EXE Wrapping Questions

[Phil Steinmeyer]

Some questions mainly about the business side of EXE wrapping (i.e. for 60 minute trials, which can then be unlocked to full version by the user):

1) Is the wrapping tool married to the Ordering Site? (i.e. Do you typically use RegNow's tool for posting to RegNow, Plimus for Plimus, etc.) I saw some information on RegNow's site about wrapping for free using their tool, but I saw nothing on Plimus about this.

2) If wrapping tools are separate from the ordering site, how do you get the keys to the user? And what are the main wrapping tools people use? Any comparitive advantages to one over the other?

3) How about for Macintosh? It appears that RedMarble forces you to make a separate download of the full version after you've bought (i.e. you can't just unlock the demo), whereas PlayFirst, for Mac Diner Dash, appears to have a traditional unlocking mechanic.

Thanks in advance...

[Sybixsus]

1) Regnow give you a free version of Software Passport. I think other Digital River sites do the same. It can only be used with Digital River e-commerce sites. The others generally expect you to use your own.

2) Software Passport must be the most popular one for Windows. It's kinda pricey, but it really does the job, and professionally too. It's practically impossible to crack so keeping up with stolen keys is all you need to do. I'm pretty sure that all of the major e-commerce providers will automatically send out Software Passport ( Aka Armadillo ) keys. All the ones we've ever tried do anyway, including Plimus and Regnow ( since you mentioned those.)

3) We'd like to know the answer to this too. We have a couple of games which could be ported to Mac in an hour or two, but without a good protection system, it's another story entirely.

[DFG]

How hard would it be to incorporate reg key delivery into a regular old ecommerce system?

[arcadetown]

Lots of options.

A) Separate demo and full versions, the user only gets the full version after purchase.

B) Full unprotected version that can be wrapped and maybe wrapper api included for game to activate nagging features. We use Armadillo/SoftwarePassport which most large payment processors support such as BMT, Plimus, Regnow, etc. There's also Trymedia's or Reflexive's wrappers which only work under their respective payment systems. Those have neat features but then you're tied down to those payment systems and whatever drawbacks they may have (affiliate support issues, author split pay, online payment issues, etc).

On Mac the only one I'm aware of is e-sellerate. Many guys provide option A or build their own keygen.

[arcadetown]

How hard would it be to incorporate reg key delivery into a regular old ecommerce system?
If you're talking Armadillo/SoftwarePassport then not hard at all. If you're talking the author's home grown keygen system then in your case you'll probably want to avoid since you'll be exposed to any potential issues each dev's homegrown keygen has. Multiply that by numerous authors and can easily end up with a support nightmare.

[Musenik]

The Witch's Yarn is available on Red Marble Games as a single download that unlocks with purchase. The Kagi in-game purchase system works fine for affiliates.

[DFG]

Why aren't most developers bypassing the higher fees of RegNow, BMT etc. and saving 6%+ a sale and using a regular ol ecommerce system?

As a distributor, I am not sure my developer/publisher partners would go for letting the unprotected full version out...

[ErikH2000]

How hard would it be to incorporate reg key delivery into a regular old ecommerce system?
If you buy SoftwarePassport, you can request PHPs or C code that generates reg keys that will unlock wrapped trial versions. It's free, but you have to be a customer and specifically ask for it.

-Erik

[Phil Steinmeyer]

OK, so I've been fooling with RegNow (which seem to be the two that most people use...) a bit today and am confused.

Re RegNow. Did I hear correctly that they let you use Armadillo/Software Passport for free? If so, I didn't see it.

Anyways, my main issue with RegNow is that in their user agreement, page 5, under "What do you promise to us", 3rd clause, they say

>>
In consideration of using our affiliiate network [snip] you agree that you will not display links, redirects, or direct traffic of any means to a non-DR Affiliate Network supported ecommerce system.
<<

By my reading, this makes RegNow all-or-nothing. You couldn't put up a Plimus link. I guess you could privately e-mail affiliates the Plimus link as long as you don't post it on your site, but regardless, this sounds really harsh and a big turnoff.



Thanks,
Phil

[ErikH2000]

Dunno about the other stuff, but...

