Feedback Request: Take Down

[KayGee]

Any chance some of you guys could give me some "honest" feedback on my latest game. Its a puzzle bonanza, colour matching, block busting casual game fiesta!

Screenshot:

http://www.cokeandcode.com/takedown/takedown.png

Windows Exe Installer (~5MB):

http://www.cokeandcode.com/takedown/takedown-1.exe

The (rudimentry beginning) Website:

http://takedown.cokeandcode.com

Any feedback is appreciated but I especially interested in:

- The style of the game
- Bugs
- Comments on originality/gameplay.

There is at least one known bug to do with blocks getting stuck, though that may well have been solved this iteration. Be aware the levels arn't staggered at all yet so it might seem to easy/hard and feature set available isn't complete (to be extended with a few powerups).

KG.

[soniCron]

The bad:
The graphics are aweful.
Identical gameplay to games like Astropop (which is far better).
If I didn't know about said games, I'd not have a clue how to play this.
Control is too tight.
Music get out of tune when playing. I know what you're trying to do, and you need to scale them all at once, and instantly.
The music was annoying as all getout.
I found no incentive to purchase this game.
Gameplay was bland. (It wasn't even done half as well as other top-selling games of this type.)
This game has absolutely no redeeming value (other than, possibly, a lesson for you).


The good:
Nothing


Closing comments:
Not worth the hard drive space, the bandwidth, and especially the bucks. Waste of time.

The run-down:
Pre-install: N/A
Presentation: bland
Graphics: bland
Sound: bland
Music: bland
Gameplay: bland
Originality: bland
Entertainment: bland
Overall: bland


My recommendation: Don't quit your day job.

[KayGee]

Now thats what I call honest! :)

Ack, Astropop.. its brilliant! Oh well, on to the next prototype.

Kev

[soniCron]

Now thats what I call honest! :)
I know it probably hurts because you spent a good chunk of your time working on it. But I promise you, it doesn't make me feel good to say such things.

Ack, Astropop.. its brilliant! Oh well, on to the next prototype.
I'd recommend not copying one of the top-sellers if you're trying to sell games because you're only going to find yourself in a hole. If you absoulutely must, then put some serious originality in there.

[KayGee]

Well, luckily, its been a weeks work.

Sadly, I didn't actually intend to copy astropop, I thought I'd finally come up with something original.. which is what makes it all the more depressing.

That said, thanks for point it out,

Kev

[Vorax]

I know it probably hurts because you spent a good chunk of your time working on it. But I promise you, it doesn't make me feel good to say such things.


That's a KG game...no worries about the time he spent. He spits out working versions of games faster then most can complete writing a post on this board :)

[Sirrus]

How did SoniCron become the Simon Cowel of IndieGamer?

Honestly it is not as horrible as he made it out to be...in fact not too bad considering one weeks work.

I understand you are just trying to help Daniel (in some way), but I'm really interested to hear what titles you have released? Judging from your website, none.

And please don't come back with an array of titles worked on in the industry - plenty of us have industry experience, its a much different game in the downloadable market. It takes a lot of work to bring an independent title to gold so I'm rather interested in what gives you the credentials for harsh criticism on most titles presented here.

[luggage]

Ignore Soni-Cron - I think he's trying to get the market smaller by discouraging newcomers :)

It's not that bad at all. Firstly there's a game there which is the tricky bit. It would require a bit of effort to turn it into something top notch but none of it major.

* First off you need to start it in fullscreen. I run a res of 1920x1200 and the game window is quite small. Having fullscreen seems more professional straight away. Stick in a company logo screen - get your company brand going from the start.

* The installer seems a little short - you should place a shortcut on the desktop at the least.

* The graphics could do with being spruced up a little. At the moment they're functional and do the job but they could really do with some more oomph. Try seeing if you can get an artist on board for the project. Seeing as you have a working version it might not be that difficult. Same goes for the music.

* You need to describe the game to the user somehow. You could put a tutorial in or at the very least a help screen. I didn't realise what the BONUS stuff did. Took a while to work out I was spelling someone and even then I'm still not sure what I got for collecting all the letters.

* Too hard - the levels go on far too long. Make the earlier levels get over quicker. Not sure how it decides on the next level but say you need to make 30 groups of 3 at the moment, change it to 5 groups of 3, then next level 8 groups of 3 and so on. Or maybe start the game with just 3 colours and introduce different coloured blocks as it goes on.

* There needs to be more game there. Try adding some different game modes which are just based off your current rule set. For example, one mode as it is, another that plays for a fixed amount of time and that's it, another that lets you make lines horizontal and vertical, maybe a mode where you have to collect coconuts (or anything) that appear in the grid - you need 10 to finish a level - to get one you need to pick it up with the magnet..

* A highscore table would be good. Especially if it's online - I have some code lying around somewhere which might give you somewhere to start if you need it. Or try searching on this board, there's been a few topics about it.

