummings]

I think personally, that you need to realise that it is entirely software and peripheral based.


At any point, sony can bring out a similar device for the ps3. They did so with the ngon controller. Then the dual nipple action. Yes.

It does boil down to sales at some point: if sony wanted to, they could seriously design and push out a controller like this in a matter of months and make it succeed: but I suspect they will make enough cash on the main console as it stands.

Although for sure, future consoles will be all slightly more controller-innovative from this day onwards.

[soniCron]

While I believe you're on the mark about software and input, you seem to be forgetting cost, which is a major factor in turning on non-gamers and those loyal to another brand. I would have nothing but ultimate confidence in their supremacy if Nintendo launched at $99 and halved the cost of all the games to around $35. They would move so many units they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. Of course, this is but a dream.

I've always hoped Nintendo (or any console manufacturer, for that matter) would bring back the $99 console price point and stop charging $50 for games "just because that's what we've always done." A cartridge is an order of magnitude more expensive to manufacture than a DVD is to press, and they know that.

While the $99 console price point is unrealistic, the publishers need to realize they're overcharging for games. $8 for a movie ticket and movies cost how much more to film, duplicate, and publicly show? $50 (and soon to be $60) for a game is unrealistic, and they'll realize that when Nintendo doesn't follow suit with everyone else's price hike during the next wave of console games.

But I digress...

[luggage]

Nintendo's highly successful DS appears,...Sony's PSP, on the other hand, has performed much worse than expected...Sony's PSP is missing the mark in the hand held gaming community by being too big and too expensive Because the PSP breaks these unwritten rules, it makes itself inaccessibleSo you're saying the DS is a success and the PSP isn't? Bit early to tell yet don't you think. I'd look here (http://www.charttrack.co.uk/?i=256&s=1111) for some figures on opening weeks sales here in the UK. Seems like Sony's decision wasn't such a no-no? Wouldn't it be better to let each console have at least a year before you ring the death bell's for one?

Let's say you look at each companies past? Sony has the PS1 and the PS2 - doesn't look too shoddy there. In fact - both of those were quite a big hit console wise wouldn't you say? That's a 100% success rate for their consoles. What if we throw in the 'success' that was the Gamecube? Or the Virtual Boy? Or the E-Card reader? Or the 64DD Drive? See how meaningless their past projects are?The Playstation 3 is going to be nothing more than the biggest and the baddest. But it will also carry a hefty price tag for the luxury of indulgence in such digital decadence. The Revolution, on the other hand, is going to be at a much lower price point, as well as lend itself to more natural input through its very innovative controller.That's a lot of presumptions there. Where the evidence of a hefty price tage? The Revolution's non-hefty price tage? The 'more natural' input? Correct me if I'm wrong but there's been no official word on pricing for either console and you've yet to try out this more natural input.

[luggage]

While I believe you're on the mark about software and input, you seem to be forgetting cost, which is a major factor in turning on non-gamers and those loyal to another brand. I would have nothing but ultimate confidence in their supremacy if Nintendo launched at $99 and halved the cost of all the games to around $35. They would move so many units they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. Of course, this is but a dream.Who knows what would happen if a next-gen console launched at $99. The company would have to take a big hit and hope the consumer doesn't it see it as a value brand.

I've always hoped Nintendo (or any console manufacturer, for that matter) would bring back the $99 console price point and stop charging $50 for games "just because that's what we've always done." A cartridge is an order of magnitude more expensive to manufacture than a DVD is to press, and they know that..This is naive. A cartridge costs more than a DVD so that means the DVD should be cheaper? Do you not think it might cost a tad more to make the actual stuff that goes on said cartidge\dvd?

While the $99 console price point is unrealistic, the publishers need to realize they're overcharging for games. $8 for a movie ticket and movies cost how much more to film, duplicate, and publicly show? $50 (and soon to be $60) for a game is unrealistic, and they'll realize that when Nintendo doesn't follow suit with everyone else's price hike during the next wave of console gamesAnother naive point of view. There are so many difference between the movie industry and game industry that the comparison is weak at best but still, let's soldier on with it.

Somebody in another thread reckoned a game should have 40 hours of play. 90 minutes for a film at $8 has you paying 0.88 cents a minute of non-interactive entertainment. Apply that to a 40 hours worth of play out of a game and you're looking at $211. $50 seems cheap don't you think? How about we take it further? What if you only got 10 hours of play from a title - that'd be $52 using the 0.88 cents per minute. Hey! That's pretty much what we pay now yet on average you get more than 10 hours of play out of a game. And check this - it's interactive!

The thing to remember is - this controller thing. It's just Nintendo's version of the spec war. This is just Nintendo's hype to try and grab a share of the market.

[soniCron]

So you're saying the DS is a success and the PSP isn't? Bit early to tell yet don't you think. I'd look here (http://www.charttrack.co.uk/?i=256&s=1111) for some figures on opening weeks sales here in the UK. Seems like Sony's decision wasn't such a no-no? For the rest of the world (which just so happens to be a much larger market), things were far more bleak for Sony. For the US launch, check this out (http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/31/technology/personaltech/psp_sales/), and for Japanese sales, check this out (http://www.codepoetsolutions.com/myth/dsvspsp.html).


Let's say you look at each companies past? Sony has the PS1 and the PS2 - doesn't look too shoddy there. In fact - both of those were quite a big hit console wise wouldn't you say? That's a 100% success rate for their consoles. What if we throw in the 'success' that was the Gamecube? Or the Virtual Boy? Or the E-Card reader? Or the 64DD Drive? See how meaningless their past projects are? Nintendo also had a 100% success rate with their entry consoles and are a far more mature game console manufacturer than anybody else in the business. Of course they'll have had their failures. However, because they have proved they are capable of innovating and staying afloat Recognizing the public's willingness to adopt unique styles of control with their DS, Nintendo's next system is far less likely to fail than you seem to think.


Where the evidence of a hefty price tage? The Revolution's non-hefty price tage? You've got me there. I'm basing this on anecdotal evidence and each company's say-so.


The 'more natural' input? ...you've yet to try out this more natural input. Arm and hand movements that are reflected in-game are more natural than any number of buttons or analog sticks could ever provide. As for it being a worthwhile implementation, I'm basing my assumption on reviewers' commentary after using the controllers.


Who knows what would happen if a next-gen console launched at $99. The company would have to take a big hit and hope the consumer doesn't it see it as a value brand. For what it's worth, the public has been more than willing to accept decreasing costs of electronics without viewing them as a sub-par or generally inferior.


