What to do...?

[nemo54321]

I've been talking with some other Indie developers... one in particular is my delima. This other guys is terribly negative and long winded. Whenever I mention ideas or things I get nothing but resistance.

For example, I was thinking for starting a paper campaign for Indie portals and games.

I think it would be a good idea to get some Indie sites out there on paper, the flyers would be distributed at colleges and nerd stores (cards shops, comic stores, and D&D related places).

The other developer thinks that this idea is just plain stupid and a waste of time and money... and complains that I can't get any workers without money.

I was looking for volunteers... aside from myself.

Any suggestions? Should I stop conversing with this negative person? Or am I the one that's wrong?

-- Joe Hawkins

[kerchen]

You need to decide whether there is any benefit to working with this long-winded negative person. If his/her comments are useful and help you see possible problems you hadn't considered, then it might be worthwhile to keep listening to that person. Otherwise don't waste your time. There is no shortage of people willing to tell you you can't do something.

[Sunshine]

I would love to help you out. Sadly there are no nerd shops in my town :(

I have found that a few people that choose CS as a hobby or career, quickly get the 'Better than You and everyone else + Know it all' attitude. When compounded with thier sandpaper-like personality, and inferiority complexes, it can come off a bit negative. :rolleyes:

One of the big exceptions to this is the people on this board who I have found to be Very helpfull and positive, even though the questions I ask are moronic at best :)

[MattInglot]

I think it would be a good idea to get some Indie sites out there on paper, the flyers would be distributed at colleges and nerd stores (cards shops, comic stores, and D&D related places).

Regardless of what the person says, for an idea like that it wouldn't hurt terribly to try it out first on a small scale. Print off a few hundred flyers, come up with a way to track if someone came from a flyer, and examine the results. An experiment like that would be far more useful than asking someone to theorize about it and would prevent you from wasting too much time on it if the idea should prove unfruitful.

[svero]

I think its beneficial. I dont know why all the CD's went away. There use to be shareware cd's in tons of shops. Maybe its just too expensive. Perhaps now that inet distrubution is getting tougher/more expensive we'll see a hybrid marketing approach come back. Demo cds, paper, inet etc...

Id help but im nowhere useful.

- S

[GameStudioD]

If you are having problems working with someone, cut your losses.

I have a really good graphic artist friend who I have known for 4 years. We have tried to collaborate on a game but it just doesnt work. I draw circles, he draws squares. We just can't agree on anything when it comes to games. Regardless, he is still my friend but we dont work together on games.

I have found that a few people that choose CS as a hobby or career, quickly get the 'Better than You and everyone else + Know it all' attitude. When compounded with thier sandpaper-like personality, and inferiority complexes, it can come off a bit negative. :rolleyes:

I have met many of these people and I dont like them. They believe the amount of knowledge they have is directly related to penis size. Next time you see a CS guy carrying on about how much he knows, think about that last sentence and everything will be a lot clearer.

[Indiepath]

I've been talking with some other Indie developers... one in particular is my delima. This other guys is terribly negative and long winded. Whenever I mention ideas or things I get nothing but resistance.
.
.
.
Any suggestions? Should I stop conversing with this negative person? Or am I the one that's wrong?

-- Joe Hawkins

Your last two questions has to be answered. I'd answer to the "Am I the one that's wrong?" question first.

Is it you who has always started new fancy ideas with him (or other developers) but haven't actually completed anything? Do you change your plans often? Are the other developers tired of new changed ways all the time? (I'm not suggesting you do this, but consider it for a moment) Take a time and ask for his opinion and ask *what he would like to do*. Try to truly understand other and what he wants. Make sure you both know what you both want and where you both are heading.

After you have done the previous step you are much closer to knowing if you are heading to right direction. If there has been some kind of misunderstanding and you both are willing to work together then go together.

If the other developer still persistenly is saying "no" for everything (just for the pleasure of saying something negative) then it's most likely a negative source of energy and your paths should go in separate directions.

Please keep us informed about how it goes.

[Peter Wayne]

First of all you dont want to hang around negitive people. Constructive criticism is fine, but negitive people only drag you down.

You idea is good. Have you thought about maybe doing a magazine. It could be free or for a small fee. Maybe get sponsors to help you out. Even get developers to advertise in it. I tend to think that flyers dont really work that well. Advertising at Colleges, comic stores, D&D related places are all good ideas. Have you considered also adding places where hardcore gamers go like LAN events. I know most are solely gamers, but you will find some developers among them. I think it's going to be hard to get it out to your target audience no matter what.

You should also ask the organizers of indie game conferences and meetings to see if you could give your mag/flyer out.

I'm just trying to give you a few more ideas. I wish you the best of luck. I also hope you can find people who are willing to help out.

Cheers,

[Nemesis]

I don't wish to critisize either IndiePath or his "negative" developer friend.. just give some thoughts on the idea itself:

There are two important considerations when selling independent games online:
1) Your market is a very small fraction of the global consumer market.. you need to find people with access to the internet, that love playing games, that love non-hardcore AAA titles, that love your particular game style, and that are willing to purchase it even if it doesn't come in a box (assuming this is not done by most indies).
2) To compensate for (1), selling online provides a global sales medium that anyone with an internet connection can access.

While sending out fliers in your local district could definitely raise awareness about your services and products, it is unlikely going to generate significant sales.

Consider conversion rates for a moment, with a good CR being 0.1 to 0.5%, this means that for every 200 - 1000 internet users actually showing an interest for your particular game, only one will actually purchase it.

