Skill Games ?

[alfie]

Sorry about the short title, but did not know how to describe it.

I was reading the section regarding Skill Games in the IGDA white paper on the casual market and thout it might be a good idea to discuss this segment of the casual market. I dont recall any regulars on this board targeting this market, or adapting their existing games to reach this market themselves or via the Skill Game portals. Any insights would be welcome.

From what I can gather from the white paper, a skill game is a game that is stripped of "Luck". I had a quick look at a Skill Game portal and they had in their portfolio some sort of Tetris variation (might actually have been a clone, but did not play it). If they cannot/dont include luck then how can they have a Tetris type game?, unless of course the block shapes are fixed. Is there any sources that define what is defined/acceptable to be a game of skill?

[Bmc]

You pretty much have it figured out. They are usually involved in tournament play, where the winner wins money.

All elements of luck are stripped, so it's not considered gambling.

[alfie]

Do you know of any legal definitions/papers on skill gaming and how they are defined? I know it probably varies for different states in the US and different countries around the world, but I am just trying to get a general idea.

[James C. Smith]

There is a lot of info about skill based games in some of the IGDA whitepapers. For example, the 2004 Web & Downloadable Games White Paper talks a lot about skill based games and has an example of converting Collapse to a skill based games.

http://www.igda.org/online/papers.php

[alfie]

http://www.igda.org/online/papers.php

Thanks for the link James, downloading now.

[jonathan GT]

From what I can gather from the white paper, a skill game is a game that is stripped of "Luck". I had a quick look at a Skill Game portal and they had in their portfolio some sort of Tetris variation (might actually have been a clone, but did not play it). If they cannot/dont include luck then how can they have a Tetris type game?, unless of course the block shapes are fixed. Is there any sources that define what is defined/acceptable to be a game of skill?

I work for Game Trust (http://www.gametrust.com), and we license a skill-gaming and community platform to over a dozen sites like MiniClip and Shockwave. Since I work with third party developers to "skillify" their existing games for our platform, I think I'll chime in here with a general overview of the fine line between legal skill-gaming, and gambling.

We operate cash tournaments in “games of skill,” as opposed to gambling, which is based on “games of chance.” Though both activities involve game play, money, and winnings, there is a fundamental and well-established difference. According to the US Congress..

“Gambling means the staking or risking by any person of something of value upon the outcome of a contest of others, a sporting event, or a game predominantly subject to chance, upon an agreement or understanding that the person or another person will receive something of greater value than the amount staked or risked in the event of a certain outcome.”

Gambling depends upon the outcome of “contests of others” or “games predominantly subject to chance.” On the other hand, Skill game tournaments are defined by contestants directly participating in the outcome of a game that is predominantly determined by their abilities, not chance. Therefore, a skill game can be defined as a game that is "predominantly based on skill."

A few states (US) and countries have outlawed or put limits on winnings for skill-games, so we simply do not accept payments from those regions, or we comply with the limits.

Therefore, a game like Tetris is a skill-game, since nobody can argue that it is not "predominantly skill-based." We can "skillify" the vast majority of games out there, by tinkering with the scoring, adding a time-element, etc.

My company has deals with over 20 third-party game development studios to tournament enable their games, which introduces a new revenue stream and gives them access to a consistent monthly check that lasts far longer than the window for download sales (ie. until your game is booted off the front pages of casual game sites).. Plus, we offer a down payment and revenue share. I can be reached at jonathan@gametrust.com

(sorry- couldn't resist the sales pitch there in the end :p , but I hope this information helps!)

I'd be happy to answer any more questions.

Jonathan Greechan
Game Project Manager
Game Trust, Inc.

[alfie]

Therefore, a game like Tetris is a skill-game, since nobody can argue that it is not "predominantly skill-based." We can "skillify" the vast majority of games out there, by tinkering with the scoring, adding a time-element, etc.

My company has deals with over 20 third-party game development studios to tournament enable their games, which introduces a new revenue stream and gives them access to a consistent monthly check that lasts far longer than the window for download sales (ie. until your game is booted off the front pages of casual game sites).. Plus, we offer a down payment and revenue share. I can be reached at jonathan@gametrust.com

(sorry- couldn't resist the sales pitch there in the end :p , but I hope this information helps!)

I'd be happy to answer any more questions.

Jonathan Greechan
Game Project Manager
Game Trust, Inc.

Very informative Jonathon, many thanks.

In terms of another revenue stream you make a valid point/pitch. Hopefully some of the indie developers will take this into account when identifying/developing strategies to exploit their IP.