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Sol_HSA
09-04-2005, 11:32 AM
I wrote this several years ago, thinking that I might write a zelda-like RPG one day. Someone of you might find it useful.



Zeldaism
Classic Zelda - Analysis



1. Definition

There are several games in the Zelda series, and some aspects of the game
have survived through all these generations. The games, in order of appearance;

Zelda 1 - the legend of zelda.
- NES game. Rather horrible, but had some of the basic elements.

Zelda 2 - Link's return (or revenge or something)
- NES game. Side-scrolling platform game that had nothing to do with zelda.

Zelda 3 - A Link to the Past
- SNES game. _The_ zelda game.

Zelda Color - Link's Awakening
- Sort of cut-down version of the SNES zelda, but with some elements from zelda64. This could be considered the "minimal" classic zelda game.

Zelda64 - Ocarina of Time
- n64 game. totally 3d game, instead of tile-based, but surprisingly many
zelda-elements have survived.

The 'classic zelda' I'm talking about is something between zelda3 and zelda color.



2. Game world

In zelda color the world contains 'rooms', each containing 10x7 16x16 pixel tiles (320x224 pixels total) with some status stuff on the bottom of the screen. Zelda3 expands a bit on this having maybe 2x2 screenfuls per room (scrolling). The world contains NxN rooms with N dungeons, each containing NxN rooms (typically 5x5 or so) and N levels. Houses can also be considered 'dungeons' with 1-2 rooms and sometimes 1-2 levels. I'll call a dungeon or house a 'map'. Traveling between maps (world-dungeon, world-house, dungeon level-dungeon level etc) is handled with special tiles. Room-to-room movement is handled by letting the player walk through some side of the room.

The rooms in every zelda game are reset when player exits the room (except for some key items, end-of-level monsters and switches which are remembered per dungeon), which saves on the data required for save games but may be rather annoying.

So in summary:
Pixel - a dot on screen.
Tile - a 16x16 or 32x32 tile of pixels on screen.
Room - 10x7 or bigger grid of tiles.
Map - NxN rooms.



3. Tiles

A zelda game contains 8 different tile types.

1. Floor tile
- Passable.
- Unalterable.

2. Wall tile
- Non passable.
- Unalterable.

3. Weak wall tile
- Nonpassable
- Possible to change into floor tile (via explosives, using key on a door etc)

4. Weak floor tile
- Passable
- Possible to change into special 'portal' tile (via explosives or by standing on a weak tile too long etc)

5. Alterable floor tile
- Passable
- Possible to change into an unalterable floor tile (via cutting grass or digging soft ground for items)

6. Item tile
- Nonpassable
- Possible to change into a floor tile by either breaking the item or picking it up (either of which may require special item - pots may be picked up easily, heavy stones require giant's gloves, etc)
- Chests are special item tiles; picking stuff from them doesn't make the tile passable.

7. Switch tile
- Passable or non passable
- stepping on, hitting, throwing items at may make something to happen (open doors, change 'death portal' tiles to floor tiles and vice versa). These switch tiles generally have two states, and the state is changed for the whole dungeon at once.
- unalterable (except for its state, which may mean passable/non passable change as well).

8. Portal tiles
- Stepping on a portal tile either kills you ('death portal' - bottomless pit, lava etc) or transports you to another map.
- May be visually a cave entrance, house entrance, staircase, ladder, hole in the ground, a well..

So, each tile may have the following characteristics:
- Passable or non passable
- Unalterable or alterable, if alterable, how, and what does it change?
- Switchable or non switchable - what does each switch state mean?
- Switch or non-switch
- Portal, death-portal or non-portal. If portal, to where?

Additionally each tile may contain slipperiness and slope characteristics (slipperiness means the character slides after movement stops and accelerates slowly; slope moves the character in certain direction if the character is not moved)

Water is a special case of 'death portal' as well. If the character doesn't have certain items (boat, scuba-gear or something) he drowns.



4. Sprites

On top of tiles we have sprites. Player character is a sprite. Monsters are
sprites that try to kill the player. Item sprites are stuff the player can pick up.
NPC sprites are sprites that player can talk to (non passable, unalterable).

Zelda games also contain pushable sprites, which look just like some non-passable tiles but can be moved. If a pushable sprite is moved on top of a specific switch tile, it can keep the state held (i.e.. push a statue on a pressure plate).

Most monsters can be killed but others cannot ("trap" effect monsters - spiked rolling balls etc).



5. Items

Zelda games contain 4 item types:

1. Bonus items
- including health bonuses ('medikits'), mana bonuses ('magic rechargers'), arrows, bombs, money, fairies, and other stuff that may appear in unlimited amounts.

