PomPom (Bongpig)-EDGE Magazines 3 Page article !

[alfie]

Anybody else read/seen the article?

It would be interesting to know what you think?

My thoughts are that they are making some very shrewd moves. First, they have an old friend/colleague who is their agent (John Cook). Second, the applied for patent on a game mechanic and using this as leverage to promote a game called Bliss and of course PomPom and maybe it will also secure some funding for work on the DS or xbox 360.

All great stuff IMHO.

BTW the article gives the name of PomPom's artist as Michael Michael, is this a typo/error or is that is real name?

[soniCron]

Anybody else read/seen the article? Is there an online version, or is someone willing to transcribe it?

[svero]

Patent on a game mechanic...? ugh... Thats terrible.

- S

[luggage]

The patent stuff is dissappointing to see. Good job no-one had patented the shooting things mechanic before them eh?

[cliffski]

Its a good article, its good to see 2 articles in one magazine about how to make games differently from the traditional AAA method (which sucks). And good to see such a small team being taken so seriously.
But I agree, patenting the mechanic sucks. The way I see it, if id software can invent the first person shooter and not patent it, and still be millionaires many times over, then there really is no excuse for the rest of us.
How many games would never have happened if the RTS, FPS and MMORPG had been patented?
Bah.

[alfie]

Patent on a game mechanic...? ugh... Thats terrible.

- S

When I first read the article yesterday, that was also my response. But I read it again and a good think about it. The thing is that they have applied for it and as far as I can tell it's not been granted yet, so there maybe prior art. So in the meantime they can use this as leverage for deals or funding or whatever.

If there is no prior art, it's truly something novel that they have invented/discovered and they are granted a patent then I think it's fair. They are in effect only trying to protect their IP and build/sustain their business in the smartest way they can.

[luggage]

You might consider it fair but I don't. The point still stands - where would we be if people patented game mechanics left, right and center when they first came out.

Nowhere.

[tolik]

Nintendo has patented one of the game modes from late Panel De Pon title (Pokemon Puzzle League) where the puzzle game field is mapped on to a 360' circle so you could rotate/spin it. The patent is far more complex, but it does already exist since 1998... Think it's worth a mention that game mechanics were previously patented.

[princec]

Under EU law they can't patent a game mechanic so I'm not sure what Mike's up to here :/ Maybe they're applying in the US?

Cas :)

[BongPig]

message deleted

[Nexic]

Surely a patent would make sure you are the first to bring it to the market, and it would make sure you're the last?

I can see your point of view, but you are helping to perpetuate a bad set of laws and values.

[Martoon]

I haven't read the article, either (and would also appreciate an online version/transcription), but I'm really, really disappointed in the patent. Coming from most developers, I would be peaved, but from a developer whose work I admire so much, I'm deeply disappointed.

I'm sure PomPom will do a fine job of implementing this gameplay mechanic, but a patent would prevent anyone else from ever doing an even better implementation, and lob off the entire, rich tree of inventive gameplay that could no doubt be derived from it in the future.

[princec]

Mike, it's not a new style of gameplay. For a start it's just a simulation of an existing physical process which mean's it's not novel or unique in any way. And secondly it's almost identical to a certain game involving sticks and balls played for centuries which is what you based the simulation on. I really don't think you should waste your money on the patent as a) it's invalid in Europe and b) will probably be found to be invalid everywhere else and c) will just cost you loads of money and d) will alienate you in the developer community pretty seriously...

Cas :)

[svero]

Well.. I've invented new play mechanics several times, that I personally havent seen in other games. I would never dream of trying to patent them because I believe it's generally harmful to our business as a whole. I feel much the same way about this as I do software patents. How would you feel if you solved the problem of displaying your game mechanic using a natural logical algorithm only to have someone say you cant use that algorithm because they've patented it?

