The Real Arcade top 10 list is fun to watch

[Bmc]

If a portal owns a game, it will be in their interest to keep it on the Top Ten list. They just make more money that way. And I think any decent title that is on the Top Ten list will just sell more, and ultimately earn it's place.

Has anyone calculated the percentage of Portal owned titles that are listed on thier respective Top Ten lists?

Tom

sometimes yes, but I don't think that is always necessarily true... I remember many games from game house that never even made it on the top 10...

Spring Sprang Sprung, Hello, Splish Splash are 3 that come to mind

[gmcbay]

If a portal owns a game, it will be in their interest to keep it on the Top Ten list. They just make more money that way.


Not true. This logic only holds if all titles convert about equally, which is absolutely not the case (by a longshot).

If the portals artificially boost their games on the top ten lists, they'll push games that their market actually likes more (and is more likely to buy) down the list and out of sight, hurting their total conversion ratio. The end result is they will be making less money overall even though they make more per single sale.

I could totally see a situation where they might want to cheat for their own titles in the first week(s), to get the title a lot of initial eyeballs to see if it resonates with the market, but doing it continually is long term -EV. They'd be much better off letting the list reflect reality.

[svero]

Not true. This logic only holds if all titles convert about equally, which is absolutely not the case (by a longshot).

But actually plenty of "good" games convert fairly similarly so if you are massaging the top 10 and you have to make a choice then pick the one you make more money on. Also you, given a choice you may promote that one a little more outside the top 10 list as well. Personally though I don't think Karu was helped much by Gamehouse. I think it is fading because it's not the strongest game of the genre and because there have been quite a few zuma-esque games recently. I don't think the market can withstand any number of similar games before people get a little bored even if it does have a few twists.

[Mike Boeh]

Not true. This logic only holds if all titles convert about equally, which is absolutely not the case (by a longshot).

If the portals artificially boost their games on the top ten lists, they'll push games that their market actually likes more (and is more likely to buy) down the list and out of sight, hurting their total conversion ratio. The end result is they will be making less money overall even though they make more per single sale.

I could totally see a situation where they might want to cheat for their own titles in the first week(s), to get the title a lot of initial eyeballs to see if it resonates with the market, but doing it continually is long term -EV. They'd be much better off letting the list reflect reality.
There are many other reasons for a portal to promote their own game ahead of others:
1. The game makes a higher profit.
2. The game promotes THEIR own brand.
3. For a while, self-developed content is often unique to a portal and may help gain market share.
4. Eventually they will have their content published on other portals, and the more of a hit it appears to be, the more it will be promoted elsewhere, producing more sales. So it's about creating an image.

[Tero Alatalo]

I think that was it's downfall. Luxor/Zuma fans who buy the same game over and over don't want change. Karu, I think, was familiar yet too alien.


Yeah. Based on our feedback, some people find it very difficult to concentrate both on catching the balls and dropping them. It's like two different games violently thrown together -- and the players need to handle (and like) them both. On the other hand, some people say the game's just too easy. Go figure. There's just so and so much you want to do with dynamic play balancing.

While I do think Karu is at best fun game to play, I think it's major downfall (gameplay-wise) is that the game determines too much the pace. You have to think fast, even though that's not the way you want to play the game. Another thing is the negative feedback on the statue getting higher and higher -- when you start to lose you're more likely to lose, just the opposite to Zuma etc. It just makes the exciting near-death part shorter.

However, the game is still doing fine, especially all things considered.

I've amused myself with an idea to do a more direct Zuma clone with Karu code base just to see how well it'd do. I bet it would still be worth the development time, although a lot of people would hate us for making it :).

Anyway that is if the major sites would accept any more such games. You always hear some people complaining, but the truth is that a lot more people buy the games than complain about them. Just stop complaining or stop buying, we're just trying to make a living here ;)

[Savant]

Just stop complaining or stop buying, we're just trying to make a living here
Well, the point of the complaining is to fight the notion that cloning is the only way for an indie to survive. That mentality is cancerous and highly destructive.

[svero]

Good lord! the guy responsible for Karu is also responsible for Crimsonland. What's going on here? What I want to know is why isnt anyone making Crimsonland 2? Was that game a total failure sales wise or what? Because I want to play Crimsonland 2. So whoever is reponsible for that should just immediately stop making karu games and start right in on that instead.

[berserker]

Yeah, I was shocked too :eek:
Not sure if market will accept Crimsonland 2 now though. Also was surprised why you decided to pick up this ball catch mechanic from Spring Sprang Sprung since SSS wasn't a big success?