Somebody in another thread reckoned a game should have 40 hours of play. 90 minutes for a film at $8 has you paying 0.88 cents a minute of non-interactive entertainment. Apply that to a 40 hours worth of play out of a game and you're looking at $211. $50 seems cheap don't you think? How about we take it further? What if you only got 10 hours of play from a title - that'd be $52 using the 0.88 cents per minute. Hey! That's pretty much what we pay now yet on average you get more than 10 hours of play out of a game. And check this - it's interactive! By that logic, books should cost somewhere in the hundreds!


The thing to remember is - this controller thing. It's just Nintendo's version of the spec war. This is just Nintendo's hype to try and grab a share of the market. That is your opinion. Mine, however, is more optimistic. I believe the device is not just another useless gimmick, but rather a new and innovative way to blend the barrier between ourselves and the virtual worlds in which we play. Of course, Pong was just a gimmick...

[soniCron]

Apparently they're going to release a secondary "normal" controller to be used for ports and retro Nintendo games. (Say, "Yay!" hardcore gamers!) (Full Article (http://www.revolutionreport.com/articles/read/101))

Foremost, Merrick attacked the question of controlling older games. Apparently Nintendo is “producing a classic-style expansion controller, based on traditional designs like the GameCube controller. It’s like a shell with a hole in the top into which you slot the freehand-style controller, and then you can play third-party ported games, and retro Nintendo games you’ve downloaded.”

[Anthony Flack]

I think it looks fantastic, and should offer hundreds of new, different, fun experiences. The fact that this is the primary controller will make all the difference; even if other manufacturers release copycats, they will only be gimmick controllers... Nintendo's controller is the primary one and all their first-party titles will use it. It also looks like, iPod-style, they have really taken a lot of time and trouble to make sure it looks and feels and works just right. Compare and contrast with Sony's terrible boomerang controller, which looks like some bastardized idea of stylish design, without actually being stylish. Or functional.

I don't think porting games across will be a problem, because I don't think it was going to happen. Not if the PS3 and XB360 are so much more powerful anyway. What the Revolution offers is a chance for smaller third party developers to have a go making something wild and new, without blowing $20 mil in development costs. Games that you can only play on this machine. If you want Madden, go buy a PS3 instead. Or as well, even.

Anyone who is worried about how well this will all translate into the traditional "hardcore" market is missing the point. The games industry is horribly rotten. This looks to be a genuine alternative; a chance to be creative, to impress with your ideas rather than your graphics budget, and hopefully get non-gamers playing again.

I think you'll find that "Here, wave this stick!" goes down a hell of a lot better with non-gamers than, "Here, move with this, look around with this, this button is fire, this is jump, this is crouch - argh! Quick, reload!"

Those games aren't really "mainstream" - they're a weird little geek ghetto for a small fraction of the population. I think Nintendo are doing a very clever thing, and all this talk about how it fits into the game industry as we know it is missing the point. The game industry as we know it has turned sour; we've all been saying so for years. This is getting back to what it was supposed to be about in the first place.

[papillon]

By that logic, books should cost somewhere in the hundreds!


You must be a very slow reader. :)

*shrug* My opinion of the Revolution is about like my opinion of the DS when announced - "What a strange idea. Well, I guess you could do some interesting things with it... I'll wait and see." I've never really been one to rush around screaming at the hype and pre-ordering junk and all that. I still haven't got a DS - but I will shortly :). Many titles announced that sound so much more interesting and fun than Yet Another Sports/Racing/FPS/Whatever that seem to clog up the other markets....

Not being the sort to stand in lines on launch day probably makes me boring and irrelevant to market campaigns or something. :)

[Mike Boeh]

I agree with Anthony. Right off the top of my head, I can think of plenty of ideas to use this style of input. I think this is much more genuine than a gimmick like the DS....

[Reactor]

My mum was just telling me how she didn't want to play a PS2 game the other day because the controller looked scary... because there were too many buttons. The head guy of Nintendo (I forget his name) mentioned earlier that he'd noticed that perception, and wanted to create something that would appeal to the average family member, who thought current games were too hard to get into.

The Revolution controller is a stroke of genius. My mum took one look at it and said she'd have no problem using it (I mean, how many people haven't used a TV remote)? The whole system looks like a DVD player, so the entire "Ooo, it's a silly gaming device" just goes right out the window. What you think of the remote, or of the game ideas presented doesn't really matter. Nintendo have just made console gaming something appealing to an entirely new casual market.

I declare this move by Nintendo to be TEH BESTEST EVAR. Bravo.

[Batley]

RSI here we come. :p

[Reactor]

In an alternate world:

"We here at Nintendo proudly reveal our latest controller- the Nintendo trackball! Designed to eliminate RSI..."

*everybody leaves*

[luggage]

By that logic, books should cost somewhere in the hundreds!That's my point - that's why it's best not to say things like "I only pay $8 for a movie and look how much they cost to make - games should be cheaper".I think you'll find that "Here, wave this stick!" goes down a hell of a lot better with non-gamers than, "Here, move with this, look around with this, this button is fire, this is jump, this is crouch - argh! Quick, reload!"I see your point but surely it's all about what games they're playing? If you're trying to explain to a non-gamer how to play a FPS with the Revolution controller it will be just as difficult as explaining a joypad. "Here, wave this to look about, use this little thumb thing in your other hand to move, to duck there's a little button by your finger on the left hand, to jump there's another button by your left hand, and to shoot use that round button by the right hand".

[Batley]

Thats cool, but how is it designed to eliminate RSI exactly? It's just a rectangular block shape like any remote. Looking at the video of people using it in different ways if it doesnt get your rist then you'll end up with tennis elbow.

[Fry Crayola]

Yeh its just like a mouse... Aside from the fact a mouse only uses one rotational axis on your wrist, this will use 3. Let's also not forget that your mouse hand is always supported, with this it controlleryou will have to use the muscles in your wrist to hold your hand up constantly as otherwise your hand will rub with whatever surface you choose to rest it on.

I could see it as working well with very particular games (like Starwars light saber duels) but for most games it will be completely unplayable for more than 15 minutes in a row.

In all the years I've been playing console games (and its a lot), I rarely rest my rists on anything. I rest my elbows on my knees. No pain involved. And I can do that here too.

[Batley]

Well on a joypad it doesnt really matter if your rists arnt supported since they're stationary you play with your fingers and thumbs.

This looks as though you need to wave it around like a wand to play the games.

[James C. Smith]

I agree with Anthony. Right off the top of my head, I can think of plenty of ideas to use this style of input. I think this is much more genuine than a gimmick like the DS....

I agree with Mike. Anthony is right. ;) This thing looks awesome and any copycats for Xbox of PS will not have half as much impact as having the primary control like this. I can't wait to see Nintendo's 1st party titles.