I think patents do have a certain place in business.. play mechanics in games isn't one of them. I can definitely image fooling around with some prototypes and coming up with a very similar mechanic to that found in Bliss. May or may not happen, but to me it's very much unlike inventing the microwave or a medicinal cure for some disease.

[BongPig]

I knew it was a mistake replying to this post.
Im deleting my last reply and going to bid you all farewell. Ive had alot of fun here over the years, but clearly we're at a different place right now to this community.

Best of luck all. I *really* mean that. :)

[Nexic]

Gameplay mechanics are usually very simple, and are pretty much just an idea that popped into your head. It's an idea that many people have already had, and that many people in the future will likely have, without knowing anything about your game.

[DangerCode]

I realize patents are a delicate subject amongst software developers but I could see myself aquiring a patent if I thought I had come up with something worth protecting myself over. Not because I'd want to be an evil overlord or something, but because I wouldn't want some big wig aquiring a patent after the fact and then coming after me with their corporate lawyers.

Having said that, it isn't something I think about much and I doubt I'll ever get one for anything, but I'm willing to give PomPom the benefit of the doubt.

[princec]

BongPig has left the building.

Cas :)

[luggage]

...but because I wouldn't want some big wig aquiring a patent after the fact and then coming after me with their corporate lawyers.I didn't think they could. You'd have prior art.

It's all well and good saying they only want the patent so they can be first to market but once they're first to market will they enforce it after that?

The games industry wouldn't be what it is today if people patented each new game mechanic at the dawn of video games.

[alfie]

I knew it was a mistake replying to this post.
Im deleting my last reply and going to bid you all farewell. Ive had alot of fun here over the years, but clearly we're at a different place right now to this community.

Best of luck all. I *really* mean that. :)

I for one would have liked to see that reply that you deleted. I feel a bit bad now that I started this thread and the result of it is that you are bidding farewell to the community :( . Maybe you could just drop by some time in the future?

[luggage]

To paraphrase it.. basically the patent is so they can ensure they're first to market. :rolleyes:

[DangerCode]

I didn't think they could. You'd have prior art.

But it does happen. They don't have to beat you in court, they just have to beat you in court costs.

I'm probably going to scruff up the details a bit, but I remember someone putting in a patent for online avatars and then threatening to sue the MMO market. I also remember Amazon putting in a patent for "One-click shopping" and then going after other online retailers.

If, for whatever reason, Sony, or Nintendo, or Microsoft decided to patent something that one of us just happen to be already doing then that could spell big trouble.

It's all well and good saying they only want the patent so they can be first to market but once they're first to market will they enforce it after that?

I don't know. He indicated he wasn't interested in that kind of maneurving in his now deleted post. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[z3lda]

To paraphrase it.. basically the patent is so they can ensure they're first to market. :rolleyes:

First and Last.

[DangerCode]

First and Last.

I don't think we're being fair to BongPig. He simply didn't say that.

[joelfinch]

Regards the patent thing, consider this : If any of you created a new style of gameplay, dont you deserve to at least be the first to bring it to market?When a novelist writes a new story, he or she gets to publish it first thanks to copyright.

A novel is very much like a computer program - it has a plot structure, grammar rules, choices of language constructions - in short, a set of principles, created or chosen by its author, which make it function better (or worse) than its competitors.

When you come up with an idea for a new game mechanic, it's a creative effort, don't get me wrong, but it's in the same league as writing a new twist on a detective novel. Copyright applies but nobody deserves a patent.

(And for the record, I'm not a coder undervaluing the long-suffering game designer's job; it's my exact job that I'm commenting on here.)

My suggestion - rather than trying to stop people stealing your great idea, focus on making the world's best version of it yourself, so there's no room for those who follow to do it better.

[cliffski]

"Regards the patent thing, consider this : If any of you created a new style of gameplay, dont you deserve to at least be the first to bring it to market?"


NO YOU DO NOT.

