3impact

[ggambett]

Does anyone have anything to say about 3Impact? http://www.3impact.com Looks nice and with several interesting features at $99 with no royalties and no logos. Any actual experience using it?

[soniCron]

Don't forget it seems to require the latest DirectX. (I only glanced at the page, so I could have missed something.)

[Christian]

hello, i downloaded the demo of that engine, it impressed me, and only one section of the demo didnt work for me because it needed pixel shaders, the others worked and full speed and looked awesome. The license is for life, but the upgrades are free for only one year, after one year upgrades will cost half the price of the engine, i dont like that...

So, from the forums, this quote resumes it well:
"
in short, all i'm tryig to say is that i think that 3Impact is a decent collection of routines, integrated into a low cost, very usable package that will enable some stunning 3D development... without investing the family jewels or a year or two getting familiar with how it works...

...but i can only speak for myself... you gotta find what's most comfortable for you."

[Jack Norton]

Is not cross-platform... I would never use that :(

[Bad Sector]

From the site:
No need of engine-specific world editor, just use your favorite 3d modeler!
I don't see this as a good thing. One of the reason i'm writing a world editor for my 3d engine is to be able to put and see objects while i'm making the level (another important reason -for me at least- is that if someone gets the game, to not have to own 3DS, Maya or whatever editor in order to make a custom level).

Also i don't see it to mention stuff like culling stategies... or scene management information at all. How "high" level is that? But anyway, there are better solutions to this engine. Except Torque there is also another engine which looks far better than Torque and costs $100... unfortunatelly i don't remember the name nor where i heard about it. It could be here or in GameDev...

But it looked very good... like "Next-Gen for indies" or something :-)

[jankoM]

Hi ggambett. In case you still wish to make WWW in 3d with realistic physics 3impact has just gotten heavy awaited 4.0 version. I have licence and engine is very good sturctured IMO (everything is minimall, simple), I did make some fun playable things wit it but making a full 3d game was too much for me at the time (still is).

3impact was somewhat to minimal and they vere wery carefull at sticking features to it (and that was a problem to some) , but this 4.0 version features a lot of important things that devs needed so I think it is becoming very good solid engine.

I just got email with download and new features so here you go:

NEW TO THIS VERSION 4


- The engine is now also available as a standard Windows DLL (for both __cdecl and __stdcall calling conventions). This not only provides a more flexible coding interface (you can even write your own game loop!) but also extends compatibility to virtually all programming languages! Moreover, all the code you write for the .exe version can be ported, UNMODIFIED, to the .dll version, and vice-versa. It also means that all the code you have written for previous versions 3.x of the engine can be easily ported to the .dll version.

- The Converter is now provided with source code to allow for full customization.

- All ...Create() functions except iSkyBoxCreate() and iSoundCreate() are now also available as ...CreateFromMemory(). Skyboxes cannot be created from memory, but you can now create your own skyboxes/skydomes by using regular meshes and improved rendering functionality. Sounds can only be created from memory if they are in .ogg format.

- Bone animated meshes (skinmeshes) management has been massively improved. Rendering (processing) is also faster and smoother (matrix-key-based animations). Ragdolls are now 2 to 10 times faster, due to a faster iSkinMeshBoneOrientationSet() function. Also, iSkinMeshBoneLookAt() is faster. Skinmesh data can be shared to optimize memeory usage. See the new iSkinMesh... functions below.

- Note that iSkinMeshBoneCreateByName() requires exact bone name now (partial names no lnger match) and that default speed for skinmesh animation has changed from 4800 to zero.

- You can now set the 'master' color and transparency of a font, to implement advanced effects. See iFontColorSet() function.

- Font characters are now .x files. Note that iFontCreate() no longer accepts .spr files. All fonts must be .x files now.

- Mip-map LOD can now be adjusted (see iMeshTextureMipMapLodSet() function).

- Shadow displacement can be adjusted (to minimize artifacts on narrow field of views (see iShadowDisplacementSet() function).

- 1600x1200 display modes are now supported.

- BUG FIXING:
Fixed black screen at second run on some ATI cards
Fixed ignored alpha mesh property on non-pixel shader cards
Fixed iSkinMeshAnimationTimeSet() failing on some systems
Fixed iBodyBodyFeedBack() when the static body is made of two or more materials
Fixed crash on destroying last mesh
Fixed multiple fonts sharing the same texture
Fixed iSkinmeshBoneOrientation(), mode 1, not returning proper results.
Fixed CameramanFixed_t class crashing if LocationAdd() member function isn't called before Update().

