Indiegamer Download Site

[Mike Boeh]

Hey all:

We are considering launching a game download site here at Indiegamer. It would be PAD driven with the emphasis of being fair and equal-opportunity to all developers. There is definitely a place for a high-traffic game download site with no agenda except promoting all indie games.

In order to get the ball rolling, we would ask that you link to it (with a small button) from the home page of your site and/or direct your downloads there. Would you be willing to do this?

[Abscissa]

"PAD driven"? :confused:

[dogbert]

"PAD Driven" means the download site would use the PAD file format from the Association of Shareware Professionals - it's like an info file that describes a shareware program with info about the program/game, links to screenshots, cost etc. Very useful file.

[Mike Boeh]

http://www.asp-shareware.org/pad/

[Vectrex]

cool. I personally like the straight up simplicity of this audio plugins site
www.kvraudio.com

Has simple stuff for voting etc. The icons for type and OS etc are cool. The main page shows everything and you can click the subcatagory up the top if you're only interested in certain things.

[Mike Boeh]

cool. I personally like the straight up simplicity of this audio plugins site
www.kvraudio.com (http://www.kvraudio.com)

Has simple stuff for voting etc. The icons for type and OS etc are cool. The main page shows everything and you can click the subcatagory up the top if you're only interested in certain things.

Actually, we will be basing it on the code from www.downloadsplaza.com (http://www.downloadsplaza.com/).... We have negotiated an agreement to get the code for their site and properly adapt it for Indiegamer. We will be able to customize it a great deal to make it suitable for us (we?) indies...

[Nexic]

I would link to it from my links page, but not my homepage, and I wouldn't direct downloads there. So I'm not sure which to vote for.

Directing downloads there would be a definite no because if in the future I do get decent traffic I wouldn't want to inconvience the user by making them click through another page. Linking from my homepage might happen if it were already a fairly well established site - but at the moment that would be asking too much.

It's not that I don't want to support the indie community, it's just that at the moment every visitor I have is sacred, and I don't want to give them away.

[Vectrex]

Actually, we will be basing it on the code from www.downloadsplaza.com (http://www.downloadsplaza.com/).... We have negotiated an agreement to get the code for their site and properly adapt it for Indiegamer. We will be able to customize it a great deal to make it suitable for us (we?) indies...

eek, well that certainly doesn't cover 'simplicity' ;) Still if it's customisable... I personally really don't like the typical indie site elements like 'top downloads' 'top picks', sections and links for all the genres, screenshots slapped all over the place, etc. As soon as I see a site like that my brain immediately screams and makes me click the close button :cool: (just look at at the AAA gaming sites, they're NUTS). Which is why I like the idea of a dead simple list of recent releases in dated order like the KVR site. But of course that's just my opinion :D

[PoV]

I only clicked a few links there, but would that also mean we'd have to use REGNOW with the service (or will this be one of our enhancements)? Or that's the other question, is it actually forwarding to developers REGNOW accounts, or an affiliate purchase page?

I'm glad to see something like this popping up, as I've been weighing my options to handle a mad burst of traffic. Weather to start off with a pair of those dirt cheap hosts that give you 100 GB of transfer for $10, and somehow partition the downloads between the two. Ok, so all the "impossibilities" aside about single handedly bringing in such a flow of traffic, would such a quantity like this (200 Gigs, or some 30k downloads) over a short period of time be frowned upon, or regarded as a service to the community?

And finally, how is traffic there going to affect us here, in the forum?

[Tertsi]

I'd be willing to link to it from the links section of the site and possibly elsewhere too depending on the coverage.
And if the download page loads fast, I could propably direct my downloads there. But I'd rather see an indiegamer downloader application which uses an installer-like interface (can be indiegamer branded) to download the requested file and record some statistics which can be seen by the file's publisher. (So we could either make the downloader application available from our site or direct to you.) Download.com uses a similar application this for at least some of the files there.

It's nice to see some action like this taken. :)
Other than Retro64, who are the main guys behind this, all of the admins?

Tell us some more details about your plans with the site please.

[ErikH2000]

Hey, after all the talking, somebody's finally going to do it! Nice.

I don't like links to other places on my site--fairly religious about that. But I'd be happy to give the site a warm mention on my forum. Or I'd probably donate twenty bucks to an ad campaign if you had one.

-Erik

[Mike Boeh]

We are not planning on affiliates at all at this point, so the regnow thing will won't matter. All we want from the authors is links, because a popular download site would be good for all of us. We'd like it to be a download site that actually matters, like download.com used to back in the "good old days".

It will take quite a bit of customization to convert that site, but from what I see, it can be done easily. And with a little help from our community here, we think it can succeed.