2. Armament items
- Weapons, primary weapon upgrades, shield and its upgrades, different armor. Generally only one piece is found in the whole game, sometimes buyable, others can only be found in dungeons. Curiously, the player always finds better weapons, never any worse ones.

3. Keys
- Small and master keys; these only work in the same dungeon they are found in. Used to open doors. (master key used to open the end-of-dungeon-monster-room door)

4. Special items
- Only one of each in the whole game.
- Includes quest items ('gather 7 holy hairpins to save the world'), some of the armament items and other helpful items that generally make it possible for the character to explore more of the world (giant's gloves to throw away some big rocks that have blocked different routes and areas etc). Also includes special power ups such as pieces of heart (4 of which give the player one more heart - or hit point, if you may), bottles (which can be used to store fairies and other power ups), and the ocarina.

The ocarina (which first appeared in Zelda Color, and plays (no pun intended) a major role in 'ocarina of time') is zelda's version of spell casting. Use the item, then play a short tune for Something to happen. Often has to be done in a specific place to trigger events (opening of a dungeon for example) but may include healing or teleportation from anywhere.



6. Battle

The character in zelda has many ways of fighting. Primary way being swordsplay. If the character can hit the enemies with his sword, the enemy loses one (more or less) hit point, and dies when they run out.

If the character's hit points are full, and the character wields a specific sword (generally the best one there is) a lightning also is cast from the sword (zelda1 and zelda3 at least, don't know about zelda color) which is an effective projectile weapon.

If player holds fire for a while and then releases it, the character does a 360
degree swing, possibly killing enemies all around. (in Zelda64 you can also rotate the character 360 and then hit fire which triggers the same effect).

The player can block enemy fire (arrows or their equivalent of swordsplay) by *not* using his sword and facing towards the enemy (thereby using the shield to block).

Other weapons give other ways of fighting. Arrows are projectile (and some enemies are only vulnerable to arrows). Bombs are explosive and can be thrown. Big hammer can flip some enemies (turtles) around and make them vulnerable. Boomerang and hookshot can hit faraway targets but without using ammo.

Each weapon can also have special uses in zelda games. Hookshot and boomerang can be used to fetch items from afar. Bombs can break walls and floors. Most projectiles can be used to trigger switches. The hookshot can be used to pull the character over bottomless pits.



7. NPCs and shops

The npc:s in zelda games are generally extremely simple and boring. You walk to one and click, then read whatever this has to say and that's about covers it. Shops work in a similar manner; you walk in them, pick up an item on the floor and your money goes away. Or you get a message that you can't afford that.


8. Item management

Zelda games generally have action buttons and menu button. In the menu you can assign one to three items in your inventory to action buttons, and then use these items in the game by pressing the assigned button. Fire button (sword) and possibly the 'run' button are both non-assignable. So, in order to use a health potion you must assign it to some action button, resume game, press this action button, return to menus, switch back to some weapon and continue battle.


9. Improvement ideas on the concept

Lighting in general. Dynamic lighting (via extremely simple 2d ray tracing). Field of view. Transparent walls. One-(huge)-room-maps. More complex NPC model. More complex RPG model. Spellcasting. Flow of time. Change of weather, of season. Deeper plots.

lakibuk
09-04-2005, 01:08 PM
Big Zelda fan here.
Zelda 1 - Rather horrible, but had some of the basic elements.Horrible? To me it's the classic Zelda game. Everything evolved from it. I see Zelda 3 as an expanded version of Zelda 1.

Zelda 2 - Side-scrolling platform game that had nothing to do with zelda.Many people seem to hate this part, i totally loved it. I think everything that Zelda stands for can be found in it - brilliant mix of action/adventure mixed with a little bit of RPG.

9. Improvement ideas on the conceptI have to admit i don't like your ideas for improvement. You want to make it more RPG-like which i would be against, cause RPGs basically suck.
My improvement ideas? I don't have any.
It speaks for Miyamoto's genius that you can't think of anything that would make the game better - near perfection.
See Majora's Mask, the new ideas were bad and even made the game less fun.

soniCron
09-04-2005, 01:23 PM
Big Zelda fan here.
Horrible? To me it's the classic Zelda game. Everything evolved from it. I see Zelda 3 as an expanded version of Zelda 1.

Many people seem to hate this part, i totally loved it. I think everything that Zelda stands for can be found in it - brilliant mix of action/adventure mixed with a little bit of RPG.