What if you sit on your ass for 5 years and dont get the game made? what if it becomes the next duke nukem forever? worse still, what if you just arent capable of making the game a reality? All those companies that could have taken that idea (maybe arrived at independetly) and made a good product should just go ski-ing?

Capitalism rewards innovation. it also rewards efficiency and organisation and speed. Amazon might not have invented online selling, but they did it better and faster and bigger than the competition.
Coming up with an idea for something and then making the best and most efficient use of that ideas potential are too different skills. A good businessman will combine a good ideas man (often a games designer) with a good businessman. If you dont have both, you fail, and SO YOU SHOULD, thats capitalism encouraging efficiency.

[DangerCode]

Amazon might not have invented online selling, but they did it better and faster and bigger than the competition.

Maybe we're talking past each other, but that was my point. Amazon didn't event online selling but they sued other retailers that had been selling online for years (like Barnes and Noble).

[cliffski]

yeah they are wrong to use patents, as they could easily have been rendered none xistant by people patenting theitr whole way of business.
my point is that he who has the patents != best in industry.

[DangerCode]

my point is that he who has the patents != best in industry.

You'll hear no argument from me there! :D

[Jim Buck]

I also didn't read his posting before he deleted it, but what is it he's patenting? A search for "Bliss AND PomPom" on Google doesn't turn up anything relevant.

[soniCron]

Can someone please enlighten me. What is this revolutionary game mechanic that's being patented?

[Black Hydra]

Frankly I think having something patented is marketting that writes itself. I'd probably play the game just to figure out what was so original it required a patent? Curious...

[Raptisoft]

I today applied for a patent on impotent flailing, SO GET READY TO GET SUED, SUCKERS!

[tWp]

I also remember Amazon putting in a patent for "One-click shopping" and then going after other online retailers.


http://linuxtoday.com/mailprint.php3?action=pv&ltsn=2001-03-14-005-21-OP-BZ-CY


"People in many areas of commerce, not just on the Web but also TV and radio (as evidenced by some of our prior art submissions), have put a lot of thought into making the shopping experience quicker and easier. And yet none of these folks really managed to simplify it to the same degree that Amazon did with 1-Click"

That was from the guy who offered $10,000 for someone to prove prior-art.

[svero]

So nobody made a site where you could click to buy before amazon? Big deal! It's such a nothing thing. It falls out quite naturally from the increase in online shopping and internet use. I don't think people should be allowed to patent stuff that is easy to come up with, or falls out naturally as a result of solving normal every-day problems as technology or access to technology increases. Patents were put in place to help inventors and to encourage research and development. Software patents tend to do the exact opposite. They stifle innovation and are used as a dirty tool in business. I think much of the problem comes about as a result of people not really understanding software.

[princec]

What annoys me about the Amazon patent is that like all computer code it's just a formal specification of an existing process. In this case, buying something, and remembering who you are - which has been done for thousands of years. All Amazon have done is formally specify the precise sequence of events. As such they really should never have been granted the patent. Grrr.

Cas :)

[Anthony Flack]

Huh, I would have liked to have heard more about the article.

But I'm quite opposed to this software patents business myself. Does anyone remember, back when I used to care, that I used to say, "hey, all this blatant cloning that's going on... just you wait. Soon enough it won't just be old arcade games - we'll be ripping off each others' games directly. And then people will start taking out patents".

So I was disappointed to hear about this, too. To say nothing of Bongpig's mysterious "oh well, goodbye forever" response. I don't really care about the indie games "scene" much any more, since it's mostly just a cynical money-making exercise these days. But I still care enough to object to software patents... and I am sorry that people now feel they need this protection.

[soniCron]

Please, can someone tell me what the PomPom patent is for? Thanks!

[Jim Buck]

Uhh, yeah, what soniCron said. :)

[Abscissa]

Please, can someone tell me what the PomPom patent is for? Thanks!
Yes, I'd like to know too. And also whether it's already been awarded, or if it's just pending.