[soniCron]

That's my point - that's why it's best not to say things like "I only pay $8 for a movie and look how much they cost to make - games should be cheaper". How does paying per hour of enjoyment equate to paying per cost of production?

[luggage]

Because we don't pay for cost of production. Do you think Half Life 2 cost the same to make as Scrabble? What about the cost of Blair Witch compared to Titanic? Did you see any difference in ticket prices? It's another reason comparing games and movies just doesn't work.

[Jim Buck]

Nevermind the fact that at $8/ticket (more like $10 where I live), with the numbers of people that see the movie, a profit could be sustained. However, game sales just don't see the same numbers, so they have to be more expensive to help pay for the development bills (not cheap in the console world) + try to garner a profit.

[soniCron]

Nevermind the fact that at $8/ticket (more like $10 where I live), with the numbers of people that see the movie, a profit could be sustained. However, game sales just don't see the same numbers, so they have to be more expensive to help pay for the development bills (not cheap in the console world) + try to garner a profit. Question: are game sales too low because they cost so much, or are they too low because the demand is simply unsupportable. And how would that change with a game console targetted at the much larger non-gamer audience?

[luggage]

Just how big is this much larger non-gamer audience out of interest?

The controller is obviously aimed at a more 'casual' audience but just how big is this audience? How likely are they to go out and spend money on a console and games?

When I was growing up parents would struggle with this new, fangled technology. But now, we're the parents. I don't know anyone in my age group who would struggle with a controller. You're probably looking at the generation above - are they likely to go out and buy a console?

Just like every single console war - it will come down to the games.

When Sony came up with the PS1 what they get spot on was the target age group. They went for the group with the most disposable income. Are Nintendo giving this age group a bit of a miss with this generation? Is there a market there to support it?

[Jim Buck]

Question: are game sales too low because they cost so much, or are they too low because the demand is simply unsupportable. And how would that change with a game console targetted at the much larger non-gamer audience?

The market for movie watchers will always be way larger than the market for game playing. Why? Because it's much more accessible to more people to just sit back and watch/listen. If that ever changes, and people will be buying games in comparatively larger numbers, then the price will go down. (That's how demand curves work.)

Also, margins on a $60 game aren't as high as you think. For example, I think a publisher of a console title gets ~$25-30 of that price at the most. And that has to first pay for the price of the cost of development + marketing (usually several million at a minimum). And, given that most console games probably do less than 100k units in sales, you can see that most don't even break even.

My grandma will still not buy the Revolution no matter how they target it. (Nevermind the fact that she's not alive. :) )

[soniCron]

When I was growing up parents would struggle with this new, fangled technology. But now, we're the parents. I don't know anyone in my age group who would struggle with a controller. You're probably looking at the generation above - are they likely to go out and buy a console? Perhaps you misunderstand what happened to most of those that grew up with video games: they quit playing. You see, when they got jobs and families, they didn't have the time to wile away the hours in front of the tube. Games had a high time- and focus-demand. There was no option but to give it up.

Now, that doesn't mean they don't want to play games. It just means they aren't capable, for one reason or another. Enter Nintendo's next system, designed to make the cost of playing (both time and energy) low enough for the average person with a job and a family.

You seem to think the hardcore gamers are in the majority, or at least question that they aren't. To that, I am not sure how to respond, other than with some anecdotal evidence. How many non-gamer grown-ups do you know have an Xbox or PS2? Now, how many non-gamer grown-ups do you know have a computer? Internet? Play little online games in the office?

While I'm not suggesting we'll see a ton of Bejeweled games on the next Nintendo, I am suggesting that games with similar levels of commitment and low barriers of entry will be the target for the Big N. Combine that with a natural controller (natural, in that most people more often use their hands to manipulate the world than they push buttons to do so), and you've got a low entry for people who just don't have the time and energy to devote to the mass of hardcore games that populate the other consoles.

And that, in my opinion, is a hell of a lot of people.

[Bmc]

i think if this catches on it will murder ps3 and xbox in sales, if it doesn't then nothing will change.

but like sonicros was saying, even my 60 year old mom plays games on the satellite with the remote control.

[luggage]

I think you misunderstood. This controller is meant to make games more accessable to those who can't grasp those horrible nasty joypads right? Well, who are these people?

Those people who grew up with video games then stopped playing don't have a problem picking up a controller -their barrier to entry isn't the control method. It'll be time and\or money. Microsoft offer an option for this with their Xbox Live Arcade - how come they aren't being mentioned as capturing some of this market? Surely they're doing just as much gaming good?

Incidentally I'm not sure about the "they've stopped playing" aspect. All my anecdotal evidence points to that they usually have some console lying around or another.

You seem to think the hardcore gamers are in the majority, or at least question that they aren't. To that, I am not sure how to respond, other than with some anecdotal evidence. How many non-gamer grown-ups do you know have an Xbox or PS2? Now, how many non-gamer grown-ups do you know have a computer? Internet? Play little online games in the office?Actually I don't know. I have no idea what kind of market is out there for non-gamers. What exactly is a non-gamer? Why haven't they picked up a console before? What is their barrier to entry? Some people just won't buy a console full stop. Having a multi-purpose PC is a world away from having a game console.even my 60 year old mom plays games on the satellite with the remote control. But will she fork out for a console and games?

[soniCron]

I think it's safe to say at this point that you just don't "get it." And that's ok, because you're obviously not their target market.

[luggage]

I do "get it" though. What I don't "get" is all the swooning over something that we know so little about. It's going to revolutionise gaming? How about we wait and see what games will actually be available and at what price before we consider that.

Here some thoughts...

* Who is it aimed at? What is it between the two different types of controller that will make people pick the Revolution?
* Will the added normal controller be supplied with the system or is it something extra we have to pay for? Will this affect developers making games for said normal controller?
* What do I do if I want to wipe my brow while playing? Or take a quick drink? Or move slightly on the couch?
* What kind of range does it have? Do I have to sit face on to the telly?
* Where are all the buttons? It looks like you have two easily accessable - is this enough?
* How accurate is it? How steady do I have to hold it? Will my arm ache?
* Will I lose genres? How will a fighting game work? A soccer game? Will they just be dumbed down?
* I'm hearing "you'll be able to swing a sword in Zelda" - great - what about the rest of the game? How will that control?
* Where are the games?

Until I have answers to those I don't really want to say that it will be a success or a failure - all we can do is wait.

--Edit--
Has anyone used one of these (http://www.gyration.com/ultragt.htm)? They haven't caught on so far but it's not too unlike the remote.

[Anthony Flack]

I see your point but surely it's all about what games they're playing? If you're trying to explain to a non-gamer how to play a FPS with the Revolution controller it will be just as difficult as explaining a joypad.


