Music or SFX what is first?

[Yuriy O]

Hi guys, I wanted to ask an advise. Now, finishing up a classic sorta top down shooter. What is more efficient? Order SFX effects first and then order Music track or vice versa? I mean SFX shouldnt conflict with music as well as music shouldnt be interfering with SFX.
What is normally done first?

Thanks

[Greg Squire]

I would say SFX should come first, as I see them as more critical, but not everything in a game needs SFX (you can overdo them). There are plenty of games out there without background music (only SFX), and plenty that have neither SFX nor music (i.e. Minesweeper). Remember that game play comes first and the graphics (the “eye candy”), SFX and music (the “ear candy”) are all supplementary to that. They are there to “enhance” the experience, not to “be” the experience.

SFX provides extra feedback to the user, of an event, and music is there to help set the mood. Both enhance the experience in different ways.

[Sunshine]

Greg is correct, and for all of those reasons.

But also music (well, I use MODs) is made up of sound effects.

Sometimes a sample might work great in the game, and can be used as a music instrument OR a soundeffect or BOTH.

Look at Paradroid, the music was the sounds from the game in a random number generator.

[LiquidAsh]

I don't have a ton of experience with this, but I actually tend to work the other way around. For me music is kind of a background over which the sound effects (like sprites) are painted. The music kind of establishes a unifying feel (in my mind), and the sound effects should add to that, while also (of course) conveying information as needed (or as is helpful).

just my 2c - guess you just have to figure out what works best for you

[Yuriy O]

That's what's interesting. I see two opinions already. Pls keep the input coming. What's more practical though?

Thanks!

[Peter Wayne]

For cut scenes SFX need to come first. This way the composer can aid the SFX. If SFX came later it could be hard to complete with a huge crash cymbol within the music, for example if you needed to create a large gun shot or something and the crash cymbol was hard to work around. It can get messy.

In most cases I believe that SFX should come first. However it really depends on the style of music. If the music is atmospheric and way back in the background then by all means music can come first. If it's an epic score then you really need to do SFX first. Having said that though any good Music/SFX artist should be able to work around it ;). EQ can do wonders ;), but in most cases SFX should be added first!

From my point of view as a Music Composer/SFX artist I like to do both at the same time. That is of course provided I'm doing both within the game. The reason I like to do both at the same time is that it gives me a break from the other for a while. I think I work efficiently that way. I also tend to get more immersed in the game. If the same person is doing both they can ensure that both music and sfx work perfectly within the game. But that's just me.

But at the end of the day deadlines could decide. Which imo is why there are so many games out there with very average sound and music. Even the big retail games suffer from average audio imo.

I hope I have helped a little bit. And if you ever need and SFX, Music or Voice overs let me know.

Good luck.

[Sillysoft]

I think sound effects are more important, unless you have really good music. Sometimes I will turn off a game's music because I don't like it, and either play MP3s or just have straight sound effects. Turning off sound effects usually hurts the game more than turning off music, so I think that you should ensure you have nice sounds.

[Yuriy O]

Thanks, I think we do sound effects first.

[Anthony Flack]

Actually, I'd advise putting the music in first...!

SFX are much easier to chop and change as you go. And you might be surprised to find you don't need as much SFX as you thought, once the music is in. Too much SFX can make things very cluttered with music in too.

Is there a rule around here that any time someone talks about music or graphics, that someone has to pipe up with "gameplay is the most important thing"?

[Mark Fassett]

Is there a rule around here that any time someone talks about music or graphics, that someone has to pipe up with "gameplay is the most important thing"?

Yes.

It was very interesting when I started adding sound effects how much more fun the game was.

I'd do at least one music track first - even if it's just something you borrow. It's really easy to do the code for it and the improvement helps alot. It can help you define the feel of the game and give you more direction. Finding or creating sound effects, especially the right ones, is really damn hard, as I discovered.

[Reactor]

"Finding or creating sound effects, especially the right ones, is really damn hard, as I discovered."

Yep, discovering this also :) I'm getting better at it every day, but the initial slog of trying to get the first few done made me want to leave it until the very end.

[Peter Wayne]

Finding or creating sound effects, especially the right ones, is really damn hard, as I discovered.
That's why to get a professional like myself to take away the burden ;). And just so you know I would never charge for a sound that you didn't like. You have to understand that us sound guys take pride in our work. If something doesn't sound right we redo it. It's that simple.

[Anthony Flack]

It was very interesting when I started adding sound effects how much more fun the game was.


I actually take advantage of this aspect too - from the opposite perspective. As in, "if I can get it all to work really well, in silence, then when I do add the sound, it's going to be even better".

[Reactor]

There are few reasons we decided to do all of our soundfx in-house, but we may look to someone else for our next project. The offer is appreciated, Peter :)

[Yuriy O]

Actually, I'd advise putting the music in first...!

SFX are much easier to chop and change as you go. And you might be surprised to find you don't need as much SFX as you thought, once the music is in. Too much SFX can make things very cluttered with music in too.

Is there a rule around here that any time someone talks about music or graphics, that someone has to pipe up with "gameplay is the most important thing"?

That's a very good point, Anthony.

btw, We have not ordered anything yet, except what we ordered to begin with. I plan on putting our new shooter here some time soon for you guys to betta test :)