[ggambett]

We'd like it to be a download site that actually matters, like download.com used to back in the "good old days".
I applaud and support the initiative. On a practical level, however, what's the plan to keep it from falling into irrelevancy, like the other 100s of game listing sites? "Equal opportunity to all developers" is somewhat incompatible with "High quality so users don't have to search between thousands of 100K freeware tetris clones made as a first project in VB"

[Sharpfish]

I haven't voted because I didn't want to mess up the poll with my ignorance. All I can say is I would link to it from my site and support it where I can. Of course my site atm is only google ranked 3 so that wouldn't be much but.. in time.. who knows? ;)

cheers

[cliffski]

[QUOTE=Tertsi] I'd rather see an indiegamer downloader application which uses an installer-like interface (can be indiegamer branded) to download the requested file and record some statistics which can be seen by the file's publisher. /QUOTE]

I strongly oppose this. Poeple are paranoid enough about spyware as it is without installing some dubious 'installer' when they thought they were clicking on a game downlaod link.
I neary aborted a download this morning when I realised It wasn't actually the game, but some branded download manager. I'm happy to let firefox download a file, but if some other program pipes up with a request to go through zone alarm, I panic.

[Mike Wiering]

I think this is a great idea and everyone who participates will probably benefit from it!

It would be nice if we could direct people to this site and be able to guarantee that everything they download there is free of spyware/adware/virusses/etc and doesn't install anything else (like toolbars), only the game itself. Of course that is kind of hard if people can simply submit PAD files, unless someone is going to be testing all submissions manually. Maybe you could have very strict submission rules and have an easy way for users to report spyware etc. Any thoughts about this?

[Hamumu]

I feel as Nexic does. No WAY would I redirect downloads, as I fly into a screaming rage every time I try to download some commercial demo or UT patch and get shunted through 8 different pages before I can actually download. And I wouldn't link to a download site on my home page... most likely. I suppose it depends on how it turns out. If it really is a great resource of "go here to see what the great indie games of the world are", I'd add it to my buttons at the bottom of every page. But if it is just a download site that accepts anything, I'd add it to a link page and nothing else. Definitely, not a decision I'd make without seeing it first anyway! I'm all for indie solidarity, but I don't do ads or redirects*.

* except of course my buddy button ads at the bottom of every page!

[Coyote]

I'm definitely willing to link to it from my website. If everyone does it, it benefits us all.

As far as redirecting downloads, I'm a little wishy-washy on, mainly because each additional page a user has to click on to progress is one more opportunity for them to opt out and give up on the process. So I didn't vote that I would do this, but depending upon the setup I could probably be convinced to give it a try if my own games would get advertised for other people's downloads.

I've seen the term "sacrifice" defined as "giving up something good for something better." I really don't feel like squabbling over the size of pieces of the pie when we all have a chance to grow the entire pie.

[Mike Boeh]

Redirecting downloads is much much less important than links.

As far as the reason it won't slip into obscurity is quite obvious: we would have the support of all the developers- and the links from them to stay popular. We're very open to all ideas, but want to focus on automation.

[Anthony Flack]

Oh hell yes. Go you guys!

[JoshuaSmyth]

I'm all for linking to it. I'd even do it from my main page. As for redirecting downloads I wouldn't do that, my statistics would be harder to monitor that way.

Pad file submission is a good idea. But I think their should be somekind of submission policy, as far as adware, spyware goes. ie Must not include any!

[Sirrus]

Definately...

I feel like every author that is listed should require a return link *somewhere* - if this is going to be a premiere indie download site that is free, then its only fair to offer something in return. This doesn't feel like one of the thousands of download sites that are lost in the shuffle.

[Davaris]

I have some questions. Who will have ownership of this download site? Is there going to be something in writing saying it's owned by the community? I'd hate to see it change hands and policy once it got popular.

[PoV]

Likely the one who pays for the hosting there Davaris. Which is likely the same person paying for indiegamer.com's hosting... at least from what I gather.

[Savant]

Essentially, this is what I'm trying to accomplish with Game Savant. A database of indie games and the site runs off of commission money from affiliate sales.

Game Savant isn't PAD file based because I didn't want it to become a dumping ground of every random game that comes out. I add new games by hand and the users of the site download them/write reviews. The good games stay near the top of the "hottest" list and the ones that people don't like sink down into the archives.

Is there something fundamentally different that is going to be achieved with this new site you're talking about?

[Mike Boeh]

I think Davaris has a valid concern...

Right now, Dan, Steve V, and I each have 1/3rd of it.
Steve owns the domain and works on the site.
Dan works on the site, and is the unofficial "bad guy" :)
I pay for the hosting and work on the site also.