Well I think the point is that you already have quite a lot of control in waving that stick around. So there should be plenty of rich gameplay experiences that can be developed with just "wave the stick". The non-gamer won't be playing your typical FPS game on either system. The difference is, the PS3 will be offering lots of standard FPS games, and the Revolution will be offering something different.

Similar with the "where's all the other buttons?" question. The point is, designers have been using too many buttons for years, and it is turning people off. How many people enjoyed playing on the NES, but don't play any more? Two buttons and an arrow were a huge part of its appeal. Wheras an Xbox controller is a horrible thing to contemplate. It put me off at least.

[rioka]

1.According to Miyamoto, "We want a system that takes advantage of new technology for something that anyone, regardless of age or gender, can pick up and play. (Something with a) gameplay style that people who have never played games can pick up and not be intimidated by. We wanted a controller that somebody's mother will look at and not be afraid of." 1up.com (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143782)

Basically, you got a) a controller plugged to a console with at least 10 buttons on it and to those unfamiliar with it, rather weird to handle or b) a "remote" control that offers freedom of movement, familiarity to everyone, simplified button options, and it looks much more user friendly than the usual control. If you were someone who has never seen a console, much less a controller for it before, which one would you choose? Traditional console controller or familiar remote control?

2. You can plug the GC controllers right to the Revolution (http://www.revolutionreport.com/articles/read/102) and they will work but the new controller will also have a "shell" that will turn it into a traditional wing-type model.

3. Gee, I dunno - don't you think they'd put in some sort of "pause" option? ...Like pressing the start button, maybe? ;)

4. According to IGN (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651224p4.html), "Also, if you're wondering, there's no set limit on the distance one can use the remote yet, but Nintendo has tested it on up to 80"-100" screens and says it works fantastically. It can be used on tubes, LCDs, plasma, projection or any kind of screen because the sensor is connected like a flat antenna under the display."

5. Revolution Controller Upclose and Personal (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651301p1.html). Basically, TV power button, D=pad, select, home, start, Big A, a + b button, and Big B (underside). Also includes rumble feature, btw. So far, I think the analog stick will be an extra but that has two Z-buttons for the index finger, IIRC. And from what I'm reading, there will be other peripherals available. As for that being enough buttons.. why not? You can play most games on say - arcadetown - just by pointing and clicking. 'Sides, I'm sure developers are innovative enough to make use of the limited button choices.

6. See No. 4 about accuracy. Your arm ache? With what? Holding something less than 1 lb? :)

7. For some speculation on how genre's will work with the Revolution controller, check this out: Revolution Contoller: The Possibilities (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651224p1.html)

8. See no. 7

9. The Revolution is coming out in 2006. Nintendo has not formerly released games that will be released on it. Here's some reactions from developer's during the controller unveiling, though:

From Nintendo.com (http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=Uuo6JoTDkBzpp3yLzpJSxvJrvmUZ J6El&page=)

Akitoshi Kawazu (Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles), Hideo Kojima (Metal Gear Solid) and Yuji Horii (Dragon Quest) expressed their excitement over the controller in a brief video shown during the presentation.

...When Sega’s Yuji Naka first saw the controller, according to Miyamoto, he got very excited and picked up one in each hand, expressing a desire to make a game that utilizes two of the units (Samba de Amigo, perhaps?).

From IGN (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651304p1.html):

"Nintendo has long been a trailblazer, and this controller design reinforces that reputation," said Brian Farrell, president and CEO of THQ. "We enthusiastically support Nintendo's next console because we believe their approach of continual innovation is very much in line with our own strategy of creating unique and innovative games for the next generation of hardware."

"What we're seeing from this controller is the same thing we saw with Nintendo DS," said Chuck Huebner, Head of Worldwide Studios, Activision.. "It's a system that's designed with an eye on enticing new players to the video game industry, and that's something we firmly support."

"Game control is essential - it's the area where perhaps the most game-play improvement can be made," said John Schappert, Sr. Vice President and General Manager of Electronic Arts Canada. "While our portfolio represents a full array of titles across all genres, I think our sports titles might be the first to immediately take advantage of what this novel 'freehand' type of control has to offer."

"We were among the first publishers to see the control design in action," said Serge Hascoet, Chief Creative Officer of Ubisoft. "We're excited about the new controller and are looking forward to taking advantage of its innovative aspects."

Personally, it's exciting to see something different coming into the console market with the possibility of expanding gameplay experience. Makes me wonder how Nintendo will follow up after the Revolution...

[Rainer Deyke]

How many people enjoyed playing on the NES, but don't play any more? Two buttons and an arrow were a huge part of its appeal. Wheras an Xbox controller is a horrible thing to contemplate. It put me off at least.

Actually the NES had four buttons: A, B, start and select. The start and select buttons were regularily used by games during gameplay.

Four buttons seems like a sweet spot to be. The NES had four buttons. You can can play Feyna's Quest (http://eldwood.com/feyna/quest.php) with four buttons. Fewer buttons is definitely too few, and more buttons is probably too many. I have serious trouble keeping the eight buttons of the SNES controller straight. So I'm not really disagreeing with you. I do, however, find it worrying that the Revolution controller only has two easily accessible buttons (plus D-pad) in its default orientation.

[svero]

My main worry with this controller is that in the end it will end up being too gimmicky and that the fun appeal of waving around a remote won't last. Also it seems on the surface like something where the sensitivity and accuracy elements could end up being quite frusrtating. I am quite interested to try some games with it though. If it is solid and fun in play then nintendo could have a little revolution on their hands thanks to having the guts to innovate. But then thats always the risk when you do something new. You've gotta admire their gumption.

[luggage]

rioka: I can't be bothered going through all of that list explaining why none of the points you mention answer any of my questions. Suffice to say you haven't. All you've done is quote PR at me. You may as well tell me the PS3 games will look just like the Killzone video.

Incidentally - hold your arm out in front of you. How long does it take for your arm to get tired? What? Even though you're not actually holding anything?

I did consider a pause option but you have kinda missed the point. I'm playing a game where the position of the controller is important. Now someone wants me to shuffle along on the couch to make room. What will the game think I've done? How workable is this? Do I have to press a button to set the controller's 'home' position everytime I readjust for comfort or take a drink?

[Batley]

Come to think of it didnt Nintendo do some thing similar years ago only the controler was a glove?

[luggage]

The power glove and virtual boy I think it was. They went the same way as the E-Reader and the 64DD.

[DangerCode]

The power glove and virtual boy I think it was. They went the same way as the E-Reader and the 64DD.