Now consider that out of your broader flyer audience, only 5%, say, are interested in your game, that means you need to capture at the attention of least 20,000 potential customers with your flyers.

Obviously this is my take on things, and I'm throwing several assumptions for good measure. However, the point of my argument is that flyers may perhaps be too localised and spread out from your market niche to be of any significant benefit.

I believe you will get far better results by, say, asking an indie game review site to have a look and review your game, set up an affiliate agreement with other online indie game sites or get it on download.com or Popcap.

As an offline approach, you might consider getting a computer magazine to include your demo on their CD. This of course means targetting a broader audience, but at least, subject to the maganize's circulation, you can benefit from a wider distribution of your demo.

[nemo54321]

An experiment like that would be far more useful than asking someone to theorize about it and would prevent you from wasting too much time on it if the idea should prove unfruitful.


:) Yeah, I wasn't looking for theory, I was looking for help.

[nemo54321]

You idea is good. Have you thought about maybe doing a magazine. It could be free or for a small fee. Maybe get sponsors to help you out. Even get developers to advertise in it. I tend to think that flyers dont really work that well. Advertising at Colleges, comic stores, D&D related places are all good ideas. Have you considered also adding places where hardcore gamers go like LAN events. I know most are solely gamers, but you will find some developers among them. I think it's going to be hard to get it out to your target audience no matter what.

You should also ask the organizers of indie game conferences and meetings to see if you could give your mag/flyer out.

I'm just trying to give you a few more ideas. I wish you the best of luck. I also hope you can find people who are willing to help out.


Hells yeah!! That's how the flyer thing came about!! Magazines are expensive, flyers are not.
So you start a paper campaign by passing out flyers/bifolds and if you ever get an active user base then you start to present them with more sophisticated forms of information!! :cool:

-- Joe

[nemo54321]

Your last two questions has to be answered. I'd answer to the "Am I the one that's wrong?" question first.

Is it you who has always started new fancy ideas with him (or other developers) but haven't actually completed anything? Do you change your plans often? Are the other developers tired of new changed ways all the time? (I'm not suggesting you do this, but consider it for a moment)


In the forum that I suggested this idea, I am the moderator and I just had the thought. In my personal life I am that guy... let's do this... no this... no this...

But, now that I'm on the Indie gaming warpath, I have had a strong surgance of commitment to this and other parts of my life. Good thought though.



After you have done the previous step you are much closer to knowing if you are heading to right direction. If there has been some kind of misunderstanding and you both are willing to work together then go together.

If the other developer still persistenly is saying "no" for everything (just for the pleasure of saying something negative) then it's most likely a negative source of energy and your paths should go in separate directions.


Let's hope we can work it out... things always seem to get resovled with this person, luckily.

-- Joe

[nemo54321]

I don't wish to critisize either IndiePath or his "negative" developer friend.. just give some thoughts on the idea itself:

There are two important considerations when selling independent games online:
1) Your market is a very small fraction of the global consumer market.. you need to find people with access to the internet, that love playing games, that love non-hardcore AAA titles, that love your particular game style, and that are willing to purchase it even if it doesn't come in a box (assuming this is not done by most indies).
2) To compensate for (1), selling online provides a global sales medium that anyone with an internet connection can access.

While sending out fliers in your local district could definitely raise awareness about your services and products, it is unlikely going to generate significant sales.

This is aim is the center of my campaign...

Was that catchy? I didn't really think so. Anyway, I just think that an increased awareness is a good start. A little more buzz in any fashion is all I'm after... for now. :)



As an offline approach, you might consider getting a computer magazine to include your demo on their CD. This of course means targetting a broader audience, but at least, subject to the maganize's circulation, you can benefit from a wider distribution of your demo.

I have considered this, and I think it's a fabulous idea... I just don't have a game yet. :(

[nemo54321]

Have you considered also adding places where hardcore gamers go like LAN events.


LAN events!! Brilliant.

-- Joe

[nemo54321]

You need to decide whether there is any benefit to working with this long-winded negative person. If his/her comments are useful and help you see possible problems you hadn't considered, then it might be worthwhile to keep listening to that person. Otherwise don't waste your time. There is no shortage of people willing to tell you you can't do something.


This is the only reason I don't completely ignore him... he grounds me and helps me think of hurdles to overcome, or how to avoid them all togehter.

-- Joe

[Cogin]

I don't see anything wrong with finding out problems as early as possible. It's better to give up before start and try something else than to waste time/money and only realize that was a mistake when it's too late.
Of course it's important to be realistic about these problems, and see which are really showstopers and which are only passable obstacles.

[nemo54321]

I don't see anything wrong with finding out problems as early as possible. It's better to give up before start and try something else than to waste time/money and only realize that was a mistake when it's too late.
Of course it's important to be realistic about these problems, and see which are really showstopers and which are only passable obstacles.


I agree... but there is a difference between offering advice or critacizm over a bad idea... and just knocking the wind out of someone's sails.

It's all in the way you present your opinions.

-- Joe Hawkins

[Indiepath]

I don't wish to critisize either IndiePath or his "negative" developer friend.. just give some thoughts on the idea itself:
.
.
.

Lost me. Critisize me? or my... or who's friend? Was there a typing error or is my English flawed. (propably my English... ;))

[Nemesis]

Oops.. it's my brain that's flawed.. it was intended for Nemo54321..sorry!

Hey.. don't criticize my English.. I'm reasonably confident that it's better than your Maltese! :P

[edit].. "criticize" and not "critisize".. sorry again!

[Indiepath]

I criticized *MY* English ;)