As far as what our intentions are, they are to improve the conditions for all indie developers, including ourselves. We will give our products no special treatment. As far as never selling it, or things like that, how can we guarantee something so broad as that? I can tell you if that was ever a legit problem, then we did our jobs well :)

Edit: I also want to add that we think a link is a fair tradeoff. I would like to think that we have tried to act in the best interests of the community with these forums. And I think that's the real advantage our site would have- the backing of the community itself. That's what would make it possible to succeed.

[Mike Boeh]

Essentially, this is what I'm trying to accomplish with Game Savant. A database of indie games and the site runs off of commission money from affiliate sales.

Game Savant isn't PAD file based because I didn't want it to become a dumping ground of every random game that comes out. I add new games by hand and the users of the site download them/write reviews. The good games stay near the top of the "hottest" list and the ones that people don't like sink down into the archives.

Is there something fundamentally different that is going to be achieved with this new site you're talking about?

Game Savant is one of many sites that already promote Indie games. Russ and Greg are two other examples. And then there are sites like Terragame and DownloadFreeGames that are very affiliate oriented.

The Indiegamer site would be different for these reasons:
1. We would *not* be taking affiliate commissions for games. Perhaps down the road, for developers that didn't link to us, we would consider it. But not even that at present.
2. This would be a download site, not an enthusiast site, that is equal opportunity. We would not decide that some games were not worth it. We will automatically let the users decide what they do and don't like with user reviews, etc.
3. Indiegamer.com is already where a large amount of indies express their opinions and hang out. What better place for momentum to have a download site?

I hope you don't take it as us intentionally trying to become competition with the sites already there. We just feel we have a great opportunity to provide a community driven portal.

[Rainer Deyke]

For a download site to be interesting to the audience I want to reach, it should have the following features: A large selection of high quality games in these genres: platform games, rpgs, action-adventure games, and the various intersections and subgenres of those genres.
A way to quickly filter out uninteresting stuff - adware, games from other genres, crappy freeware or AAA games, anything too casual, anything that is not an actual game in the genres that one is interested in.
Some way to keep the good games from getting lost under the mountains of not-so-good games.
No-hassle downloading, no obnoxious ads.

I would be willing to support a download site that provides these features. However, I will not redirect my downloads.

Side note: it might be useful to provide a single centralized database of indie games that other, more specialized download sites could use.

[KNau]

This is why you should never try to do anything altruistic for an online community. No matter what you come up with people are going to bitch that it's not good enough and while they may tacitly applaud the idea they aren't willing to put anything towards it. Asking for a link might as well be asking for their first born, even from sites with less than 1000 visitors per month. Nice.

[Rainer Deyke]

The fact is that there are literally hundreds of game download sites. A new download site would have to be pretty special in order to stand out from the crowd.

[Mark Currie]

Sounds good. Sign me up.

[arcadetown]

In general many here are far too busy trying to hold onto what little they have instead of giving something to receive it back. Words of advice from one of the most sucessful promoters on this board, link exchanges work.

[JoshuaSmyth]

What would the sites policy be on freeware games? I mean, I understand that freeware games could draw traffic initally, but they might either detract from anyone actually purchasing games (by being able to play enough games for free) or just clog the system if they aren't of a high standard and cause visitors frustration by having to sort through a ton of games.

[Sillysoft]

I would link to the site if I liked how it looked and it's policies/goals.

As far as never selling it, or things like that, how can we guarantee something so broad as that?You could guarantee what happens with the site by writing out a policy for it. Just like a privacy policy governs what can happen with information given out. I think it would be important to have some kind of written policy like this, especially if you want this site to get some traction outside of the indiegamer forums where people know you guys. It's easy for a download site to go downhill rather quickly (i.e. download.com), so if you want the community to really get behind this project I think you should try and spell out as clearly as possible what exactly the site's goals are, how it's run, what can be added, and what's going to happen to it in the future. There's a big difference between helping build up a non-profit community site and a 'community focused' site that could then be sold to a portal in a few years.


In terms of site code, you might want to check out the ASP's PADKit package before buying anything: http://www.padkit.org/
PADKit ... the PAD site starter kit
A free PAD enabled PHP / MySQL shareware download site kit from the ASP, to provide would-be shareware site webmasters with a proven code base to get started...

[Anthony Flack]

This is why you should never try to do anything altruistic for an online community. No matter what you come up with people are going to bitch that it's not good enough


Not me! I think it sounds f'cken awesome and I'd proudly give it a big fat link button. Go! You! Guys!

[NuriumGames]

I'm willing to give it a try, so would link from the main page, but no download redirecting.