I have to admit i don't like your ideas for improvement. You want to make it more RPG-like which i would be against, cause RPGs basically suck.
My improvement ideas? I don't have any.
It speaks for Miyamoto's genius that you can't think of anything that would make the game better - near perfection.
See Majora's Mask, the new ideas were bad and even made the game less fun. Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you definitely don't speak for all the Zelda fans.

lakibuk
09-04-2005, 01:26 PM
Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you definitely don't speak for all the Zelda fans.
How can i not speak for myself but for all other people? :confused:

soniCron
09-04-2005, 01:29 PM
How can i not speak for myself but for all other people? :confused: I'm just saying, a lot of what you said would make a lot of the hardcore Zelda fans irate. That's all.

lakibuk
09-04-2005, 01:30 PM
For example?

soniCron
09-04-2005, 03:10 PM
For example? "Everything evolved from [Zelda 1]... ...everything that Zelda stands for can be found in [Zelda 2]... [Zelda 2 is a] brilliant mix of action/adventure mixed with a little bit of RPG... RPGs basically suck... Majora's Mask, the new ideas were bad and even made the game less fun."

AlexN
09-04-2005, 03:34 PM
Most zelda fans dislike the zelda 2. That's my least favorite game in the series.

Michael_Le
09-04-2005, 04:18 PM
I'm a huge Zelda fan and I loved Zelda 2, the music and the atmosphere was great.

Purple
09-04-2005, 04:56 PM
Yeah I didn't like Zelda 2. Thought it was pretty rubbish to be honest. Zelda 1 I loved completely, and for me Zelda 3 was just Zelda 1 only *perfect*. SO atmospheric at the start with the rain chucking down at night. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and play it again, games were so much better when I was a kid :D

(and by that, I mean, I didn't pick holes in them as soon as I play them like I do now. I've kind of ruined games for myself :()

Rainer Deyke
09-04-2005, 05:03 PM
I liked the first four Zelda games, but started to dislike the series when it turned 3D.

One of the big problems with all of the Zelda games (expect Zelda 2) is the time spent on the inventory screen. The 3D Zeldas (Ocarina of Time and Majora's Maks) were actually worse at this than the 2D Zeldas, despite having three slots for equipping items. Here's how I intend to solve this problem in my own game: Fewer items plus item upgrades and skill upgrades instead of a huge pile of specialized items.
Many items are passive - equip them once and then forget about them.
Context-sensitive action button - always uses the right items for the situation.
When talking to an npc who wants item A, and you happen to carry item A, there is no need to manually select item A from the inventory.
If a zone requires item A a lot, don't put in a bunch of places where you also need items B, C, D and E unless there's a really good reason for it.

Ricardo C
09-04-2005, 05:13 PM
Context-sensitive action button - always uses the right items for the situation.

I REALLY like this idea.

botman
09-04-2005, 05:38 PM
Until the player has two items that are both usable and the game picks the wrong one. :P

Ricardo C
09-04-2005, 05:45 PM
Obviously it's not retroactively applicable, but for future games it could most certainly be used.

Sol_HSA
09-04-2005, 08:20 PM
For some reason the zelda3 is "the" zelda for me. I haven't tried the incarnations of zelda after ocarina, so I don't know how it has evolved since.

As to zelda1.. no, it wasn't horrible when it was new. I wrote that several years ago (can't remember exactly, but it may be as much as 6 years ago), and my ideas were a bit different back then.

The 'improvement' ideas. One of the great things about zelda games is their (relative) simplicity. However, since I wasn't about to make a direct clone, I was going to throw something out, and to bring something in.

For instance, dropping the most zelda-ish weapons (hookshot, boomerang, bombs, etc), but dropping in more realistic lighting system, more complicated RPG elements (such as skills) and perhaps time-of-day would have, (methinks) changed the game dramatically enough not to be a direct zelda clone.

Badman
09-05-2005, 06:05 PM
The reason the 3D Zeldas worked so well was because they took every iconic thing from the original series (Triforce, boomerang, big bombs, Master Sword, Hyrulian shield, sliding traps, etc, etc) and recreated them all in a 3D environment in the most intelligent way possible. Thus, the games still feel very "Zelda" despite playing completely differently.

GBGames
09-05-2005, 08:18 PM
As to zelda1.. no, it wasn't horrible when it was new. I wrote that several years ago (can't remember exactly, but it may be as much as 6 years ago), and my ideas were a bit different back then.