[Savant]

Yeah, I was shocked too
Personally, ever since the guy who made Clash'N Slash released Jewel of Atlantis there hasn't been much that has shocked me. :)

[Bmc]

Yeah, I was shocked too :eek:
Not sure if market will accept Crimsonland 2 now though. Also was surprised why you decided to pick up this ball catch mechanic from Spring Sprang Sprung since SSS wasn't a big success?

but it was also in Digby's Donuts which was a success.

[berserker]

Personally, ever since the guy who made Clash'N Slash released Jewel of Atlantis there hasn't been much that has shocked me. :)

Ok, 1:0 you took the lead on this one :D

[Tero Alatalo]

I've actually never played SSS. I had played Digby's Donuts though, didn't it do ok? I'm not sure. Anyway I just thought catching and sorting the balls could be a nice add to the Puzzloop/Zuma/Luxor thing, so I did a prototype of the game one evening. Three months later we had a game that can probably support the rest of Crimsonland 2 development so it's not that bad.

So we are making Crimsonland 2. The problem is just that we don't want to (or can't) rush it out before it's finished. On the other hand we need to pay the bills, so there's just two options: either get a "real" job or make more games. Either case, cl2 is postponed :(

I feel I'm just stating the obvious here, but I'm with you with that non-cloning, go go originality. However, the fact is that "cloning with a twist" is a lot safer way to hang in there (they're not making entrepreneurism especially easy here in Finland) than to do something completely original. And anyway as long as some people obviously have fun playing these games, what makes an original game game that just a few people plays better? Ok, I don't actually stand 100% before what I just wrote, but naming it the Ultimate Evil doesn't seem right either. I don't think originality is always the goal, but you definitely shouldn't just clone existing game either. I think it's just about having fun. It's fun to play games, it's fun to make games.

[Nexic]

Get off your Butt and make CS2....

Just stop the excuses and make it, MAKE IT NOW. ARGGGGHHH!!!! Hell I'll even pay your bills for the next 6 months!

Okay maybe I got a bit carried away. I would love to see Crimsonland 2, but I really understand what you mean about clones with a twist and actually making some money, I'm in a similar boat.

Though you really shouldn't be ashamed of Karu, when I played it the other day I was really impressed at the twist. It's nice to see some originality come into the Zuma/Luxor genre.

And Savant, why do you not get QBeez 2's popularity? It's great!

Reds together!!!

[Tero Alatalo]

Heh, I'm working as fast as I can. Throwing in multiplayer game opens up a whole deal of design issues that need to be dealt. I'd just want to make one game, not two different games for multi and single player. Also I'm still trying to figure out how to squish a few hundreds of monsters throw the net with decent latency, and without restricting things too much. I just hope we're not trying to swallow up too big a piece for us.

And I didn't mean to sound like I'd be ashamed of Karu, I'm just still in the phase where I only see the issues, not really the things that went right. :)

[svero]

Hey that's great news. I look for forward to playing CS2. I hadn't actually entertained there'd be an upcoming sequel, so Im pretty pleased to find out there is one in the works.

[James C. Smith]

Here is what was in Real newsletter last week (2006-02-23)


Hotel Solitaire - 3rd week in the top 10 – up from #3 last week
QBeez 2 – 4th week – Down from #1
Gold Miner Vegas – 3rd week – Down from #2
7 Wonders - NEW
Magic Match – 8th week – Down from #4
Tri-Peaks Solitaire To Go – 2nd week – Up from #8
Temple of Bricks - NEW
Karu – 5th week – Down from #5
Luxor - Amun Rising – 12th week – Down from #6
Mirror Magic – NEW


Delisted:

Tradewinds Legends – Lasted 3 weeks peaking at 6
Aloha TriPeaks – Recent encore last1 week. 9th overall appearance
Wonderlines – Lasted 6 week – peaked at #2

[James C. Smith]

Here is the top 10 from this weeks newsletter (2006-03-02)


7 Wonders – 2nd week in top 10 – Up from #4 last week
Mirror Magic – 2nd week – Up from #10
QBeez 2 – 5th week – Down form #2
Hotel Solitaire – 4th week – Down from #1
Temple of Bricks – 2nd week – Up from #7
Inspheration - NEW
Gold Miner Vegas – 4th week – Down from #3
Tri-Peaks Solitaire To Go – 3rd week – down from #6
Magic Match – 9th week – Down from #5
Aqua Pearls - NEW


Delisted:

Karu – Lasted 5 weeks peaking at #2
Luxor - Amun Rising – Lasted 9 week peaking at #1 (for 5 week)


Two Zumaish games leaves the list and a new one comes on.