And don't forget R.O.B. (http://therealscandy.free.fr/culte/image/Rob.gif)

:D

[simonh]

Incidentally - hold your arm out in front of you. How long does it take for your arm to get tired? What? Even though you're not actually holding anything?
I don't think you would actually hold your arm out most of the time though. You would rest your arm on your legs, and then just use slight wrist movements to control the game.

In a way it's very similar to mouse control in that it's all about wrist action.

[Batley]

...and that bazooka light gun too. :D

[Jim Buck]

I'm playing a game where the position of the controller is important. Now someone wants me to shuffle along on the couch to make room. What will the game think I've done? How workable is this? Do I have to press a button to set the controller's 'home' position everytime I readjust for comfort or take a drink?

Yeah, I was wondering about this situation too. There are all sorts of "gotchas" with an absolute position controller. It would require *TONS* of calibration. Someone said something about using the controller while resting their hand on their leg and making subtle motions. What if the game is expecting large sweeping motions? Can it be calibrated to use less sweeping motions? Or what about the opposite - a game expecting subtle motions, but some people just can't move the controller in anything less than long, jerky movements?

I'd really like to see this controller working under real gaming conditions. All that stuff in the video are just actors moving their arms around and not playing actual games. Would someone really play Super Mario Brothers by quickly jerking the controller up?

[soniCron]

The power glove and virtual boy I think it was. They went the same way as the E-Reader and the 64DD. Addons have always had the tendency for failure. With the exception of the 4MB expansion pack for the N64 and the DualShock controller, I can't think of a single addon that didn't fail. As far as the Virtual Boy is concerned, the problem with that wasn't the control, but rather, the goggles sucked. The Revolution controller is unique in that it is being shipped with the system as the primary controlling device.

Nintendo has never failed with their primary input devices. In fact, they've been copied every time they innovated. The NES controller begot all gamepads since with a digital direction pad instead of a hand-gripped joystick. The SNES controller begot the PS1 controller with four buttons in a diamond shape and shoulder buttons. The N64 controller begot the DualShock with analog thumb sticks and rumble.

To write the Revolution controller off because of unequivicable addon devices tried and lost in the past is ludicrous.

[luggage]

You should take a look at the Intellivision controller - multiple buttons, 'shoulder' buttons, thumbdisc.

Anyway - nobody has "written it off" as you put it. I'm not saying what it's going to do either way. All we've seen is some PR and a rather dodgy video. I don't think they've shown enough for anyone to say it's going to be a success or a failure. Nintendo's past controllers and their 'success' (so long as you ignore their failures) mean diddley squat now. Do you think this same user who's too scared to use a 'normal' control pad will look at it and go "hmm... Nintendo - they were a success with their other pads."? Don't think so. Either people will like the controller or they won't - and we won't know this until people get their hands on it with actual games.

Just as you say it's ludricous to write them off based on past hardware failures so it's also ludricous to say they'll be a success based on their past hardware successes.

As for the "Nintendo have never failed with their primary input device". What a pointless statement. Sega never failed with one of theirs either (and they innovated too, six face buttons, analogue triggers, VMU), yet their hardware division went to the wall. Primary input device's don't really fail, criticised yes but not really fail.

I don't get why you feel the need to defend Nintendo? Nobody is attacking them here. At the end of the day - it's games that sell consoles. Shouldn't we wait till we see some before we can pronounce if it's going to be a success or a failure?

You're jumping up and down yelling "how can you say it will be a failure?" while at the same time saying "it's going to be a success" - can you see the irony here?

[soniCron]

I don't get why you feel the need to defend Nintendo? Nobody is attacking them here. So you bring up their past failures because...?

I find it telling that some of the top game designers in the world are excited as hell about the new controller.

[luggage]

Which tells me nothing more than the 'top' game designers in the world are excited about a new controller. This doesn't mean it's going to be a success (or a failure).

When someone tells me how successful Nintendo have been in the past - then their past failures are relevant to that point. Mentioning a past failure isn't an attack - it's like people gloss over them because it's Nintendo.

You're just getting a load of PR - it's no different to Sony's PS3 videos and the Xbox360's specs. Plenty of 'top' designers are excited about those machines but it doesn't guarantee anything.

Put it this way - were you dragged into how great the PS3 is going to be based on their videos? No. 'Top' designers were getting excited about it so why not? So why are you being dragged into how great the Revolution will be based on a video and some PR. Take it all with a pinch of salt until you see it in action.

All we can do is wait and see. Maybe it will be a success? Maybe it'll be their last roll of the dice? Who knows.

[soniCron]

When someone tells me how successful Nintendo have been in the past - then their past failures are relevant to that point. Mentioning a past failure isn't an attack - it's like people gloss over them because it's Nintendo. And, in this case, irrelevant. These are addons you pointed out, which have nothing to do with the conversation beyond noting that Nintendo is comfortable to innovate.


You're just getting a load of PR - it's no different to Sony's PS3 videos and the Xbox360's specs. Plenty of 'top' designers are excited about those machines but it doesn't guarantee anything. I fail to see how a unique method of input is similar to a speed upgrade.


Put it this way - were you dragged into how great the PS3 is going to be based on their videos? No. 'Top' designers were getting excited about it so why not? So why are you being dragged into how great the Revolution will be based on a video and some PR. Take it all with a pinch of salt until you see it in action. A lot of press has already been given access to the new controller and were able to test it out themselves, hands on. The consensus? It is as good as you'd think.


Your words say you'd like to wait and see, but your attitude, on the other hand, tells a different story. Why exactly you've got a problem with people being excited about this is beyond me.

[luggage]

I'm quite excited to see what the games are going to be like. I just tend to gloss over all the PR as it's just hype - every console has it and will have it. I've worked with the press, I know how much it costs to get a good review, and I know that the press aren't always the best place to get opinions from. I'm just surprised that people tell me it's going to revolutionise gaming based on one bogus video and some press talk.

I'd say this was Nintendo's last roll of the dice - if it doesn't come off and their market share continues to shrink then I fear the worst. That's why I hope it will succeed but showing me a dodgy video and some pictures raises questions. It looks like asking these questions means you have the wrong 'attitude'.

[soniCron]

How long did it take you to switch from DOS to Windows?

[luggage]

Never used a machine that only had DOS. First PC I used had windows 95 on it - it was when I took a job working at a game developer almost 10 years ago.

Up until then I had consoles, Amiga, Atart ST, an Archimedes and a BBC.

And this has something to do with the thread how?

[soniCron]

Just exploring your willingness to accept new technologies.

You see, assuming the controller functions as per the specifications we have, there's not much left to fate. The assumption that the controller works is certainly not unreasonable - not much different than assuming both analog sticks on your PS2 controller will work. We can all agree that if it kicks out every 12 seconds, registers completely incorrect angles, and the like, it's bound to fail. Since Nintendo's relying on this to be their primary input, we can assume it actually functions correctly.