- New API functions:
iSkinMeshTransfer()
iSkinMeshAnimationTime()
iSkinMeshAnimationLength()
iSkinMeshBuffersShare()
iSkinMeshTexturesShare()
iSkinMeshAnimationKeysShare()
iSkinMeshTexturesCount()
iSkinMeshTextureChange()
iMeshTextureMipMapLodSet()
iBodyOrientationSeek()
iPhysicsAccuracySet()
iMeshSecondaryTextureSetFast()
iShadowDisplacementSet()
iMeshTexturePath()
iPrintColorSet()
iSpriteCreateFromMemory()
iFontCreateFromMemory()
iMeshCreateFromMemory()
iBodyMeshCreateFromMemory()
iMeshShadowCasterCreateFromMemory()
iMeshBodyShadowCasterCreateFromMemory()
iMeshBumpCreateFromMemory()
iBodyMeshBumpCreateFromMemory()
iBodyCreateFromMemory()
iBodySGCreateFromMemory()
iSkinMeshCreateFromMemory()
iBodySkinMeshCreateFromMemory()
iSkinMeshShadowCasterCreateFromMemory()
iSoundOggCreateFromMemory()
iTextureCreateFromMemory()
iEnvMapCreateFromMemory()
iParticleCreateFromMemory()
iTrailCreateFromMemory()

- DLL-version-only functions
i3ImpactOpen()
i3ImpactSettings()
i3ImpactMain()
i3ImpactInitBegin()
i3ImpactInitEnd()
i3ImpactRunBegin()
i3ImpactRunEnd()
i3ImpactRender()
i3ImpactExitBegin()
i3ImpactExitEnd()
i3ImpactClose()
i3ImpactIsRendering()
i3ImpactIsActive()
i3ImpactIsReady()
i3ImpactIsExecuting()
i3ImpactIsInitializing()
i3ImpactIsSkippingRunPhase()
i3ImpactIsSkippingRenderPhase()
i3ImpactErrorFlag()
i3ImpactIsRenderingSet()
i3ImpactIsActiveSet()
i3ImpactIsReadySet()
i3ImpactIsExecutingSet()
i3ImpactIsInitializingSet()
i3ImpactIsSkippingRunPhaseSet()
i3ImpactIsSkippingRenderPhaseSet()
i3ImpactErrorFlagSet()

[ManuelFLara]

you can even write your own game loop!
Is it actually THAT good?

[Didier]

I downloaded the game 'Extreme Burnout' made with the engine but for me those graphics are very old style.

Don't know if you got the same problem?

[jankoM]

I am not going to defend the engine because that is not my problem. I was just answering what someone asked (late I admit).

I think Exreme Burnout and Monster Truck Stunts was made with engine 0.7 or somehing. I don't remember Extr. B. but Monster T.S. impressed me, too bad demo was so limited. But replays rocked.

regards,
Janko

[Sybixsus]

I downloaded the game 'Extreme Burnout' made with the engine but for me those graphics are very old style.

Don't know if you got the same problem?

That's true, but it's not really fair to judge an engine by the quality of the media. If you try the Irrlicht demos, they make it look horrible, but look past the lousy media and there's a decent engine there, and I think the same applies to 3Impact.

It's not Doom 3, but it has a nice basic feature set, is reasonably fast, straightforward API, very reasonably priced and with the new DLL, can be coded using whatever language you prefer. Seems pretty good to me.

[jankoM]

If you want to judge the engine as it is now, I suppose it is best to downoload the tech demo. It's still for 3.8 but cosmetics havfent thanged that much. I believe tech demo impresses more with physics btw.

screenshot from t.d. http://www.verso-systems.com/guest1/samples/bump_env.jpg

[Vorax]

I tried the demo and got horrible FPS (20 maybe), but it does do some nice stuff.

I have my own engine that does most of that already though - and mine has all source, 24x7 support (I talk to myself alot), 5-10 times the FPS, it's written in Java so it's cross platform... and its free :D

[Sybixsus]

I tried the demo and got horrible FPS (20 maybe), but it does do some nice stuff.

On what hardware? What gfx driver version? What DirectX version?

I'm seriously considering 3Impact, and poor performance would put me off, but I can't judge performance without knowing what you were running it on. Good feedback on the engine would be very useful to me.

I have a 9700 Pro and it's very fast, but then I'm not aiming at a 9700 Pro, am I? ;)

[Vorax]

nVidia Geforce 5700 (over clocked), latest drivers, latest DX, AMD XP2600+, 512MB RAM

I can run Doom 3 on medium settings and get over 150FPS on any Quake 3 map... my box is well above common place.

[jankoM]

i have radeon 9200 SE and it works normal. I don't know much about gfx cards, but I have to run Halo 1 on low gfx settings. I think graphically engine is very fast, but physics can slow it down if you don't optimize (like few cars (4tyres, springs, body) colliding with one very large mesh and such things.)

If you decide to give it a try I recommend you collaborative licence ($49) and you can pay the rest ($50) and have full licence if you like it. I did that. Too bad you don't have access on forum vithgout buying, because then you could see what people are doing and what problems they have.

