Xbox Live Arcade

[dburger]

I'm curious what kind of success people are having selling through Xbox Live Arcade. There have been a few comments sprinkled through the formus, but I'd enjoy getting an update on how sales are doing from the folks here who have games in the Arcade.

Thanks.

[wazoo]

I'm curious as well...

I'm trying (like hell) to get my hands on an XBox dev kit to start playing with it and seeing if we can port our project over to it.

Since we're still a very new startup though, is it still possible to get one?

The "request form" we've been asked to fill out seems fairly geared towards AAA development houses and/or teams who have shipped a few successfull titles.

[tolik]

First of all, check the list of published titles:
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/livearcade/games.htm

[Indiepath.T]

I was told by the xbox people that the Dev kit is no longer available (but you can still apply for it :confused:) and that I would have to work with one of the existing development companies to port my game over.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I was told by the xbox people that the Dev kit is no longer available (but you can still apply for it :confused: ) and that I would have to work with one of the existing development companies to port my game over.
All you really need is an Xbox debug Kit. (the clear green boxes) The only things the full xbox development kits (the taller, clear white boxes) add are a serial port for kernel debugging (which no one has needed for years now), and the DVD emulator hardware, which you won't need if you are making downloadable game.

I've been told that it is possible to use a modded x-box as a debug kit. It'll only have 64MB of memory (the development and debug kits have 128mb), but that shouldn't be a problem for smaller games. You'll still have to obtain the current XDK, and I am not sure if any if using any of the development xbox live services will subject you to mod-chip check.

[tolik]

We are existing porting company working on Xbox Live Arcade platform. Feel free to contact me for more information.

[wazoo]

All you really need is an Xbox debug Kit.

The debug kit...sorry that's what I'm trying to obtain. I meant to say that instead of the fully blown dev kit.

[dburger]

I'm still curious if anyone can comment on whether they feel that their sales on Xbox Live Arcade have been good enough to justify the development cost?

It seems to me that the majority of the Arcade audience are hard core gamers, not casual gamers who visit the portals.

With all the new systems sporting built-in networking, I have great hopes that over the next few years casual games can move from the PC into the living room, but I question whether the Xbox Live arcade is currently producing enough sales volume to warrant the cost of porting.

[PoV]

Well, if you're feelin' rich, there's one on ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62054&item=8195367684&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[Spaceman Spiff]

Well, if you're feelin' rich, there's one on ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62054&item=8195367684&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Oh sh**t. Someone is about to get a call from Microsoft's Legal dept....

I believe it's in your license agreement that you can't resell those.... Also there is the little problem of having a current Xbox Developer account with Microsoft and getting (and keeping up with) the latest XDK's. Most of the Xbox's API's and Libs haven't changed in over 2 years.. except for Xbox Live stuff, which gets almost monthly updates.

And for what's it worth, the current bid ($1075) is actually quite cheap.

[Evak]

BTW I noticed that there are memory upgrades for regular Xboxes avaliable. Some Xbox repair modding disk had order info for the modchip and a 64mb ram upgrade.

Don't know where I saw that though.

[James C. Smith]

I'm still curious if anyone can comment on whether they feel that their sales on Xbox Live Arcade have been good enough to justify the development cost?


It is hard to say for sure, since the reporting of the sales data is very delayed, but so far it does not look good. Development coasts to make Ricochet run on Xbox were very little. But the overall cost increased a lot when we had to make it pass Microsoft's cert requirements, and had to recompile it every 3 days and submit a new build every time they had a new build of their libraries. Now that the Arcade API is more stable, and the cert process is better defined, there should be less of this BS for other titles. Ricochet was the first title for Arcade to be certified.

I have been told that Ricochet is one of the better converting and selling games in Xbox Live Arcade. But the sales we have seen so far do not justify our coasts. Either there are not enough people with Live Arcade CDs and Live accounts, or those people want a different kind of game. Our out of pocket expenses were near $0 but the opportunity coasts of having people work on the project for so long (when they could be making a new game) were very high. Plus we pay those people a salary.

Some good has come out of it. It is hard to quantify the increased exposure we have received from having a title on Xbox. And we have seen more sales than some smaller PC portals. I think if the service was built into the every console, and you didn’t need a subscription, that it would be much more successful. That is why we are making another game (not Ricochet) for Xbox 360 Arcade. Plus, this time we are going less casual.