Now, what's left? Developers. How many do you think are going to be left behind after gripping two controllers in their fists and experience a boxing match with real punches? How many do you think are going to dismiss the system after swinging the controller for a beautiful home run, beating the world record? How many developers are going to decide the next Nintendo console is a waste of time after performing a 23-point fighting combo with beautifully scripted gestures? Or blocking their opponent's blows then thrusting their broadsword into their enemy's flesh? Or sharpshooting an enemy target from a kilometer away? Commanding an army to ravage a city with two swift gestures? Building an empire from their armchair? Extinguishing that empire with the power of a god?

How many, do you think, would rather pass this on for their pixel shaders?

How many gamers?

[luggage]

I accept the best tool for the job. If I'm playing a driving game I use a steering wheel. If I'm playing a flying game I use a joystick.

Your suggestions of uses is exactly what's wrong with the hype. Instead of waiting to see what games come out you've made them all up in your head. Surely we should be looking at new game types rather than turning the remote into nothing more than a novelty controller.

As cool as you might think it is to wave two around for a boxing game you've got to ask "will the players want to?" You see, and this is back to one of my points about who it's aimed at, who's going to want to do that? I'm not seven years old - and the generation who do have a problem with a controller aren't likely to want to stand up waving them around. This is what is meant by "will it work". Imagine controlling every game with the eye toy? Unless the consoles will come with 2 or you get one with the game how many games do you think will utilise 2 controllers? Bit of a risk for the developer wouldn't you say?

You see, I can shake Maracas, I can play Bongos, I can shoot guns, I can use chainsaws, I can fish, I can swing a golf club, I can punch the air, I can dance, I can do all that and more without a Nintendo Revolution. None of those games revolutionised gaming. I'm hoping the game developers who use it will use their imagination a little more than "it's like a sword...no wait.. a light sabre!".

As I keep saying, wait for the games. Sure, in your own little imagination I bet it's going to be great but until we've seen more judging something a success or a failure is a crazy man's business.

And now, because you seem intent on stripping apartmy posts to make some kind of point which you don't appear to be making. I shall put you on block. It's getting tiresome and I'm getting bored (as I'm sure everyone else is).

[soniCron]

I accept the best tool for the job. If I'm playing a driving game I use a steering wheel. If I'm playing a flying game I use a joystick... Surely we should be looking at new game types rather than turning the remote into nothing more than a novelty controller. By your own admission you'd rather use the input device best suited for the job. Unless I'm completely missing the purpose of the Revolution's controller, it takes place as the most suitable input device for a vast array of gameplay mechanics, far more so than a wheel, joystick, or gamepad ever could. And it's the primary input device being shipped with the Revolution, which means it's going to be widespread on that console, unlike the add-on controllers you mentioned.


As cool as you might think it is to wave two around for a boxing game you've got to ask "will the players want to?" Players seem more than satisfied to go jumping around on a dance mat.


Unless the consoles will come with 2 or you get one with the game how many games do you think will utilise 2 controllers? Bit of a risk for the developer wouldn't you say? How many folks in these forums have more than one controller for your console? How about people you know? Sure, it's a bit of a risk, but really, how much?


You see, I can shake Maracas, I can play Bongos, I can shoot guns, I can use chainsaws, I can fish, I can swing a golf club, I can punch the air, I can dance, I can do all that and more without a Nintendo Revolution. But at what cost? Monetary? How many external peripherals do you have to buy? Control? How is a gamepad better suited for almost all genres of gaming? And for those not yet created?


None of those games revolutionised gaming. I'm hoping the game developers who use it will use their imagination a little more than "it's like a sword...no wait.. a light sabre!". No. You're right. None of those games revolutionize gaming. However, the way in which we control those games with the controller has the potential to revolutionize gaming. It's not just about throwing away everything we know. It's about building from that to create something truly amazing.


And now, because you seem intent on stripping apartmy posts to make some kind of point which you don't appear to be making. I shall put you on block. It's getting tiresome and I'm getting bored (as I'm sure everyone else is). Suit yourself. Looks like I'm left with a lot of unanswered questions.

[Ricardo C]

I really don't want to be near either of you when the bloody console actually comes out and you actually have something to get worked up over... ;)

[Anthony Flack]

I do, however, find it worrying that the Revolution controller only has two easily accessible buttons (plus D-pad) in its default orientation.


But don't underestimate the 6 axes of analogue control you get before even pushing any buttons. And underneath all that, it's still a NES-ish controller as well.

I think it's safe to assume that this thing works as well as advertised (it would be total suicide for Nintendo to go with it if it didn't), and of course there will be plenty of games to go with it (Nintendo have been known to make some quite good games). Imagining new games in your head is inevitable (strangely, I'd often thought of that particular boxing game in the past - I really want to play a genuinely adaptive fighting game that doesn't reduce you to memorising button combinations) - I think it's safe to say that a lot of these game ideas, and more, will be realised.

And hey, now that I think of it, of course EA and the rest would want to support this system. Here is a chance to make a new Madden game that actually is different from the last one.

What has really impressed me here is that Nintendo has shown, again, that it doesn't just make great games - it's a proper hardware manufacturer. Proper, as in it actually comes up with new hardware devices. Sony and Microsoft are both pitching identical machines with no new features - their idea of being a hardware manufacturer is simply being the company that owns the box and gets the license fee. Nintendo are making new things.

It remains to be seen whether this is a gimmick, but really, I don't think so. It feels a little gimmicky because it's new, but in the end I think people will find it really useful and versatile, not just a novelty item. No need to buy maraccas or lightguns or anything like that any more. Never mind all the new uses it could be put to.

Time will tell, but if I was a gambling man, I'd be buying Nintendo stock.

[soniCron]

In addition, the comes-with-the-box analog thumbpad "addon" has 2 triggers, and I'd be surprised if they didn't add a couple more buttons around the big "A" button. (Like the Gamecube's X and Y buttons.)

[Nexic]

In all the years I've been playing console games (and its a lot), I rarely rest my rists on anything. I rest my elbows on my knees. No pain involved. And I can do that here too.

Yes, but in the past you didn't have to move anything but your fingers, now your have to move your entire wrist/arm.

[Anthony Flack]

A certain amount of physical motion doesn't seem to have prevented people from enjoying just about any other activity you can think of.

[Raptisoft]

Hm, it seems to me that gripping the revolution controller on both ends, as if you were holding the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions on a steering wheel, could be pretty good for MarioKart.

I'm personally excited about this sucker. I've been predicting the crash of the games industry for about a year, based on stagnation. Now I make an additional prediction: If the Nintendo Revolution is NOT a total flop, the crash will not happen in the next 10 years.