[PoV]

Clearly only one person here subscribes to Edge. But say the magic word "software patent", and the community explodes with anger and disgust, and fills 2 pages with comments.

[cliffski]

the article:

"The idea was that Missile Commands expanding circular explosions would push objects away rather than destroy them, giving them a vector. When gravity was added to the equation, it created something rather like juggling..."

"Cook was so impressed with the NOVELTY of this mechanic, that he saw it as pricelss intellectual property, and in need of protection"

"In the patent application weve called it ane xpanding boundary, to make it more generalised, so that rather than just games, it could apply to any kind of application"

Good job nobody had patented missile command then eh?

[soniCron]

"The idea was that Missile Commands expanding circular explosions would push objects away rather than destroy them, giving them a vector. When gravity was added to the equation, it created something rather like juggling..."

"Cook was so impressed with the NOVELTY of this mechanic, that he saw it as pricelss intellectual property, and in need of protection" Whoa. He lost my respect with that call. That's pathetic.

[Dominique Biesmans]

the article:

"The idea was that Missile Commands expanding circular explosions would push objects away rather than destroy them, giving them a vector. When gravity was added to the equation, it created something rather like juggling..."



Circular explosions + pushing objects away + gravity = Sounds like PuffBOMB (http://www.sykhronics.com/?recent.php) to me. (try it if you haven't, it's fun). Prior Art?

[Ricardo C]

the article:

"The idea was that Missile Commands expanding circular explosions would push objects away rather than destroy them, giving them a vector. When gravity was added to the equation, it created something rather like juggling..."

"Cook was so impressed with the NOVELTY of this mechanic, that he saw it as pricelss intellectual property, and in need of protection"

"In the patent application weve called it ane xpanding boundary, to make it more generalised, so that rather than just games, it could apply to any kind of application"

Good job nobody had patented missile command then eh?

That's their great invention? Pathetic.

"In the patent application weve called it ane xpanding boundary, to make it more generalised, so that rather than just games, it could apply to any kind of application"

I'm reading this as "In the patent application we made a point of making the name vague, in order to be able to hold it over not only game developers, but maybe visual fx companies, too".

I hope someone in Europe clones their "invention" just for the fun of it.

[princec]

It's already been done to death in numerous games. Soldat for example, with the M79 rocket jump. Gravity, circular explosion, etc. all already done. I just can't see why the hell they're wasting their time on trying to get it patented.

Cas :)

[luggage]

the article:

"The idea was that Missile Commands expanding circular explosions would push objects away rather than destroy them, giving them a vector. When gravity was added to the equation, it created something rather like juggling..."

"Cook was so impressed with the NOVELTY of this mechanic, that he saw it as pricelss intellectual property, and in need of protection"

"In the patent application weve called it ane xpanding boundary, to make it more generalised, so that rather than just games, it could apply to any kind of application"

Good job nobody had patented missile command then eh?Not that much difference between that and all those flash juggling games really. If they think their game mechanic is so genius maybe they should just get the game done on the quiet and put it out there? If someone beats them to the punch it would be because they came up with the idea as well.

As developers we stand on the shoulders of giants. If it wasn't for those people not patenting everything they did we wouldn't be here today (in a making games sense).

[tolik]

I could see Bejeweled 2 power gem (the one which is created by match of four-in-a-row) affected here.

[soniCron]

Soldat for example, with the M79 rocket jump. Hell, the Quake rocket jump!

[DangerCode]

Thinking back to some of the sentiments Bongpig has shared with us on game clones (and Snood in particular) it's pretty obvious that he's worried that one of the big boys will come along, clone his game, and publish it through their massive portals - effectively outselling him with his own product.

Personally, I think his fears may be a little unfounded, which might make a good discussion on another thread, but regardless I think you guys are being a little tough on the poor chap.

"Why can't we all just get along?" :D

[KNau]

Perhaps they were required to sign away a portion of their soul to get their games on the X-Box. That's the only logical reason for this course of action that I can think of.