* Didn't grasp the bombs for a while. Maybe have it so if a single bomb is next to a set that you get rid of then the bomb goes off. You can reduce the amount of bombs on the board then - this would make them more precious. If you grab one with the magnet and then throw it it'll go off straight away. If you do put 3 together then you get a 'super' explosion.

* Add more things to do in the game.
Maybe a glowing gold box which give a load of points because they're quite rare.
A bonus multiplier - when you make one set start a 5 (tweak this obviously) second countdown, if you do another set in this time then give a x2 bonus, and if they keep doing it they get x3, x4 and so on. Give lots of feedback when this happens, eg. pop up a X2 and play a sfx where the boxes are and alpha it off while scaling up.
You could have something which scaled up the magnet so you are collecting two or three columns at once - would make it quite tricky.
Depending on what style\theme for the artwork you pick you could make your magnet fire shots like breakout games to trim them down.
A powerup that makes the bottom box of each column explode.
One that pauses all the boxes for N seconds.
Maybe have the boxes get rid of groups, like if you make 3 red vertically and there's a red one in the column next to it touching then that goes as well - any ones left 'hanging free' can go to (like puzzle bobble).

Phew - will stop there.

Seriously though, stick at it. With a bit more effort and patience you could have something nice there.

[soniCron]

...in fact not too bad considering one weeks work.

He said nothing about "one weeks" worth of work until after I posted my opinion.
He asked for "honest", which I usually am about these things.


I understand you are just trying to help Daniel (in some way), but I'm really interested to hear what titles you have released? Judging from your website, none.
I'm not following why my rap sheet has anything to do with reviewing his game. He asked for feedback. Nobody gave him anything for most of the day, so I did. What credentials does a customer have to judge a game? Surely they haven't any experience releasing games, yet their opinion matters most. So don't lecture me on how I'm not qualified to tell him my opinion when the only thing you offered was, "Honestly it is not as horrible as he made it out to be..." which is completely useless to him (though I'm sure it made him feel better).

I'm not here to massage anyone's ego and I can assure you that a customer's opinion is going to hurt far more when they refuse to take out their wallets. If they do take them out, then I will stand corrected. But that has yet to be seen.

I had you pegged as a pretty stand-up guy. I've been following your posts since the Dexterity board, and frankly, I expected more from you. Attacking me for voicing my opinion on a subject I am well qualified to discuss is just plain rude. You do not know my experience so you have no place to judge my feedback.

I'm seriously disappointed by your knee-jerk reaction to my opinion, especially since you offered nothing constructive in return. How dare you.

EDIT: Grammar

[Sirrus]

Daniel, your analysis of his game I felt was really quite harsh. I'm not hoping that we all offer praise to massage someone's ego, but the review was beyond constructive.

"Closing comments:
Not worth the hard drive space, the bandwidth, and especially the bucks. Waste of time."

How is this offering insight?

Honestly what kind of community are we trying to foster here? Regardless of how poor you believe the game to be, I felt that this particular review provided very little return value to the developer.

I do appreciate thorough analysis of games that you have commented on, separating pros/cons and rating the various sections, but it really struck a cord in me on this one as I saw the entire review as an attack.

The reason I brought up credentials is because for a review like that, I was hoping you had some pretty big games under your belt to be able to judge a game that harshly. Its great to see a game from a customer point of view, but I think it is equally, if not more, important to see it from a developer view first on here.
Only then can adequate suggestions be given to help improve the game.

I don't mean this as an attack on you, but that review really just left a bad taste in my mouth.

No intention for a flame war :) Feel free to drop me a line if you'd like to talk further though.

[soniCron]

Honestly what kind of community are we trying to foster here?
:) Alright, I concede. You've got a good point. I'll work on being a little more sensetive. But only if you're brutally honest when I release my game in less than a month for beta testing. ;) You are one of the few people who's feedback I'm most looking forward to.

[Sirrus]

Ha! Deal ;)

[Vorax]

The bad:
The graphics are aweful.
Identical gameplay to games like Astropop (which is far better).
If I didn't know about said games, I'd not have a clue how to play this.
Control is too tight.
Music get out of tune when playing. I know what you're trying to do, and you need to scale them all at once, and instantly.
The music was annoying as all getout.
I found no incentive to purchase this game.
Gameplay was bland. (It wasn't even done half as well as other top-selling games of this type.)
This game has absolutely no redeeming value (other than, possibly, a lesson for you).


The good:
Nothing


Closing comments:
Not worth the hard drive space, the bandwidth, and especially the bucks. Waste of time.

The run-down:
Pre-install: N/A
Presentation: bland
Graphics: bland
Sound: bland
Music: bland
Gameplay: bland
Originality: bland
Entertainment: bland
Overall: bland


My recommendation: Don't quit your day job.


I think it was that part of your post that ticked Sirrus [wn] off...it pissed me off also. (Yes, that's your entire post)

There wasn't a single positive thing mentioned and your tone was beyond criticizm into insulting. You called his game annoying, a waste of time, and claimed it had no redeeming qualities. All without a single suggestion for improvement.