Second, they say they can auto-generate Armadillo keys. But that's all they say - no details on how to do it, and under My Account - License Management, all they seem to provide for is cutting and pasting a bunch of keys you've manually generated. Do they have to set up Armadillo support custom for you?
No, you can enable it per-contract. After you set up a contract, select it, then there is a "License Keys" option. Click on that and you see a dropdown option for license keys to be generated from "Armadillo registration keys". Then there's some stuff to fill out so that keys are generated as you want them, and you add a "<license_keys>" macro to your order response e-mail.

Also, if you don't like Plimus' key generation for some reason, you can generate your own SoftwarePassport (Armadillo) keys in a PHP that is called by the Plimus order process.

-Erik

[arcadetown]

Why aren't most developers bypassing the higher fees of RegNow, BMT etc. and saving 6%+ a sale and using a regular ol ecommerce system?
Considered using merchant account directly but don't for various reasons such as sales tax collection, affiliate support, fraud detection, author split pay, multiple forms of payment support, check processing, etc. Offloading all that crap and the time it would otherwise take to maintain makes the 6% difference worth it for me.

[cliffski]

>>
In consideration of using our affiliiate network [snip] you agree that you will not display links, redirects, or direct traffic of any means to a non-DR Affiliate Network supported ecommerce system.
<<

Phil

That sounds insane, maybe its a new clause? I use regnow and plimus. If I had to choose just 1 it would be plimus, this is insanity on their behalf.

[Jack Norton]

>>
In consideration of using our affiliiate network [snip] you agree that you will not display links, redirects, or direct traffic of any means to a non-DR Affiliate Network supported ecommerce system.
<<

That sounds insane...bah :(

[Red Marble Games]

To get back to the question of Mac wrappers, mentioned several posts ago -- I use both methods (single version unlocks with key/separate demo and full versions), depending on the preferences of my Windows partner or other considerations. All of (edited) games, for example, unlock with a key, so the Mac versions do that too. And eSellerate is good in those instances because it has a nice in-game purchase system (which Plimus and others don't, at least on the Mac). It ends up being a pretty complete DRM solution.

For other games it doesn't make sense to have a single version, particularly where the full version is really large. (edited) is a good example -- the full version is 23 megs or so. So you really have to have separate versions. In that case the eSellerate advantages are less, and I've started using Plimus for that kind of arrangement.

[arcadetown]

Edited names of games in prior post. Please try to avoid identifying particular games and their wrapping mechanisms. We don't want to be an open resource for hackers.

[Phil Steinmeyer]

Some follow-ups.

Jon Bakken at RegNow has told me that I do understand that clause correctly - they demand exclusivity if you participate in their affiliate program.

Also, he has told me that Software Passport has recently added support for the Macintosh (which would solve another headache, and make an exclusive relationship with RegNow less of a problem for me). However, nowhere on Software Passport's site http://siliconrealms.com/srt-news.shtml, nor in their forums, could I find any indication of Mac support. Googling turns up nothing, either. Does anyone know about Mac support by Software Passport/Armadillo?

[Jack Norton]

I own it, but no news about this mac version... maybe the regnow guy has some very fresh news ;)

[ErikH2000]

Some follow-ups.
Jon Bakken at RegNow has told me that I do understand that clause correctly - they demand exclusivity if you participate in their affiliate program.
Holy crap! That's a really terrible policy. There's a bunch of people now that use RegNow just for affiliates and another processor for their primary orders. I wonder if the clause was recently added? I was looking forward to using RegNow for affiliates, but I can't imagine doing that now.

-Erik

[arcadetown]

There's a bunch of people now that use RegNow just for affiliates and another processor for their primary orders.
My bet is that clause means any game placed in their system must be special builds prepared for their system. If your in game purchase link pointed elsewhere then their affiliates don't get sales credit and the whole network would fall apart.

[Sybixsus]

I've been setting up with RegNow and have received a few emails from RegNow regarding their rather obtuse setup. Everything they've told me is in line with how Brian reads it. They offer two levels of affiliate verification. One for the product and one for the website. They wouldn't have it split in two like that if you weren't allowed to have other links on your website. Providing the downloads you offer are direct and cannot go to your Plimus order page, it's fine. I plan to do this with custom builds, but if the affiliate is happy with the cookie method, and providing you have a generic regnow build and a generic plimus build, the result should be the same.