[Ricardo C]

Thinking back to some of the sentiments Bongpig has shared with us on game clones (and Snood in particular) it's pretty obvious that he's worried that one of the big boys will come along, clone his game, and publish it through their massive portals - effectively outselling him with his own product.

Personally, I think his fears may be a little unfounded, which might make a good discussion on another thread, but regardless I think you guys are being a little tough on the poor chap.

He's the one that deleted his explanation and then said he was getting out of here for good. If he's not even going to be polite enough to state his position, what do we owe him?

"Why can't we all just get along?" :D

Careful, I hear Rodney King patented that ;)

[Robert Cummings]

There's a japanese flash game which requires you to fire little air balloons which which explode to keep the little character from hitting the floor.

It's total prior art, I can't remember where I saw it, it was on a site by a student of game design (although he didn't make the game).

Another worthless patent thrown out. I can make this game identical and the dude couldn't sue me at all.

He's the one that deleted his explanation and then said he was getting out of here for good. If he's not even going to be polite enough to state his position, what do we owe him?Is he gone, damn I must have missed something incredibly unimportant happening :D

[Anthony Flack]

Hey, no need for all this personal slagging off. Pom Pom have done great things, and this forum is definitely worse off without Bongpig's input. Just be sorry that people now feel the need to protect themselves with patents.

Although personally, I think the clones will start to come if, and only if, Bliss is a big succcess - and not before. I think that if it is a big success, they will come regardless of patents. I also think that if any large company wants to infringe on your patent, they will, and you won't be able to stop them.

[soniCron]

Just be sorry that people now feel the need to protect themselves with patents. That's the problem, that they feel they:

need to protect themselves, and
patents are going to serve that need.

I think it's a crock of shit and PomPom is certainly not going to be safe with a patent on a game idea. The competition is not in making clones, it's in making clones better, and that's exactly what patents don't protect. It's a blanket protective measure that probably won't hold water in the first place and clearly upsets their peers. And at the first sight of upset, Bongpig up and left. I haven't much respect for that kind of attitude; hanging around as long as things are cool and kosher. Musenik got similar flack about Mouschief's patent a while back, and nobody "stormed out" to prove anything; everyone's friends again.

EDIT: Nevermind.
EDIT: EDIT: (about the "edit," that is!)

[Jim Buck]

I think Mr. Flack and Howard Aiken have hit it on the head:

"Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will have to ram it down their throats."
Howard Aiken (1900 - 1973)

[Robert Cummings]

I think the announcement of the patent will cause developers to pause long enough before imitating it. It gives him a head start if anything.

[tolik]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/press_release.php?aid=10506

[TimS]

nice....

raise your hand if you've got an XBox360 dev kit for your indie title that's under development....

congrats to PomPom on that one... besides... they didn't sell their soul to Microsoft... just mebbe took a few notes from them on when and where to file for patents: ( adding and removing white space from documents ) (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&p=1&S1=%28%28Adding.TTL.+AND+Removing.TTL.%29+AND+Whit e.TTL.%29&OS=TTL/Adding+and+TTL/Removing+and+TTL/White&RS=((TTL/Adding+AND+TTL/Removing)+AND+TTL/White))

In some sense, PomPom has 'graduated' from what we commonly think of as 'indie' around here... in that they likely now do not have full design control over their products... the big M may have a thing or two to say about the games as they are put together -- and as a trade off, they get to release with the launch of a new console system. It's just one of many fun ways to go about making entertainment products... which is fun, right?