Hah! I did a double take and thought that someone from Nintendo had actually decided to start posting here. Then I read the sentence again. B-)

lakibuk
09-05-2005, 11:06 PM
The reason the 3D Zeldas worked so well was because they took every iconic thing from the original series (Triforce, boomerang, big bombs, Master Sword, Hyrulian shield, sliding traps, etc, etc) and recreated them all in a 3D environment in the most intelligent way possible. Thus, the games still feel very "Zelda" despite playing completely differently.
That's right. Same with transfering Super Mario to 3D. Brilliant work.

soniCron
09-05-2005, 11:51 PM
That's right. Same with transfering Super Mario to 3D. Brilliant work. That's a different beast. Not only was Mario64 action oriented in a weapon-less way (ie. introduced the concept of 3D jumping challenges in a 2D projection*), it also broke new ground being the first of its kind. The 3D Zelda's came later as the 3D platformer "genre" was more broken in. Your not liking it isn't a reasonable retort. If you're going to piss on someone, at least grab hold and aim.

*Worst. Idea. Ever.

lakibuk
09-06-2005, 12:00 AM
soniCron: Which retort? I am not liking what? Pissing on whom?

soniCron
09-06-2005, 12:03 AM
soniCron: Which retort? I am not liking what? Pissing on whom? If that post (http://forums.indiegamer.com/showpost.php?p=57959) wasn't sarcastic, I appologize.

lakibuk
09-06-2005, 12:06 AM
Why is everybody misinterpreting my post to be sarcastic lately? :)
I love Super Mario 64 and Zelda, Ocarina of Time. All 3D jump'n'runs that were following are just clones of Super Mario 64.
With brilliant i just wanted to say that they are brilliant.

soniCron
09-06-2005, 12:15 AM
Why is everybody misinterpreting my post to be sarcastic lately? :)
I love Super Mario 64 and Zelda, Ocarina of Time. All 3D jump'n'runs that were following are just clones of Super Mario 64.
With brilliant i just wanted to say that they are brilliant. I can't speak for "everybody," but I'll explain myself. A lot of folks hate Mario64, and when you used such short language and ending with, "Brilliant work," it sounded sarcastic. No harm, no foul. ;)

ERoberts
09-06-2005, 01:04 AM
Mario64 is a MILESTONE in the history of gaming. Just because later games did the same things better doesn't take away from that fact.

Another example: Wolfenstein 3D was a milestone. It doesn't make sense saying that "I hate wolfenstein, FarCry is SO much better".

Kind of sad when aspiring developers turn their back on game history

Badman
09-06-2005, 03:26 AM
I REALLY like this idea.

I don't like a context-sensitive interface. When adventure games went context-sensitive (with the later King's Quest and Space Quest entries) the games became much easier (not necessarily a bad thing) but they also began to feel much more linear and like the player had far less control (because he did).

Ricardo C
09-06-2005, 04:47 AM
But in a game with such a strong action element as the Zelda games, I think it could actually work to make the experience more fluid. I didn't mind keeping track of my inventory in the earlier games, but ever since the series went 3D, I would definitely welcome some simplification.

vjvj
09-06-2005, 12:44 PM
The problem with *not* having context-based interface is that you end up with crap like Splinter Cell where you have a seperate button for EVERYTHING ("what button do I press to do splits in the wall again?"). I really hate that.

Like everything, it's a balance. There's a point where you always know what the user is intending to do, so just do it.

The jumping in Ocarina is a perfect example. You run off the edge and Link jumps automatically. Perfect... Reduces the number of stupid falling deaths and makes level balance much much easier for the developer. Purists will say that they think of it as more of a "challenge" to have to jump yourself, but Zelda isn't a jumping puzzle game. My mindset when I'm playing Zelda is adventuring, and the game should focus the experience on that.

With regards to inventory, I actually found myself doing inventory management LESS in Ocarina, since you have more hotkeys than you did in the old Zeldas. But I admit, having to switch boots out all the time was annoying :)

Coincidentally, I never did buy Link to the Past (which I assume is what you guys are referring to as Zelda 3?) until just last week: Picked up the GBA version and am loving it so far!

DangerCode
09-07-2005, 12:01 PM
I'm just saying, a lot of what you said would make a lot of the hardcore Zelda fans irate. That's all.

Certainly not this hardcore Zelda fan. I imagine more hardcore Zelda fans would be irrate over the claim that Zelda 1 was "rather horrible".

What gives with this thread? What's with the hostility?

Ska Software
09-07-2005, 12:44 PM
I haven't really liked Zelda after the Legend of Zelda, which I played like fifty billion times when I was 10. I never had SNES and resented all things SNES (cause I didn't have one) including Zelda 3.

I liked Zelda 64 better, but that really stuck with original Zelda more than Zelda 3 I felt.