[Chris Evans]

My only concern is that I actually prefer the developer-centric traffic this site gets. I realize it's a public forum, but developers say things and post early betas that are usually not meant for a lot of consumer eyeballs. Personally, I'd prefer for my customers not to read this forum if I had the choice.

So I'm up for the idea if there's some clear distinction or barrier between the Indiegamer message boards and the Indiegamer download site. But I'd still like to know what will become of the "Indie Gamer" brand? Is it primarily a developer forum with a download site tacked on or is it a consumer download site with a forum tacked on?

With that said, I say go with it regardless. There's usually too much talk around here and not enough action. Once it actually gets rolling you can always adjust things if necessary.

[Savant]

I hope you don't take it as us intentionally trying to become competition with the sites already there. We just feel we have a great opportunity to provide a community driven portal.
No, not at all. I think the more exposure indie games can get the better it is for everyone. I was just trying to get a feel for how this site would differ from the already existing sites and how it would become something worthwhile for people to visit.

Thanks!

[Mirage]

I think a site where indie games can get some extra exposure is always a good thing.
So I will place a link to it and even direct some part of my downloads there (if it can help in any way :confused: ).
If it become "yet another download archive", of course I'll move the link to my links page, but I hope it will be unusual game archive. ;)

[Gnatinator]

Actually, we will be basing it on the code from www.downloadsplaza.com.... We have negotiated an agreement to get the code for their site and properly adapt it for Indiegamer. We will be able to customize it a great deal to make it suitable for us (we?) indies... So we will be taking the underlying code, but creating a new visual design for it? Sounds good ;)

I think we should scrap the button idea and just combine this with the gamebar suggested a few threads ago. That would link everyone together much nicer. :) Of course many might not be as eager to do this in the sites infancy. So maybe a button->bar transition?


I applaud and support the initiative. On a practical level, however, what's the plan to keep it from falling into irrelevancy, like the other 100s of game listing sites? "Equal opportunity to all developers" is somewhat incompatible with "High quality so users don't have to search between thousands of 100K freeware tetris clones made as a first project in VB" In order to filter out all the crap games, I propose a quality control "council" group. They will test out each game and make sure it is decent before it gets placed onto the site.

I have some questions. Who will have ownership of this download site? Is there going to be something in writing saying it's owned by the community? I'd hate to see it change hands and policy once it got popular. I would really like this to stay a community project.



Anyway, I took some initiative, was working away for a bit and have come up with this: the beginnings of a new indiegamer (http://www.photonikgames.net/indiegamer.png) (in 800x600 lowres test, pretty minimal so far)

Tell me what you guys think. If possible, I would love to be part of the webteam (I have good experience in HTML/CSS/JS/PHP, you can see another one of my works here (http://www.photonikgames.net)).

[fog4711]

Being an ignorant noob I won't mess up the results by voteing. Besides I have no webshop so you guys won't miss my paticipation anyway. However it's nice to read about some action taken. Definitely the idea has potential. Keep up the good work!

fog :cool:

[cyrus_zuo]

With some of the 'for developer eyes' only stuff could you add another board to this forum and them make it only accessible to the 'developers' group? ok I know you could, but perhaps that would be a solution.

I have to admit, as part of the media that I have a hard time parsing what is usable and what isn't, and PMs/emails often go unanswered, which leaves me to leaving things out that might provide a little more pub.

But beyond me it would keep the average user from seeing things that you don't want seen.

[Jim Buck]

There is already the private forum.. but it's a single forum.. maybe it, too, could be subdivided.

[soniCron]

What's the status of this project? Any? Or has the idea been dropped?

[Gnatinator]

I had some sweet stuff rolling in slightly more advanced then the screenshots I posted before. But then I lost it in a format unfourtunatley. :( I will remake it and do it even better, but im currently busy promoting my newley released game. So its not going to be happening immediatley.

Havent really heard from anyone else.

[svero]

What's the status of this project? Any? Or has the idea been dropped?

It's in the works. I think it will happen, just not sure when exactly. Right now it's basically a question of converting the site code we bought to what we exactly want for our site. Should have more on this in a few months time.

- Steve

[RinkuHero]

It's in the works. I think it will happen, just not sure when exactly. Right now it's basically a question of converting the site code we bought to what we exactly want for our site. Should have more on this in a few months time.

- Steve

:eek:

Well this didn't work out very well, did it?

[svero]

Yeah I cant remember what happened exactly. I think we bought some site code from someone for a download site, and he didn't deliver the code or something like that. Maybe Mike would remember. But overall the reason we don't do more with the url is that we're very busy running our own companies, and now that Mike was bought by Popcap I don't think we'll ever do anything more businesslike with the site.