[Nikster]

I agree with Sir Flack here, BongPig has given me good advice over the last couple of years, the only shame about all of this is the people who rely on cloning due to lack of innovation and it's just easier to "remake" concepts or add a new "weapon" horray, this is how the mainstream retail is turning, everyone is copying each other producing the same shit. I don't see why people are being so aggresive to PomPom, bearing in mind Cook isn't PomPom, but hey, we need fire for all the new trolls that have appeared :rolleyes:

carry on, I'm just waiting for the "It's not fair, because it will mean me reclaiming my job at McDonalds tossing fries" ;)

[cliffski]

I agree with Sir Flack here, BongPig has given me good advice over the last couple of years, the only shame about all of this is the people who rely on cloning due to lack of innovation and it's just easier to "remake" concepts or add a new "weapon" horray, this is how the mainstream retail is turning, everyone is copying each other producing the same shit. I don't see why people are being so aggresive to PomPom, bearing in mind Cook isn't PomPom, but hey, we need fire for all the new trolls that have appeared :rolleyes:

carry on, I'm just waiting for the "It's not fair, because it will mean me reclaiming my job at McDonalds tossing fries" ;)

maybe you should phone up DICE and tell them that battlefield 2 is a clone of Wolfenstein 3D and they shouldnt have bothered? or is it ok for a big company to do a cloned WW2 FPS, but not ok if its an indie developer with less lawyers?
If patenting the flipping obvious and giving creative control to microsoft means 'graduating', ill stay an undergraduate thanks.

[luggage]

People are being "aggressive" to PomPom because if everyone had the same attitude of patenting a game mechanic then the game industry would have got absoutely nowhere.

[Nikster]

maybe you should phone up DICE and tell them that battlefield 2 is a clone of Wolfenstein 3D and they shouldnt have bothered? or is it ok for a big company to do a cloned WW2 FPS, but not ok if its an indie developer with less lawyers?
If patenting the flipping obvious and giving creative control to microsoft means 'graduating', ill stay an undergraduate thanks.

Wolfenstein 3D is a clone of 3d Maze on the ZX81, should I ring ID first ? ;)
Oddly enough, Cook also had dealings with BF2 as well :rolleyes:
Hey, if you're happy in your current situation why would you graduate anyway ?


People are being "aggressive" to PomPom because if everyone had the same attitude of patenting a game mechanic then the game industry would have got absoutely nowhere.

Hasn't it already been said about there being "prior art" therefore the patent wouldn't really be enforceable ?

I was also under the impression that you couldn't be vague in patents, saying something like "it does stuff" :)

I guess I should been more clear on my opinions, clones use the exact game mechanics, if they don't it's not a "clone" is it ? maybe I misunderstand the meaning of clone and it's actually 3d->3d is a clone and 2d->2d is a clone.

[ERoberts]

All I see here is lots of jealousy. Yeah, PomPom is doing much better than people here. Get over it. Most people here don't act like they're in it to make money anyway, just in it to boost their egos and sense of importance.

BongPig, GOOD ON YA for reaching that level of success. And yeah, a serious, successful indie like yourself might as well stay away from these boards, you won't find many people like yourself here anyway.

[Savant]

All I see here is lots of jealousy.
Then you really need to get your eyes checked.

[TimS]

It's getting frosty in here... :(

We should all go play some Mutant Storm to get some agression out...

[cliffski]

All I see here is lots of jealousy. Yeah, PomPom is doing much better than people here. Get over it. Most people here don't act like they're in it to make money anyway, just in it to boost their egos and sense of importance.

BongPig, GOOD ON YA for reaching that level of success. And yeah, a serious, successful indie like yourself might as well stay away from these boards, you won't find many people like yourself here anyway.

Feel free to leave the forums if you dont want to hang around with us jealous losers :D

[ERoberts]

Nah, I like it here, feel right at home. Glad you agree though :-)

[luggage]

Why do you think it's jealousy? Have you any idea on how well some of the folk here are doing? How do you know that the website side you see is the only income stream for some companies?

Or do you think because you consider PomPom successful that they are beyond criticism? Should we criticise Microsoft and Amazon and lord knows who else for their stupid patents? Or will that be jealousy? Hell, if a tramp decided to patent a game mechanic I'd criticise it. It's bad for the industry and if you can't see that then well... no wonder you can't see the point people have been making.

