Keyboard ease compared to joystick ease...

[Mickey Crocker]

I have two complete different projects that I have been working on for quite sometime and I'm having a hard time deciding which should be my main focus. So I am constantly trying to figure out the pros and cons of each, and reasons why one would sell better then the other (I can't do both, don't ask, long story :p).

So this is where this questions stems from...

I am creating an action style game, not very causal but I suppose it could be. I'm going after a little different market then the casual gamer. However the controls are both keyboard based and joystick/gamepad based.

Now I find it just as easy to play with the keyboard as the gamepad. However, I let my 7 year old nephew give the game a try, first with gamepad, and then with the keyboard. The gamepad he seemed to have no problem at all and loved the game. However, with the keyboard he seemed to have trouble with the arrow keys for movement, and was constantly looking down to find out which key to press. This made the game very difficult.

However, expecting that most players don't have gamepads (or do they?) then I'm assuming I would lose a lot of potential costomers right at the controls, Is this safe to assume? Keeping in mind that my target market is actually going to be much older, between the ages of 18-35 males.

Should I scrap this “console” style game development and go with my other plans of a computer style turn based rpg? Both of which look great in my opinion and I'm having a hard time choosing between the two.

[Nexic]

Ideally your game should use the mouse for control, if that is at all possible. Games like alien shooter sell well, and need keyboard controls - however they may be a little more action packed than what you are making.

I personally wouldn't go for the rpg, simply because they are incredibly hard to finish.

[PoV]

That depends what you're looking for. If you're looking to get a feel for the business, see how it works and all, and your action game is just a few maps and menus away from completion, then maybe it's worth doing that. If you're new to this, and you're unsure about what you actually want, then maybe it's to your personal benefit to explore other game ideas (like this strategy RPG of yours). Or if you're just looking to build a portfolio and maybe some day land a job at a game studio, then you'll want to polish up what you have and move on to the next porfolio device (your RPG). There's complexities to each direction, and there's nothing any of us can tell you beyond that you have to make the choice. The only advice we can give you is about each choice.

[Mickey Crocker]

Ideally your game should use the mouse for control, if that is at all possible. Games like alien shooter sell well, and need keyboard controls - however they may be a little more action packed than what you are making.

I personally wouldn't go for the rpg, simply because they are incredibly hard to finish.

This game wouldn't be possible to use the mouse... The game I am currently working on relates to this old post (http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=1409 ). It's nes style. However would be quick to finish the games.

I have finished an rpg before (freeware), so I know what it takes to finish. But it does take a lot longer to complete.

[dan]

Very little of your potential audience will have a gamepad. It's a little better because you're going for the 18-35 year old male, but still... I would be surprised if even 20% of that demographic owned a PC gamepad.

Used to be different years ago... gamepads for PC's were fairly popular, and there were several big makers. But I think the rise of consoles has really stolen a lot of the "action" game market. Wasn't that long ago that no self-respecting gamer lacked an expensive joystick....

Anyway, there one dev around here who packaged a gamepad with his game, a pretty good solution.

Sorry. This is just a rambling way of saying that you need to design with the mouse in mind.

[Mickey Crocker]

Sorry. This is just a rambling way of saying that you need to design with the mouse in mind.

yes... understood.

I guess I'll drop the console idea and go back towards rpgs. Ever try to make something work so hard because it seems to be the easiest route to take? I think that is what I've been trying to do here.

[Anthony Flack]

That's certainly the prevailing wisdom. Mouse only. And it's not hard to see why.

There's plenty of games that work well with the mouse, and if you're making this sort of game then that's all well and good. But then again, with everyone making mouse only games, the problem self-perpetuates. If all PC games are mouse-driven, then why would anyone want a gamepad? I guess the reality is that the PC is a very poor choice of platform for game development, but sadly it's just about all we've got.

There are many kinds of games that simply do not work with the mouse, and I would hate to see these genres die out. Most of my favourite games would never work with a mouse. Who will make the next generation of indie platform games?

I'm making a gamepad/keyboard game and that's bound to hurt me financially. But you know, I almost don't give a damn any more. The mainstream games industry is completely in the toilet. And the way it looks to me now, downloadable games aren't that far behind. I'm pretty much at the point of saying, to hell with everyone, my only responsibilty is to make the game as good as I can make it, and if it doesn't make money then that's just too bad. Man, I am bitter.

Having said that, though, the next few games I have lined up are designed around the mouse. The mouse is a really good input device, but only if it's appropriate.

[dan]

Well, I didn't mean to poop in the punchbowl. If it helps any, one of the few confirmed features of the next Xbox is that its gamepads will be compatible with the next PC OS release (Longhorn). Not sure about XP. But at any rate, if MS gets a big share of the console gaming market, there will be a lot more gamers with a PC compatible gamepad in their home.

[Anthony Flack]

Well, I didn't mean to poop in the punchbowl.

No, it's very sensible, realistic advice. The fact is that almost nobody has a gamepad or joystick plugged into their PC these days, since the PC has really lost it as far as being a mainstream gaming device goes.

In the 8 and 16 bit eras, the home computers held their own against the consoles as serious game machines, and everyone's computer had joysticks attached to it. And when I got my first PC 10 years ago, the PC gaming scene was still healthy enough to support some decent releases across all genres.

Today, USB joypads for the PC are cheap and readily available, but nobody bothers with them. What would you use it for? All the good games you need a gamepad for are on consoles now.

I guess we have seen some serious consolidation in the industry in recent years, and the number of gaming systems that can successfully coexist has gotten smaller and smaller. But the PC hasn't exactly helped its own cause - for years now, mammoth installation requirements, poor compatability, high system requirements ("Hey, the graphics card you need to play this game costs more than an Xbox!") and lack of any kind of standard controller has largely made PC gaming more trouble than it's worth. I haven't bothered playing a mainstream game on my PC for years - I'd much, much rather do it on a hassle-free console system.

So what we are left with are just a few game genres that play up to the PC's natural strengths - loads of memory, powerful hardware, mouse control and internet connectivity. Everything else has migrated exclusively to the consoles.

In some ways, the big casual game success stories have done for the PC what the mainstream industry had failed to do for so long - make playing games on the PC a painless, hassle-free experience. But then, the whole casual game boom has been all about selling games to people who don't care enough about games to own any consoles. People who aren't even going to buy a $10 gamepad for their PC.

Which is fine. Except that the PC is also the only open system that most independents have a shot at developing for. This could be a selling point in itself, but after a decade of neglect, what would it take to convince people that the PC is worthy of their gaming attention? What would it take to convince people to buy a gamepad for their PC?

[Fry Crayola]

Nothing, I think.

PCs are predominantly bought nowadays for internet access and home work. Few people by a PC for games, and if they do they're either game nuts (and thus not your target audience) or strategy/FPS nuts (in which case a mouse+keyboard is all they want).

Even big games don't properly support gamepads. I can't play Operation Flashpoint with one even though there's enough buttons and analogue features to incorporate the main control set. Bohemia just didn't bother to support it, except for flying helicopters.

So most action games are sold on the consoles, where you get a pad free. PCs don't come with pads. If they did we'd have a larger audience.

Personally, I don't mind. My current game is mostly mouse driven but if you want to play the match (as opposed to watch from the sidelines) a pad is virtually essential. My ideas for future games go both ways - some are mouse driven, others need a pad. I'll make both.