validity of contract via fax

[Jack Norton]

Sorry this should be more a lawyer question but maybe the more experienced members know something about it:
I was just wondering... a signed contract sent via fax is binding? I knew that only the original copies had value in court, but someone told me that even one sent via fax is binding...!?

[Indiepath]

Proper way to do it is to send the contract (and possible signed copies of it) via regular mail. Will cost much less than consulting a lawyer.

[svero]

It depends on the governing law in the contract and where the fight is beign faught. If you had a faxed contract in a court in california you might get a totally different result than you would in a court in germany or somewhere else. So the real question is... is a faxed contract legal where I plan to enforce the contract.

[Indiepath]

Svero is totally right. If you have a deal for several hundreds (or more) dollars then it's best to use regular mail. International mail won't cost that much than you should risk it by using faxes or email.

[Obscure]

Faxed contracts are legally binding as laws were enected specifically for this. Not sure if the same has been done for digitally signed electronic documents but I am sure it will be one day.

I have seen faxed agreements from UK, US, Japan and Europe. I guess there may be some countries where they aren't binding but I don't know of any. The norm is to send the faxed copy but then courier/post the original so the fax is only used until the original arrives.

[cliffski]

comapnies always want me to fax them contracts, and i always try and avoid it. why?
firstly i dont have a goddam fax machine. and why would i want one? this is 2004 we have email for christs sake! with encryption and public key wossnames etc. Asking for a fax is like asking me to send a goddam carrier pigeon.
I once emailed someone a scan of a signed contract and they refused it, saying it needed to be faxed. This is the product of a seriously warped mind.
I always post the contract when I can, but I find this obsession with an easily forged 'signature' that lawyers have to be totally baffling in this day and age. Its just an excuse to take more time and money over negotiations

[svero]

I once emailed someone a scan of a signed contract and they refused it, saying it needed to be faxed. This is the product of a seriously warped mind.

You're just lucky he didnt declare you a heratic and try to have you burned at the stake!

What century did you email that too?

[Red Marble Games]

I'm a lawyer by day, indie by night, and the answer at least in the U.S. is that a faxed contract is just as valid as an original -- and you don't need an original to go to court, either. There's always the possibility that the defendant would say "I didn't sign that," or some such, but you face that possibility whether you have an original or a fax.

svero is right that YMMV depending on what country you're in, but I guess I would be surprised if the rule is different elsewhere.

[Diodor Bitan]

Original post by cliffski
Asking for a fax is like asking me to send a goddam carrier pigeon.

Reminds me of http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt

[Indiepath]

I'm a lawyer by day, indie by night, and the answer at least in the U.S. is that a faxed contract is just as valid as an original -- and you don't need an original to go to court, either. There's always the possibility that the defendant would say "I didn't sign that," or some such, but you face that possibility whether you have an original or a fax.

svero is right that YMMV depending on what country you're in, but I guess I would be surprised if the rule is different elsewhere.

Interesting. Always good to learn new every day.

[z3lda]

Mark,

What about using paypal to bind someone to a contract? Such as saying..

By accepting this payment you agree to the following terms (If they accept the money is transfered to their paypal account)

[Contract goes here]

[Jack Norton]

Yes exactly, I had about the same question: I heard that for certain contracts even the email is valid or can have some value. So what, I must even be careful every single line I write also in a email!??!
For example I got a friend who asked a guy to make graphics (for a website, not game), he did say just something like "I want this graphics, when you send it to me I'll pay you", and that guy sent an email with graphics that weren't satisfacting my friend. He didn't want to work anymore because he said that in the email he didn't specified exactly what he wants, and now want to bring him on court! :D
lol sometimes seems that certain people exist only with the purpose of trying to trick someone who isn't a lawyer (or can't afford to have one)...!

[Red Marble Games]

Well, taking what I say with a grain of salt since you can't really give legal advice without knowing all the facts in a particular case, in most jurisdictions and in most fact situations the question is just whether there was an agreement or not -- whether people actually agreed to something, intending to be bound. That can be proved lots of ways; an original contract is one way, a faxed contract is another, an email trail might be another, and a click-license might even be another, depending on the circumstances. In general, as you get further away from a nice signed contract you introduce more doubt about whether either side really meant to get into a binding agreement, or exactly what they agreed on. The judge (or, in some instances, a jury) will look at the evidence in the particular situation and decide whether the two sides meant to enter into a binding agreement and what they agreed. If there's any significant money at stake, it's always better to have a contract to be clear about these things.

[Nauris]

There were scanned contracts mentioned: do they fall under the same rules as faxed ones?

[Ratboy]

I've never had a problem with faxed contracts. It's just another way of delivering them.

[KNau]

One way to make the fax more legitimate is to have witnesses also sign the contract at either end. That way there's more people on the hook if someone tries to claim they didn't really sign it. Any computer with a modem can send a fax but I just use a copy center - only costs about $10 bucks.

If you are going to be sending a lot of crap by courier and sending faxes (especially overseas) I would recommend factoring that into your demands for an advance. In closing the deal for my old game I've spent almost $200 dollars in couriers and faxing. It's all tax deductable but still a nuisance back when there was no money coming in yet.

I completely agree with the complaints about how publishers are clinging like dinosaurs to old methods and technology. I still get demands to ship phyical disks - like no one has heard of FTPs?

[Obscure]

There were scanned contracts mentioned: do they fall under the same rules as faxed ones? No, the law was updated specifically to handle facsimile transmitions years back. To my knowledge no additional update has happed yet for computer/digitally transmitted data. - Of course I could be wrong.

[Matthew]

Personally, I've encountered some anal legal departments: blue ink on signatures only, etc. In my opinion it's more about satisfying their desires as a business courtesy than it is producing documents that satisfy minimum legal requirements.