[James C. Smith]

I stopped making weekly posts here about the Real top 10 list because they didn’t seem to be sparking any interesting conversation. But I have always updated the information weekly at www.game-sales-charts.com. Here is the most recent top 10 list from Real Arcade


Big Kahuna Reef 2 - Chain Reaction (2nd week in the top 10 list)
Diner Dash 2 - Restaurant Rescue (4th week in list)
Teddy Factory (NEW)
Super Collapse! 3 (6th week)
10 Talismans (2nd week)
Mystery Case Files - Huntsville (10th week)
Da Vinci's Secret (3rd week)
Tropix (9th week)
The Da Vinci Code (5th week)
Caribbean Mah Jong (3 week)


Alert readers may notice that recent event are probably the main reason my interest is especially focused on this list lately. But as always, my real focus is not on what is in the top 10 this week. The real focus is the longer term trends. How long have those things been in the list? Which ones were in the list for a long time but not anymore? My favorite ‘chart’ for showing these trends is the Each Recent Game's Run Grid (http://www.game-sales-charts.com/cms/index.php?option=com_dbquery&Itemid=33&task=ExecuteQuery&qid=16). It is not the most attractive chart you have even seen, and it is takes a while to learn how to read it, but it shows a lot of interesting information and trends in a small easy to read format (once you learn how).

Of the games currently in the top 10...
Mystery Case Files – Huntsville is currently doing great (just wait ‘till Real launches Prime Suspects). It also looks like Tropix, Super Collapse! 3 and Diner Dash 2 are going to be long term hits.

Here are the games that made their debut appearance in the Real Arcade weekly top 10 list and then dropped out of the list within the last few months.


Cake Mania – 14 weeks including 4 weeks at #1
Feeding Frenzy 2 – 12 weeks including 4 weeks at #1
7 Wonders – 8 weeks including 2 weeks at #1
Mahjong Escape™ - Ancient China – 5 weeks peaking at #3
Fish Tycoon – 5 weeks peaking at #3
Atlantis Quest – 5 weeks peaking at #3
Treasure Island – 4 weeks peaking at #2
Jewel of Atlantis – 4 weeks peaking at #4
Pirate Poppers – 4 weeks peaking at #4
Mosaic - Tomb of Mystery – 3 weeks peaking at #2
Ocean Express – 2 weeks peaking at #4
Babel Deluxe – 2 weeks peaking at #7
Fairies – 2 weeks peaking at #7
Tiki Boom Boom – 2 week peaking at #7
Bengal - Game of Gods – 2 weeks – Peak at #8
Plantasia – 1 week at #5
Flip or Flop – 1 week at #8


And here are some hit games that recently made encore appearances in the Real top 10.


Bejeweled 2 Deluxe – 4 week encore peaking at #8 – Overall 49 weeks in top 10 including 5 weeks at #1
Diner Dash – 3 week encore peaked at #6 – Overall 33 weeks in top 10 with 3 weeks at #1
Zuma Deluxe – 1 week encore at #10 – Overall 67 weeks in top 10 including 18 weeks at #1
Big Kahuna Reef – 1 week encore at #10 – Overall 16 weeks in top 10 including 3 weeks at #1
Wheel of Fortune – 1 week encore at #10 – Overall 17 weeks in top 10 including 2 weeks at #1



I was especially surprised by the poor performance of Plantasia since it is from the creators of Dinner Dash and they gave a convincing talk at Casuality about the extensive usability testing and focus group testing they did to fine tune the play. I also expected Mosaic - Tomb of Mystery to do better than that.

Cake Mania seems to be the (well deserved in my opinion) king of the Dinner Dash clones. Diner Dash 2 could be on track to beat it.

We are finally not seeing any PuzzLoop/Zume type game. But Bejweled style match 3 in a row is still very alive and well.

Fish Tycoon did better than I expected considering is does not look very polished visually. It did (and still is doing) very well on Reflexive Arcade and several other sites, but it still surprised me that it did this well in Real. I guess this just proves that the audience is not shallow. They will buy great games even if they don't look great. I do believe Fish Tycoon is a great game. I just expected the Real audience to demand stronger visuals. I was wrong.

[Stu]

Except in the case of RA exclusives (which there seem to be more of these days) it appears that just about every title is released everywhere else (BFG, whether exclusive or not, Yahoo, Reflexive...) before it hits RA. Why are they the last to get these games out, or am I just imagining things?

7 Wonders considerably outperformed the other recent match 3 games, spending about twice as long on the RA top 10. I can only attribute this to the little animated characters slaving away at the construction of various structures. Without that it's pretty straight match 3. It's very polished but so are the others. If those little guys got them an extra month on the top 10 I'd say it was a shrewd investment.