Planning a level.

[DanDanger]

I was wondering how everyone plans their levels/games.

For Keith Goes Painting (www.wolfys.co.uk) I started construction by messing about in the map editor i'd built. After about a week or so of this I was still messing about so I switched to a big sheet of paper. I layed out the whole game (it's one big house) on the paper, placing all the game objects with pencil so I could move them around using an eraser. I ended up putting a lot of stuff on tiny individual post it notes (mmmm.. yellow joy) so I could move things around without resorting to rubbing holes in the paper. I then went back to the map editor and constructed the game pretty much exactly as I layed it out. This was pretty useful for the gfx guy as I just gave him a copy of the paper map and he could see what gfx were needed straight away.

Anyway, I thought this whole paper+postit method was a little non-technical (retro even?) but it did stop me from simply messing around in the map editor.

[sparkyboy]

Well Dan, first of all welcome to the newly formed DESIGN forum. Thankyou Mike and the rest! ;)

In the past, I didn't so much use paper and pen, more often it was brain and computer.That's not to say I didn't jot down the odd idea or two, but when it came down to it, basically, I just translated pseudo ideas/thoughts directly into code.If it didn't work, I went back and tweaked it here and there, not very proficient, nor professional but it got the job done in the end! :D

Need to organize properly methinks!! :p

All the best


Mark.

[svero]

I tend to hardcode my initial level designs when im still at the proof of concept/prototyping phase. Usually as text strings.

I usually implement an editor shortly after im happy with a few sample levels.

I also have a general level editor that can be used for a variety of scrolling games.

[Ska Software]

hardcode
:dies a little inside:


I'd say stick with pencil and paper--that way you can create a design without letting production stop the flow of creativity; i.e. you can plot out a level complete with stuff that hasn't been implemented in your game engine.

[svero]

Well my computer is my sketchpad.. im comfortable inside my engine.. which can do pretty much anything i want. Ocassionally I'll break out a paint app and do some design in there, but generally I can get ideas up and running real fast. I dont feel restricted by it. I feel empowered.

[Black Hydra]

I suppose it really depends on what game you are designing the level for.

I have always done it with pen or pencil on paper. That said, I usually only do rough versions through sketch leaving the details until I go to the editor.

[Adrian Cummings]

Hi,

Personally in the past I would of used a hombrew map editor for 2d games but now I just use MapWin and Photoshop and if it gets really complex I import the data as bmp from MapWin to Photoshop and stitch it all together (but that is/was rare) so generally (personally speaking) I just layout all the maps and layers in the map editor and go from there.

Cheers,

Adrian.

[Phil Steinmeyer]

I've always had level editors in the 'big commercial' games I've done before (Railroad Tycoon 2/3, Tropico, HOMM), but for my current puzzle game, I fell back on graph paper, cut down into roughly 3 x 4 size (big enough to sketch a single level/puzzle). This made it easy to lay them out on the floor, and arrange them so the level progression felt right.

[Christian]

Well, i made a discovery not so long ago. Its incredibly much better to let the computer make the levels for you, this provides and infinite quantity of levels. But to make the computer make good levels, you have to make some yourself in pen and paper, make some levels, and then you have to analize how YOU designed those levels, what was your creative process, so you can make the computer do it for you. You could even have 3 or 4 styles of levels to make them even better.
This also reduces the time you work on a project because testing levels and making them takes so much time, the levels made by the computer are all perfect.
Maybe when you program your code for the automatic level design you could spend the same time making 10 levels, but then the code you made will be worth and infinite quantity of levels.

[sparkyboy]

This also reduces the time you work on a project because testing levels and making them takes so much time, the levels made by the computer are all perfect.
Maybe when you program your code for the automatic level design you could spend the same time making 10 levels, but then the code you made will be worth and infinite quantity of levels.

Well with my old static screen puzzle game, there were no computer generated levels, all were designed by me by hand, using a 'quick and dirty' screen designer to plot the backgrounds and other tokens that the player interacted with.
Every plot just spat out a few varaiables into an array that when the game played, once you calculate the player position, it was merely a question of determining what bonus/wall etc was at that position, then react accordingly.
Real simple stuff in effect!! :)

But, jeeez.....designing the later levels took a bleeding age!! :eek: .I would start at first by drawing the screens on paper, but once the levels became more complex I would just plot a basic level quickly, then add all the tokens to interact with..... test...... change...... test.... add..... test!!Phewwwww!! :D
Designing levels sure aint QUICK(not in my experience anyhoo!)

All the best


Mark.

[DanDanger]

Well, i made a discovery not so long ago. Its incredibly much better to let the computer make the levels for you, this provides and infinite quantity of levels.

I find that if im playing a game with randomly generated (to a point) levels that I loose all interest in the game. I just despise it! I don't know if this is a programmer thing but I just cannot play a game when I know it has been randomly generated.

[Savant]

Did you like Cosmic Bugs?

[oNyx]

Whatever works best for you.

I personally like laying out the rough geometry first (in the editor). Changes can be done quickly then. Then a test and refinement loop until I'm satisfied. Then the same with item placement and finally details/candy (if any).

Its similar to drawing or modelling. First the general shape/volume and then detailing.

It does take quite alot of iterations and thus time, but the result is usually pretty good (about the best you can come up with). Other approaches can of course yield results which are about as good, but getting the scale/flow right is easier this way. Applying level design patterns is also easier. Eg things like "debalancing" a deathmatch map or secrets (+hints) in a platformer.

Well, that works for first person shooters or jump/shoot'n'runs. Dunno how to approach fun racers or shoot'em ups... yet.

---

And generated levels... well, thats ok for puzzles or logic mazes. Mummy Maze generated once a really inhuman level... it was really awesome! By far the best level ever :)

[tunca]

I used randomly generated levels with little tweek by hand. I couldn't get good results. I had started the game as an action puzzle, but the random generation was enough just to get the action part. Now I'm planning to make a level editor and add the puzzling features. I suppose the computer generation should be coded very wisely to get good results.

Well, indirectly related to the subject, I made a randomly generated music for the same game (Age of Robots). Not perfect, but it works! :D I recommend this for people who suffer making music. I'm planning to extend my simple music generation design. I think I'll get better results.

[DanMarshall]

I do a 'low res' thumbnail drawing in pencil, then get straight into the map editor.

Since adding my (admittedly flakey 2nd player AI), I then re-jig the map slightly to accommodate his inadequacies...

d

[DanDanger]

Did you like Cosmic Bugs?

Yes I love cosmic bugs! Its a fantastic game! Of course now you're going to tell me that its all randomly generated from a single number aren't you, thus making me look quite the fool !

[Savant]

Yeah, sorry. :)

Scroll to the bottom - last question (http://www.gamesavant.com/_articles/showarticle.php?game=28)

[James C. Smith]

>> thus making me look quite the fool

Or making Mike look brilliant for doing such a good job of making random levels look meaning full? Nah'. You are the fool. :D

[dislekcia]

The only levels I usually make are puzzles, so I use a random generator to "seed" ideas and possible mechanics and then put those in polished designs on paper. It's a lot easier to clean up a randomly generated dirty level and often that inspires a sequence of similar or related puzzles.

-D