How much can you do what you want to do?

[tunca]

Hi folks,

It's great to see you all after dexterity forums. Some people may know me from Goofy Soccer. I was away for a long time :(

I regularly ask myself "how much I can do what I want to do". (This question shall only consider game development)

What would you say among the below lines

Absolutely all
Allmost all
Most
Some
A few
Almost none
Absolutely none!

I'd say "a few".

The problem is not because of unproductivity or being a one man army. It's about making a life living by the games I'd like to develop.

How much can you do what you want to do?

[Robert Cummings]

I do exactly what I want to do after choosing a genre which I feel will sell.

[ManuelFLara]

I guess it depends on "what you actually want to do". If it's MUDs or something as uncommercially viable as that, then yeah, "a few".

But if you want to make something other than puzzle games, you'll just have it harder to find a proper audience. I'm pretty sure the guys at Moonpod, Chronic Logic or PomPom do mostly what they absolutely want to.

[Jack Norton]

My answer would be "almost all".
I never made a game I didn't want to make, so far. Of course I don't know about the future... :eek:

[papillon]

There *are* pay-MUDs bringing in good money. It just takes work. :)

I'm limited in doing what I want to do because I *want* to be able to draw my own gorgeous graphics to go along with what I do rather than work through slow and expensive outside artists. Alas, while my art skills continue to improve, they are not and may never be at the level I desire. :)

[Robert Cummings]

OT:

I think they will improve. From what I can tell thats wrong with your art (I'm a trained artist myself) is that you lack formal training, thats all.

Basically it looks as though you've tried to teach yourself and done a fair job. You won't believe what proper training can do for your art. Consider "how to draw the marvel way" as a good starting point. Yes these are superheroes, but they teach you the core skills of anatomy and perspective, as well as posing and range. There's also www.fineart.sk - if you dig around on there you'll find a full figure drawing book for download. It's all good stuff.

You never get better with just practise, you need formal training too (even if it is anime).

[Deux]

WRT to how much I can do, I would say "some" to "most" according to your yardstick. There are still some areas which still totally elude me.


I'm limited in doing what I want to do because I *want* to be able to draw my own gorgeous graphics to go along with what I do rather than work through slow and expensive outside artists. Alas, while my art skills continue to improve, they are not and may never be at the level I desire.

I am also contemplating this, game art is hella expensive when you add it all up if you outsource.

[svero]

It's hard to answer.. because I want to make games and sell games.. so when I choose something I believe is marketable, then I'm doing what I want to do. I think your question is.. how often do market and other pressures infringe on making games as a purely creative exercise.

But this question implies I have a clue what sells. Wellll.. to some degree I d I suppose. Or at least I know what's sold. But there are games that I think could sell well where I'm not really so sure, and other games that I'm pretty sure are marketable that maybe aren't. Most of us in the end.. don't really 100% know.

So for me Id say its a money/risk issue. How's my bank account? Good.. sales have been fine.. OK let's maybe try the game I'm not so sure about... Sales are bad? Money is tight? Lets make something I can almost certainly sell (aargon 3 say - lots of ex customers waiting for a sequel)

Another way to look at it I suppose is.. If I was just going to make a game for fun.. my own enjoyment.. how much would it differ from what I do make? Often not that much.. simply because I believe good fun games are commercial most of the time. As well the market may tune my interests a bit. If a game like feeding frenzy comes out and I make a game with fish eating other fish.. its easy to say.. well I'm trying to duplicate that success, and just following the market, but it's also true that I may have just enjoyed playing that game and wanted to make my own version.

[ManuelMarino]

Well, I think that, before doing anything, you got to have a clear vision of all the issues that project involves.

So:

1) Money to invest
2) Management
3) Production Goals
4) Income and risks

This is my procedure whenever I begin a new project. Of course my projects are mainly audio projects, so maybe more easy to manage than the projects you are in... but maybe my suggestions could be valuable for you too.

In details you must create a virtual procedure where you advance the REAL PROCESS, so you know exactly what will happen:

1) How much money I need to begin the project? The costs are too much? or the incomes are enough to cover them?

2) Time to set up the project, sheets, plans, and so on. It's the stage where I compose my music, also. Are you able to find the right ideas?

3) Production time... let's call the right people to help in the production phase. This is an important stage, you must have so many contacts and professionals to call that everyone must be replaceable. Are you able to achieve the production goals you have in mind?