The big thing here is that innovation is going to go through the roof. XBox and PS3 are going to have "Doom 4, now with *more* pipes on the walls!" whereas Revolution is finally going to be a console that could handle an RTS like Starcraft (lasso your units with a swing of the controller, anyone?), could handle a realistic fishing game, could make a realistic driving game without add-on steering wheels, could (as mentioned above) make an absolutely AMAZING boxing game...

Well, I'm excited. Change is nigh, and it's about damn time.

[Fry Crayola]

Yes, but in the past you didn't have to move anything but your fingers, now your have to move your entire wrist/arm.

I spend umpteen hours a day moving my wrist, using my mouse at work and the touchpad on the laptop. The action required isn't going to cause me to enter a spasm and result in amputation or anything. It's entirely comfortable.

Do you really think Nintendo would make the main input device for their next generation controller completely unusable for more than 15 minutes? Remember, this is the company that has pioneered almost every console interface since the D-Pad.

[Nexic]

As I've already explained, a mouse only uses one rotational axis of your wrist, this will use 2-3. Plus your hand is constantly supported by the mouse. With this your hand will need to be lifted from the surface, so there will be less support. Plus you will find most of the mouse movement is done with your thumb and little finger, not your wrist.

Now try this. Lift your mouse off of your mouse pad and wave it in the air (you can still rest the pivot of your wrist, just not your hand) for 15 minutes straight, then tell me that didn't hurt.

[ERoberts]

And yet, painters can paint for hours without moaning. I guess they are just a tougher breed, eh?

[luggage]

They actually earn money. Ask a painter if they'd do it for 'fun' and see what they say.

[ERoberts]

Amateur artists?

Besides, if the reward is money or entertainment, it's still a reward.

[luggage]

If you think waving your arm around in the air won't cause it to ache then do as Nexic suggested and try it. Or go and buy an EyeToy and play their fighting game - you're get knackered quite quickly.

Just because it's a Nintendo controller doesn't mean you can't ask questions.

[Reactor]

As I've already explained, a mouse only uses one rotational axis of your wrist, this will use 2-3. Plus your hand is constantly supported by the mouse.

Desk/arm support does not = good. When you're holding a standard mouse your arm is twisted in an unnatural manner, which can result in arm and shoulder discomfort. The Rev controller will be held in a more natural manner, with your hand on its side. Also, since the human body was designed to move (and assuming the Rev games have people moving themselves around) this can only be a good thing... or at very least, a better thing than sitting down all the time you're playing.

Seriously though, it all comes down to the games. I'm sure there will be games that will cater for both types of people- those who want to wave something around, and those who don't.

[luggage]

Seriously though, it all comes down to the games. I'm sure there will be games that will cater for both types of people- those who want to wave something around, and those who don't.Amen to that!

[Fry Crayola]

As I've already explained, a mouse only uses one rotational axis of your wrist, this will use 2-3. Plus your hand is constantly supported by the mouse. With this your hand will need to be lifted from the surface, so there will be less support. Plus you will find most of the mouse movement is done with your thumb and little finger, not your wrist.

Now try this. Lift your mouse off of your mouse pad and wave it in the air (you can still rest the pivot of your wrist, just not your hand) for 15 minutes straight, then tell me that didn't hurt.

Two things - first, I don't move my mouse with my thumb and little finger, I move my wrist. And with my touchpad, I have to do the same.

Secondly, it didn't hurt. I guess I'm just used to such movements. Or perhaps my results are normal and you're the minority. We'll find out when the Rev is released, at any rate. But I find it quite comfortable resting my arms on my lap, with the analogue stick (or for this test, mobile phone) in my left hand, and the remote (or mouse, here) in my right, with both arms positioned so that my wrist lies on my thighs. Plenty of scope for 3D movement of the right hand, and no discomfort. Remember to go from one extreme to the other requires a turn of the mouse of only an inch or so at most - assuming of course that the device is as accurate as accounts would have it believe, which is all we really have to go on, so that's what ought to be discussed. And if it wasn't as accurate at that, it'd be a failure as an input device before it leaves R&D.

As ever, it'll be the final release and proper experience that will tell the full story, but you can see why I'm optimistic. Dare I say it, I find it quite natural.

[Fry Crayola]

If you think waving your arm around in the air won't cause it to ache then do as Nexic suggested and try it. Or go and buy an EyeToy and play their fighting game - you're get knackered quite quickly.

Just because it's a Nintendo controller doesn't mean you can't ask questions.

Indeed, you're right. There'll be a slew of games that'll involve physical exertion on a par with fencing or baseball, and these will no doubt tire people out. But for games like FPS titles, or Super Monkey Ball, or an adventure, there'd be very little movement required. An inch here and there. That's what I've really got my excitement focussed on - more accurate FPS games and more natural control of certain other games. Games where I have to master the art of the sword, well, that's for any time I'm feeling energetic or at a party.

[Hamumu]

If you think waving your arm around in the air won't cause it to ache then do as Nexic suggested and try it. Or go and buy an EyeToy and play their fighting game - you're get knackered quite quickly.

I make no predictions on the viability or fun or anything of this upcoming controller, but seriously... don't you think an entire console system that forces you to move a little to play the games is a GREAT thing!? People have proven they like it - DDR is incredibly popular, and moreso with non-gamers. It gets people who would never play video games previously into actual arcades. But more than whether people will like it, it's a good thing for the world.

And it's not like normal people are averse to getting exercise for entertainment - people play all manner of sports all the time until they're dripping with sweat. Wouldn't it be great if kids set down FFXVIII because they were physically tired after an hour, rather than from eye strain or mental collapse after 15 hours straight? I just don't think there's a downside to making console games require exertion. The more the better... make it come with a DDR mat by default too! And an eyetoy! Then make them use all 3 at once. And attach lead weights to their limbs (call them Fun Bands!).

I just wanted to interject that thought into this line of "but it will make you MOVE!" discussion, and now quietly step out. Please everyone continue debating whether this nonexistent system is awesomely righteous or crapulent.

[soniCron]

To Everyone:
Take your TV remote in your hand.
Hold it loosely with your fingers.
Rest your arm on lap.
Now, without moving your wrist, rotate the remote with your index finger and thumb.
Realize that you don't even need to use your wrist.

[soniCron]

Developers and industry professionals discuss the Nintendo Revolution controller in this article (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1084&Itemid=2). Almost all of them are super excited about the controller! If you've got the top dogs fighting to use this system, it just may have a chance!

[soniCron]

Fellow poster, Daniel Cook, has an excellent article about the Revolution and Nintendo's strategy with the new controller. Read it here (http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html).