[Sybixsus]

nVidia Geforce 5700 (over clocked), latest drivers, latest DX, AMD XP2600+, 512MB RAM

Thanks for the info. It's obviously a bug or driver issue then, rather than poor performance in general, because I have approximately the same system as you and get far better performance.

[Geom]

Thanks for the info. It's obviously a bug or driver issue then, rather than poor performance in general, because I have approximately the same system as you and get far better performance.

If 3Impact was running under DirectX 9, that probably explains the slowness. The nVidia 5X00 line of video cards (e.g. your 5700) are reputed to be horribly slow on DirectX 9. Valve made a lot of noise about this issue when they released Half Life 2. Check out http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2281&p=3, they have some benchmarks showing just how much slower we're talking about.

If 3Impact only runs under DX9, dat ist not goode, for potential customers with NVidia 5X00 cards out there...

Geom

[Vorax]

If 3Impact was running under DirectX 9, that probably explains the slowness. The nVidia 5X00 line of video cards (e.g. your 5700) are reputed to be horribly slow on DirectX 9. Valve made a lot of noise about this issue when they released Half Life 2. Check out http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2281&p=3, they have some benchmarks showing just how much slower we're talking about.

If 3Impact only runs under DX9, dat ist not goode, for potential customers with NVidia 5X00 cards out there...

Geom

Wow, that's quite a drop in performance from DX8 to DX9. Geez...scarry drop actually. I do all my development in OpenGL and am not using any games that require DX9, so I never noticed the hit.

All the nVidia 5xxxx series are pretty much the same, so performance would suck across the board for a fairly common video card.

[Sybixsus]

If 3Impact was running under DirectX 9, that probably explains the slowness. The nVidia 5X00 line of video cards (e.g. your 5700) are reputed to be horribly slow on DirectX 9. Valve made a lot of noise about this issue when they released Half Life 2. Check out http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2281&p=3, they have some benchmarks showing just how much slower we're talking about.

If 3Impact only runs under DX9, dat ist not goode, for potential customers with NVidia 5X00 cards out there...

Geom

Since Valve had a deal with ATI for HalfLife 2, I'm not sure I'd take HalfLife 2 as an unbiased comparison. Practically every current retail release is using DX9, and I don't see FX 5X00 users up in arms that none of them run at acceptable frame rates.

To further cast doubt on your assertion, I'm pretty sure the 3.8 Tech Demo was still using DX8.

[Vorax]

Good point...there would have been a rebellion by now

[jankoM]

I made post on 3impact forum about this discussion, so maybe someone will come over and tell you from firsthand.

because of 1 week waiting period this prob. wont be very soon.

[Geom]

Since Valve had a deal with ATI for HalfLife 2, I'm not sure I'd take HalfLife 2 as an unbiased comparison. Practically every current retail release is using DX9, and I don't see FX 5X00 users up in arms that none of them run at acceptable frame rates.


I suppose it might be possible that Valve might make a biased claim, but I really doubt AnandTech would be fooled. They're a large, very experienced review site. I think I've seen at least one other review that showed the same performance issue, I'll see if I can find it.

I didn't mean to slam the engine (or nVidia cards either, I own one too), I'm just passing along info.

To further cast doubt on your assertion, I'm pretty sure the 3.8 Tech Demo was still using DX8.

Nope. From their home page blurb about the demo,

"Requires latest DirectX® version installed"

which links to the DirectX 9.0c download at Microsoft. And apparently it's not just the demo's requirement, it's the engine's, from 3impact.com/3Impact_Engine/quickstart.htm :

"To code your games you will need a Microsoft® Windows based PC with the latest DirectX® version installed."

[Sybixsus]

Nope. From their home page blurb about the demo,

"Requires latest DirectX® version installed"

which links to the DirectX 9.0c download at Microsoft. And apparently it's not just the demo's requirement, it's the engine's, from 3impact.com/3Impact_Engine/quickstart.htm :

"To code your games you will need a Microsoft® Windows based PC with the latest DirectX® version installed."

A lot of games say that though, don't they? Heck, I advise my users to upgrade to the latest version of DirectX if they have problems and I'm only using DirectX 7. It's just something you say because it's good general advice and knocks one thing off your checklist.

Besides, they don't specifically link DirectX 9.0c , they link to the standard DirectX page, which happens to currently be 9.0c. The link might have been unchanged for a year or two, in which case it would have been pointing to the DX8 page when they put it there.

[jankoM]

I asked on that forum and maker of 3impact said:
It uses DirectX 8.1. All rendering is achieved through hardware processed vertex and pixel shaders.

this link might be interesting to some http://www.blitzbasic.co.nz/Community/posts.php?topic=51097

bye,
Janko M.