Granted, you did take the time to write a comment, which is good - but a simple: "it needs a lot of work all around, and it's very similar to Astropop" probably would have been more helpful.

We shouldn't be stroking anyones ego's, but we also shouldn't be crushing anyones aspirations either. Comments like yours could definetly have that effect on some people.

One day it may be you recieving the review and even if you think you can take it - the reality might be different. Either way, if we all show some respect and courtesy, you won't have to endure it.

As wonderful as we all think our stuff is, to put it out there in front of others takes some balls. Be it a prototype, concept or full game, it's someones work and that alone demands at least some respect IMHO.

The other posts came in while I was up on my soap box writing this one ;) It looks like point was made already

[KayGee]

Wheee.. didn't mean to induce a fight ;) While it was hard to take initially, I'm fairly used to getting feedback from forums and to the different styles people use, just testing the water and the style of posts here really.

Thanks for detailled responses above, lots to think about, one question from a newbie in this world...

Does it matter if a game exists the fairly similar to yours?

Kev

[Emmanuel]

I think it's pretty nice for a week of work.

In terms of gameplay, the idea is interesting however it is pretty tough for a casual gamer to figure out what you're supposed to do. Maybe you should simplify it and just match colored objects and not assemble letters at all, it will take out some of the originality but it would be closer to what people know, with the twist of using a magnet to match things.

In terms of production values, once the gameplay has been revamped, you should contract an artist to produce nice and consistent visuals (the music is also on the annoying side, but I've been guilty of that myself, so I can't criticize.. I am working on improving that for my new title, though).

In terms of approach, this is just my opinion, but you may learn a lot by actually releasing a full game and not giving up after a prototype. Creating a game is the easy part compared to figuring out what to sell and how to sell it, and tying contacts in the industry. My first title (Garden War) sucked in terms of sales, but had I given up at prototyping stage, I would never had been able to correct my aim for my second title (that is still selling strongly), or make contacts (co-opetitors, magazines that feature my games on their CD, reviewers, ...) that are instrumental in making sales.

Best regards,
Emmanuel

[sparkyboy]

Hi kaygee,

Man calm down guys,no need to fight amongst ourselves.Anyhoo downloaded the game and tried to run it,but unforyunately it starts to load then just crashes out with no error message or log(at least not 1 I could find) :confused:

From the screenshot though it looks like a game id very much enjoy(love puzzle logic type games ;) )

As regards to critique I can't say due to it not running on my machine but for only 1 WEEKS WORK. :eek:

Kudos Kaygee and keep on plugging away (thats what I usually do :D )

P.S.
I have a 500 mhz amd k6/2 with sis 6326 8 meg graphics and win ME.

All the best

Mark.

[KayGee]

I think "sis 6326" is the problem here... you're right it should detect failure and not just bail but I don't think you've got good OpenGL support on those SIS embedded stuff?

Sorry about that, I could swap to directX I guess but in that language I'm using that'd cost me a massive download and stop my Linux and MacOSX version working :(

Hmmm..

Kev

[sparkyboy]

Thats it Kaygee no OPEN GL here.My girlfriend is sending me the guts of her old computer i.e. motherboard,Graphics card (geforce something or other),memory and hard drives. :cool:

Should get it all in a week or so,will then try the game again and submit my critique. ;)


All the best


Mark.

[Kaos]

The bad:
The graphics are aweful.
Identical gameplay to games like Astropop (which is far better).
If I didn't know about said games, I'd not have a clue how to play this.
Control is too tight.
Music get out of tune when playing. I know what you're trying to do, and you need to scale them all at once, and instantly.
The music was annoying as all getout.
I found no incentive to purchase this game.
Gameplay was bland. (It wasn't even done half as well as other top-selling games of this type.)
This game has absolutely no redeeming value (other than, possibly, a lesson for you).


The good:
Nothing


Closing comments:
Not worth the hard drive space, the bandwidth, and especially the bucks. Waste of time.

The run-down:
Pre-install: N/A
Presentation: bland
Graphics: bland
Sound: bland
Music: bland
Gameplay: bland
Originality: bland
Entertainment: bland
Overall: bland


My recommendation: Don't quit your day job.

if this a release for the original nintendo entertainment system, it would still kinda suck.

sorry tried and have to agree, bland.

music= repetitive, need something with a better beat, try techno. all objects in game look like drawn with color pencil, and someone got some black in all of your pencils, yuck

didnt understand the meaning of the letters, perhaps if i had a clue that i was spelling something, that may be interesting,

[KayGee]

Glad to hear it worked on your machine! :)

Comments noted, thanks.

Kev

[Vorax]

Does it matter if a game exists the fairly similar to yours?

Kev

Not if your game has good production values and has some new things going on (although that isn't even always required)... 85% of what comes out of the indie world is infact just a variation of another game. In the case of casual games that percent is probably closer to 95%. It's the presentation (polish), useability and fun that seperates the games, not their concepts.