[Ricardo C]

nice....

raise your hand if you've got an XBox360 dev kit for your indie title that's under development....

congrats to PomPom on that one... besides... they didn't sell their soul to Microsoft... just mebbe took a few notes from them on when and where to file for patents: ( adding and removing white space from documents ) (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&p=1&S1=%28%28Adding.TTL.+AND+Removing.TTL.%29+AND+Whit e.TTL.%29&OS=TTL/Adding+and+TTL/Removing+and+TTL/White&RS=((TTL/Adding+AND+TTL/Removing)+AND+TTL/White))

In some sense, PomPom has 'graduated' from what we commonly think of as 'indie' around here... in that they likely now do not have full design control over their products... the big M may have a thing or two to say about the games as they are put together -- and as a trade off, they get to release with the launch of a new console system. It's just one of many fun ways to go about making entertainment products... which is fun, right?


Sorry, unless someone brings out a photo of Bill G holding a gun to Mike's head, I refuse to romanticize and rationalize their stance on software patents based on their newfound mainstream success.

[Nikster]

hahaha I just read that white space patent, I retract everything I have said..

[Martoon]

I just want weigh in on the side of "let's play nice." I strongly disagree with PomPom's decision to seek a gameplay patent (and with software patents in general), but I still respect them as a developer, and I value BongPig's participation in the forums. I hope he will continue to be a part of the forums in the future, and I'm sure we can agree to disagree on the subject of patents and continue to have productive discussion on other topics.

If I limited my friends to only those I was in total agreement with, I obviously wouldn't have any friends (or be married, for that matter).

[Ricardo C]

Did you miss his last post? He's left the building. We're "in different places". Ta-ta, and all that.

Why, I think he just broke up with us! :D

[HairyTroll]

Hasn't it already been said about there being "prior art" therefore the patent wouldn't really be enforceable ?

The point that you seem to have missed is that the prior art needs to be in the patent database for the patent examiner to actually find it. If the examiner finds no prior art in the database then the patent application is approved.

The patent examiner does not spend all his time playing games. He probably does not know Tetris from Quake. He does not spend 6 weeks on the Internet downloading games to discover that the game mechanic the patent covers was used in some obscure shareware app way back in '88. He probably only has a maximum of a day or two in which to perform all his research before making a decision.

He searches the patent database. Finds no prior art. Finds that the idea is unique and approves the patent. Boom, game over.

This is the reason why it is so important to have a patent examiner with experience in 'the field' covering the patent application. This is why so many weird Internet type patents have been approved. And this is why pompom's application will more than likely be approved.

[Nikster]

So are you saying that if any previous art was missed when issuing a patent it's tough titties ?

EDIT: you only have to look at all the patents companies have taken out for "auto updating software via the tinternet" there are loads, but all worded differently, patents I have seen in software so far are farsicle, and are not worth the HD they're printed on ;)

[HairyTroll]

patents I have seen in software so far are farsicle, and are not worth the HD they're printed on ;)

So what? Patents are patents and have the full force of the law behind them. Once a patent is granted the onus is on the opposing party to prove in a court of law that the patent is invalid. And guess what, going to court costs a fortune.

So even if you know that the patent is bogus. Even if you know that you will win in court and have the patent overturned. You still need to pay for a very expensive and protracted legal battle. And this is enough to stop most companies (here, read all indie's) from even bothering. Hence, the patent stands.

[Nikster]

maybe my smiley wasn't big enough.. :(

and you could have just answered the question which I posed with an answer of "yes"

[Savant]

As far as I understand (which may be not at all), if the prior art is missed it can be introduced later if the patent is ever challenged or enforced. You can't just say, "We got it through! OWNED!". It can be overturned if prior art shows up.