[Pyabo]

Now try this. Lift your mouse off of your mouse pad and wave it in the air (you can still rest the pivot of your wrist, just not your hand) for 15 minutes straight, then tell me that didn't hurt.

Geez... have you ever heard of SPORTS? It's slightly tiring, but still wildly popular!

[papillon]

I bought DDR precisely *to* have it tire me out. :)

And the experience is a lot less painful than what used to happen to my thumbs after a really hardcore NES session...

[Nexic]

Geez... have you ever heard of SPORTS? It's slightly tiring, but still wildly popular!

That's like saying touch typing is a sport. For it to be a sport in that sense I think you are required to use larger muscle groups (Ie muscles that can make you out of breath when you use them). Moving your wrist will just cause muscular pain, and no it won't help you lose weight.

[soniCron]

Moving your wrist will just cause muscular pain, and no it won't help you lose weight. ...... oh. Shoot.

[Black Hydra]

Actually I think these controllers could be better for strain. Using the old analog sticks for the gamecube and PS2 (even worse on the N64) would leave my thumbs sore. I think this is a result of some games having giving you the tendancy to press the buttons (or analog stick in this case) harder than is necessary to recieve the effect.

I was incredibly forceful on my keyboard when playing Gish: "C'mon, c'mon don't ... fall... over..." Somehow, subconciously, I felt pressing the arrow keys harder would keep me from dying. A sign of an intriguing game I'm sure but also a strain if you play it too much.

I'd actually like to see games that require you to move more. The revolution controller is a good start. If a game would let you swing or move to play it we might not hear crap about how video games are making people fat.

[soniCron]

If a game would let you swing or move to play it we might not hear crap about how video games are making people fat. On the other hand, there would actually be some merit when a polititian said something like, "It trains children to kill."

[Raptisoft]

I think we might be overlooking how this new controller could help facilitate more adult video games.

[PoV]

Err... yes. There's a rumble motor in the remote.

But 'cmon, it's Nintendo. No chance. :D

[Anthony Flack]

That's like saying touch typing is a sport. For it to be a sport in that sense I think you are required to use larger muscle groups

He's not saying that playing Nintendo will be a sport. He's just saying that sport is very popular - most people are quite capable of having fun while moving about.

I would hate to think that most people have become so sedentry that having to move your arm a bit is seen as a barrier. It probably takes more effort to play a game of darts. Or a game of cards, even!

[ManuelFLara]

It probably takes more effort to play a game of darts. Or a game of cards, even!
Well, playing a game of darts or cards, you can rest your arm/hand/wrist when it's not your turn, while playing an action FPS where you must be pointing at the screen all the time to shoot anything that pops on the screen, is definitely more tedious. On the other hand, I don't think this will be the case (having your arm up and pointing at the screen). On the 1up.com preview they said there was a Metroid 2 port specially tunned for the Revolution controller, and they said it played nicely. The analog joystick on one hand and the stick-like controller on the other, and they only had to smoothly move the wrist (with both hands resting on something, their legs or whatever). Apparently, it felt even more natural than using the keyboard & mouse.

For games like Tennis, Baseball, sword-fighting, etc. you'll be able to rest between games/fights/whatever, so it won't be continuous heavy movement.

[Fry Crayola]

On the other hand, there would actually be some merit when a polititian said something like, "It trains children to kill."

Taking him to a gun club does the same. The real deal is that they're not supposed to be playing those games, or in the gun club.

A little more ammo for Jack Thompson, but I don't think enough for a successful attack.

[Greg Squire]

My first reaction after seeing this controller was "you've got to be kidding?". :eek: But the more I thought about this could be a good move for them, assuming the controller really works well. My 10 year old son has a light saber game (http://www.hasbro.com/pl/page.viewproduct/product_id.15970/dn/starwars/default.cfm) that you control by swinging a light saber (essentially a highly reflective stick) in front of a small array of light sensors. Using software it figures out where you're supposed to be swinging. The saber controller doesn't work that well in my opinion, but my son still loves it. Hopefully Nintendo's controller works better than that. I applaud Nintendo for making this bold move with this controller. I hope it pays off for them, and helps move game innovation forward.

I ran across this blog entry (http://www.lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html), and I think this guy has pretty much "hit the nail on the head" concerning Nintendo's strategy. Nintendo has put themselves in a position where they have to innovate to make money, but that's not a bad thing in my mind. :)

[soniCron]

I ran across this blog entry (http://www.lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html), and I think this guy has pretty much "hit the nail on the head" concerning Nintendo's strategy. Nintendo has put themselves in a position where they have to innovate to make money, but that's not a bad thing in my mind. :) I mentioned that article in a previous post (http://forums.indiegamer.com/showpost.php?p=60060). Any additional thoughts you could share? I, too, thought it was a very insightful article, but really don't feel I have a strong enough grasp to discuss it thoughtfully.

[DangerCode]

I'll admit to being highly skeptical at first regarding this device, but I've got it under good authority that the next installment of a highly successfull Nintendo franchise is using this excluvisely as the input controller.

Interesting.

[rioka]

For those who can't wait for the real thing... Revolution Controller Papercraft (http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2005/09/18/revolution-controller-papercraft)

[soniCron]

Thoughts on this (http://research.microsoft.com/~awilson/wand/default.htm)?

[Pyabo]

Very interesting. The only part that scares me is this gobbledygook:

"The XWand system leverages the intelligence of the ubiquitous computing environment to best determine the user's intention"

Microsoft has for YEARS been laboring under the impression that their software is somehow "intelligent," when this is obviously not the case at all. If they would just get over the whole idea of trying to second guess the user at every opportunity, their software could probably be a lot more user friendly.

[PoV]

Thoughts on this (http://research.microsoft.com/~awilson/wand/default.htm)?
Sony has one too (http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000200061586/).

[soniCron]

Sony has one too (http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000200061586/). I'd have to disagree. Sony's is nothing more than an Eyetoy with buttons.

[PoV]

How so? Sure, it's a different idea, and not as sophisticated. EyeToy used to follow a coded moving light source, but it can still be used for 2D detecting of positions/gestures.

[soniCron]

How so? Sure, it's a different idea, and not as sophisticated. How am I supposed to argue with you when you answer yourself? :) Seriously, Sony's wand lacks spacial and tilt recognition. It's nothing more than an Eyetoy with buttons.

[vjvj]

Yeah, from what I skimmed off the article, it works on the same principle as EyeToy. Both use image processing in screenspace to detect motion. Only difference is that one is actually tracking the object, while the other is tracking the environment and deriving motion from that.

[PoV]

Right, and it looks more like a flashlight. With Nintendo's stategically placed sensors to find positional change (the "re