4) Time to complete the production, to collect the income, to think about the risks. The income must be enough to cover costs and to give you earnings also if risks happen and the worst of worst of the events could happen.

Sorry if my english seems coarse, but I'm trying my best to translate my italian thoughts in english :)

[James C. Smith]

I do exactly what I want to do after choosing a genre which I feel will sell.

And this is your primary source of revenue? This pays the bills? Anyone can easily do whatever he wants. But tunca is talking about people who make a living doing it. I didn't realize you were making a living making games Robert. Am I wrong?

[tunca]

So for me Id say its a money/risk issue. How's my bank account? Good.. sales have been fine.. OK let's maybe try the game I'm not so sure about... Sales are bad? Money is tight? Lets make something I can almost certainly sell (aargon 3 say - lots of ex customers waiting for a sequel)

Psychology of "making a few of desired" starts at decision of "must sell". I go back and forth between two assumptions:

a) If I do what I want to do, then it will naturally become a nice game and sell
b) If I make a game with concrete indications to sell, that will allow me to go back to assumption a in the future!

So the target is "a" and "b" is the shortcut. The shortcut is painful and not easy at all! This is like a jazz musician making pop.

[ManuelMarino]

well, but a jazz musician can create a pop track with a jazz flavour and that track could become famous :cool:

I'm not sure the difference between "what people wants" and "what you want" is so huge.

Everyone of us is also a videogame player. Are you sure that your game concept should have to be changed to please the audience?

[luggage]

Everyone of us is also a videogame player. Are you sure that your game concept should have to be changed to please the audience?If you want to make a living from it then you have to factor in your audience.

[tunca]

well, but a jazz musician can create a pop track with a jazz flavour and that track could become famous :cool:

I want to be that musician :)


I'm not sure the difference between "what people wants" and "what you want" is so huge.

That is because many people here are much more experienced than me.

[ManuelMarino]

If you want to make a living from it then you have to factor in your audience.

That's obvious... well, probably I translated wrong my italian thoughts.

I'm saying... since you are a videogame player, are you sure your desires as player are not the same as other players?

Are you sure your game concept, as it is, is not cool enough to attract people?

Are you sure your ideas are not marketable?

Just to tell that an entrepreneur who doesn't like videogames of course he needs an industry guy to help him find the right style to please the audience.

But since we are videogame players, I'm sure whatever idea you could have, would be a good and marketable idea.

Why would you create a game to please your ego that would not please the videogame enthusiasts?

You are a player too, so you are the best betatester of your ideas.

[ManuelMarino]

I want to be that musician :)

Eh :cool:


That is because many people here are much more experienced than me.

Ok... so, exactly... what would you like to do and how? Let's make examples so we have concrete things to discuss on :)

[sparkyboy]

Hi guys,

Well as for myself,I have now made a completely life changing decision that should be more condusive towards my ambitions in this field of indie programming! ;)

As many of you may already know,I have completed and sold 3 games over the past 10 years or so(albeit in a rather suck it and see manner :D ).This was mainly due to lack of family support etc.

Now I feel I can really get myself 'in the zone' for lack of a better term! :cool:

I have a lot of real life issues to sort out over the coming weeks,but once they are out of the way,I really believe that I can spend the time and energy required to produce some more games and hopefully make some sort of living from it.

so....

Desire to program.......CHECK
Ability to program.......CHECK
Enthusiasm.......... DOUBLE CHECK
Positive mental attitude....... OF COURSE
Support......... FINALLY

But as with most things in life,nothing is guaranteed ( except death and taxes!!!) :p

So let's wait and see eh!! Good luck to us all!!!!

All the best


Mark.

[tunca]

Ok... so, exactly... what would you like to do and how? Let's make examples so we have concrete things to discuss on :)

I think it's a matter of bussines development. When I had started to learn the indie bussines from dexterity forums two years ago, I remember some developers close to my present position who systematically developed their games and marketing skills. Their sales improved and they found ways to satisfy both the customers and themselves. That is exactly what I want to do; games that both satisfy me and the customers.

[Nexic]

Most of the time what I want to do is also what I think will sell. I try to choose projects that will do both. I don't think I could make a game that I didn't want to do, even if I knew it would sell really well.

However what I think will sell often doesn't. Not sure whether its because I choose the wrong type of game, or whether I executed it badly. With most of projects I'd assume its an equal mix of both.