[Martoon]

You can't just say, "We got it through! OWNED!".
That's true. I think for it to be valid, you have to say "PWN3D!!!111".

[Musenik]

Long ago in a forum not far away...

PATENT WARS


The mighty Uspto Empire has sucked all life force from game designers by codifying their every thought and locking them away in black hole singu-legalities.

Meanwhile rebel independents courageously copy and distribute any, proven salable, form of gameplay to all download systems.


Yet another thread has fallen to the struggle.

[HairyTroll]

maybe my smiley wasn't big enough.. :(

and you could have just answered the question which I posed with an answer of "yes"

Appologies, it wasn't my intent to come off as overly harsh.

Yes, I agree that many software patents probably shouldn't be.

[KNau]

Perhaps it would be less of an issue if Pompoms first two games weren't total clones themselves.

That's what makes this new patent strategy an act of massive hypocrisy. It also surprisingly smacks of the newbie attitude of "I'm not gonna tell my brilliant game because someone will steal it!". Like they think they've actually come up with something original!

For all their "success" they are still a tiny fish in a very big pond. If a more successful company comes along and makes a newer / better version of their game they are screwed, patent or no. In the legal system it still comes down to whoever has the deeper pockets wins.

Congratulations on earning enough money to piss that much away on useless patent filings, though.

[soniCron]

That's what makes this new patent strategy an act of massive hypocrisy. No, this is what makes it an act of massive hypocrisy:

From the article:
PomPom is an award winning independent developer based in London, England, with an evangelical belief that many of today's products are little more than the triumph of style over content. Its mission is to give the consumer what they really want: technologically sophisticated games that are compulsively entertaining and highly addictive. Can't have much content if you suck it all up.

[PoV]

Circular explosions + pushing objects away + gravity = Sounds like PuffBOMB (http://www.sykhronics.com/?recent.php) to me. (try it if you haven't, it's fun). Prior Art?
:eek: You're not serious are you? He didn't attempt to patented my game mechanic did he!?

"The idea was that Missile Commands expanding circular explosions would push objects away rather than destroy them, giving them a vector. When gravity was added to the equation, it created something rather like juggling..."
OMG!!! Holy sh*t. That farking hurts dude. If his patent passes, given I made that game in 2003, do I have any sort of protection/legal something that lets me use it for futre projects?

Shat... I finally just go full time, and this happens. Please, someone say something inspiring.

[soniCron]

OMG!!! Holy sh*t. That farking hurts dude. If his patent passes, given I made that game in 2003, do I have any sort of protection/legal something that lets me use it for futre projects? Why not ask him? It may turn out that he'll make you exempt from the patent for your future projects if you don't bring up the prior-art charge.

[PoV]

Eeek, yeah.

[cliffski]

Why not ask him? It may turn out that he'll make you exempt from the patent for your future projects if you don't bring up the prior-art charge.

screw that. why not just make sure your game is taken into account when the patent is 'considered'. That should be evidence enough to throw it out. I'd contact the patent office if I were you. In fact, does anyone know whats involved in tracking the progress of a patent?

[Ricardo C]

screw that. why not just make sure your game is taken into account when the patent is 'considered'. That should be evidence enough to throw it out. I'd contact the patent office if I were you. In fact, does anyone know whats involved in tracking the progress of a patent?

That is a very good idea. Though perhaps he should try to contact PomPom privately first, to see if they can be disuaded from pursuing the patent any further.

Either that, or Microsoft will buy him out for $10 million :p

[Dominique Biesmans]

:eek: You're not serious are you? He didn't attempt to patented my game mechanic did he!?

You made PuffBomb? Congrats. Fun game!

If his patent passes, given I made that game in 2003, do I have any sort of protection/legal something that lets me use it for futre projects?


Well IANAL, but as I understand patents are granted by the US Patent Office on condition that there is no prior art. So proven prior art could invalidate a patent.

Some blabla found with google :
http://www.iusmentis.com/patents/priorart/