[ManuelFLara]

That is why we are making another game (not Ricochet) for Xbox 360 Arcade. Plus, this time we are going less casual.
Are you talking about Wik or a brand new game? I read about Wik being a X360 launch title on GameTunnel.

[James C. Smith]

Nothing new. I was refering to Wik.

[dburger]

... the sales we have seen so far do not justify our coasts. Either there are not enough people with Live Arcade CDs and Live accounts, or those people want a different kind of game.

I think if the service was built into the every console, and you didn’t need a subscription, that it would be much more successful. That is why we are making another game (not Ricochet) for Xbox 360 Arcade. Plus, this time we are going less casual. Thanks for the info James. This is what I suspected.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I have been told that Ricochet is one of the better converting and selling games in Xbox Live Arcade. But the sales we have seen so far do not justify our costs. Either there are not enough people with Live Arcade CDs and Live accounts, or those people want a different kind of game. Since this thread started, I've talked to some MS Xbox people about Xbox Live Arcade, and the situation for everyone probably is similar to Jame's or worse. There are some problems with Xbox Live Arcade, which MS is well aware of. There will be changes addressing many of these issues for Xbox 360, but don't hold your breath expect them to be back-ported to Xbox 1. Anyway, here are the main issues faced.

-- there are about 2 million Xbox Live accounts (yea!), but over 20 million Xboxs out there (booh!), so penetration is under 10%. That select group of gamers on Xbox Live are there because they made a committed choice to get the service in order to play specific retail games on. That's another way of saying that the Xbox Live audience represents mostly hardcore gamers, not the casual audience, and they are there for games they already purchased.

-- The Live Arcade payment model is too inflexible. Right now all games cost at least $10 (well, $9.99), and there is no ability to get that below $7, or handle micro-payments/purchases

-- Purchase of an Xbox Live Arcade game requires an active credit card. That rules out a lot of teenagers who got mom & dad to spring for a 1-year Xbox live subscription, or the prepaid subscription cards.

In short, the more casual Xbox owners, who have been more receptive to casual/indie games, aren't on Live for the most part. And for those who are interested, the purchase mechanics can be a problem.

For developers, porting isn't hard but the TCR requirements will take some doing. I wasn't able to confirm (well, I forgot to ask actually) if Xbox 1 Dev Kits are no longer available. I'll try and get that answered soon.

I think if the service was built into the every console, and you didn’t need a subscription, that it would be much more successful. Some foreshadowing perhaps there......

I've been doing some work in this area and will continue doing so. If other indie developers are seriously interested, I'd advise them to look at Live Arcade for Xbox 360 instead of for Xbox 1. Except for a few larger indies already hooked up, Xbox 360 dev kits are going to be bloody hard to come by until after Launch (and yes, they are $10,000). From what I've seen, development (porting) and TCR compliance will be a bit more involved this time around. I also have some questions regarding how Xbox 360 configurations without a hard drive will impact Live Arcade/Downloadable games, which I hope to have answers for soon.

[z3lda]

It might not seem good for casual games, but this defintely opens up the market up for more action oriented games.

[Jim Buck]

XBox 360 devkits ar e$10,000???? Wow, that is amazingly dirt cheap. I'm impressed by how cheap devkits are coming out of the starting gate these days.

[Spaceman Spiff]

XBox 360 devkits are $10,000???? Wow, that is amazingly dirt cheap. I'm impressed by how cheap devkits are coming out of the starting gate these days.
I'll agree with you. For what you get (Alpha HW, R480 refresh, Beta HW, and Final HW) plus all the dev support and software, it's a heck of deal. Microsoft has a ton of incentive to make it as easy as possible for developers to make Xbox 360 games, and to get as many qualified developers as they can.

People put up with crappy expensive dev support from Sony, etc because they didn't know better until Microsoft showed them that it doesn't have to be that painful. Sony has been making a lot of squawking sounds about being easier to develop for this time, hoping to minimize defections of people to Xbox 360 first, then porting to PS3, but I have yet to see them deliver.

My hat is off to Microsoft. For all that people knock them, this is one area in which they are the good guys showing others how it should be done, IMHO. No offense, Jim (you're still at SCEA, right?), but that's what I see from the devs that I know.

On the other hand, for some people here who want to go Xbox, $10K per dev kit can be a big barrier. There may be some interesting partnership opportunities there however... Hmm...

[Spaceman Spiff]

Well, if you're feelin' rich, there's one on ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62054&item=8195367684&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Looks like someone just got owned....