"Casualizing" genres

[Bmc]

I'd be wanting to start this type of discussion for awhile.

Which game genres would you like to see appear in the casual game space? How would you go about making them more casual?

Personally, I'd love to see an ultra-casual RPG(Could PopQuest fill this void ;)). Ever since I played Paper Mario and the 1000 Door I have believed this would be possible.

Obvious ways to make this genre more casual.
Shorter missions/puzzles/story segments.
Eliminate save points (checkpoints?) and automatically save the user's progress when they exit.
Simpler battle systems that involve more user interaction (Paper Mario is a perfect example of this)
Avoiding use of heavy fantasy elements.
A much simpler experience points system. (again Paper Mario is a good example)
More "casual-friendly" difficulty level
Decrease or completly eliminate any violent gameplay (sword stabbing etc)

[princec]

I have an ultra-casual RPG in the works. I've been a big fan of nethack for years but always amazed (and disappointed) that no-one had made a bean from all the effort that went into making it. Also perpetually irritated by the clumsy keyboard interface.

The RPG I'm working on is a bit like a cross between Strange Adventures in Infinite Space and nethack, with a game lasting only a few minutes. The problem I'm having is with graphical style; it's difficult to really make RPGs "look casual" without looking basically like cartoons (a la The Black Knight).

Cas :)

[dima]

Zelda for GBA is pretty casual in terms of play, graphics, and everything else. It's still an RPG/Adventure game, and no matter how hard you try it might not appeal to the super casual gamer who likes to play solitare and match3 types of games.

Personally, I love PRGs, and am planning in the future to make something small for the downloadable space, but that's for the future. It's hard to make good RPGs and they are usually graphics intensive. I'm all for it though, so some day ...

As for casualising any game, it's possible, maybe not for all games, but surely most games can be polished enough to be easy to pick up and hard to put down, and that's IMO what makes the games casual; small learning curve, easy to play, fun, and fast.

FPS: how casual can you really do here? same old mouse+wasd is best you can deliver, and for me, that's easy enough, but will it appeal to the mass market of women?

RPG: fun for most, but sometimes they take way to much time playing, and you must pay attention, read, do little things, basically my favorite type of games, but will the same mass market women who play JewelQuest have the time? some definitely will, but who knows.

SPORTS: ... nothing casual here, but maybe it's time to make osmething :)

SHOOTERS/SCROLLERS: they are already as casual as it gets, not much can be changed here

PUZZLE: this is probably the forte of the casual market

STRAGETY: this has potential

everything else, and whatever I missed, doesn't fall far from these types, and I think that any game could be made better, but that doesn't mean that it will have the same appeal to the mass market. If you make an RPG too simple, it will not be a good RPG, if you make a real time strategy game too simple, it will fall in between being a little too involving to the super casual player,and not enough for the real strategy player, so it's hard to please.

[dima]

The RPG I'm working on is a bit like a cross between Strange Adventures in Infinite Space and nethack, with a game lasting only a few minutes. The problem I'm having is with graphical style; it's difficult to really make RPGs "look casual" without looking basically like cartoons (a la The Black Knight).
Cartoony graphics are usually the best choice for casual games, realistic is very hard to pull off, but toons can look great even if they don't look real. What about Zelda style graphics? Or pre-rendered 3D sprites usually look good? Anime style can prove to be great if drawn correctly. I personally would prefer the Zelda type graphics for a 'casual RPG'

I think RPGs can have some good results once they start coming to the casual space. They usually have good graphics to look at, simple enough gameplay to be picked up, and plenty of little things to do that's 'gameplay' like minigames, puzzles and inventories. All those little things make RPGs my #1 genre, and I definitely am looking forward to seeing some small ones come to life soon. I prefer the Zelda on GBA to huge RPGs, because of the cartoony cute graphics and easy gameplay.

[Bmc]

I have an ultra-casual RPG in the works. I've been a big fan of nethack for years but always amazed (and disappointed) that no-one had made a bean from all the effort that went into making it. Also perpetually irritated by the clumsy keyboard interface.

The RPG I'm working on is a bit like a cross between Strange Adventures in Infinite Space and nethack, with a game lasting only a few minutes. The problem I'm having is with graphical style; it's difficult to really make RPGs "look casual" without looking basically like cartoons (a la The Black Knight).

Cas :)

Good stuff! How far along are you? As for the look ... a suggestion, it's still is kinda cartoony but not really the same as BK... you could always go for a claymation type of look like platypus, more specifically like Neighbors from Hell.

[ManuelFLara]

As a strategy fan I'd like to see some casual strategy games, in the sense of 'game in 5 minutes or so'. I enjoy +1 hour Starcraft games, but unfortunately I don't have much time for them now.

Some days ago I downloaded the Lux demo and I'm amazed how quick the games tend to be. Risk games take a lot of time (both to set up and to actually play), but I can play a Lux game versus 3 CPUs in 5 minutes. Nice!

[dima]

I enjoy +1 hour Starcraft games, but unfortunately I don't have much time for them now.
Warcraft3 is pretty good, it's the only game I actually paly sometimes. 1v1 can last anywhere between 10 minutes and2 hours, depending on how good you are, but most games I play last about 10-20 minutes. It's definitely my favorite strategy game now, and I love the graphics and the heros that level up.

Now that type of game, but with smaller armies might be somewhat more casual, but then will it appeal to the hardcore strategy players?

[adamw]

And of course, we have a "casual" RPG in the works as well. It's lots of fun working on an RPG that isn't so heavy.

[dima]

I'm all for the casual RPGs, but I do love the cartoony graphics, that 'cute' style of anime is best fitted (Zelda, GoldenSun, CronoTrigger) More of realistic graphics, of adult characters, even cartoony, are less appealing to me.

[svero]

I think there's a ton of work to be done in this direction. I'm seriously considering a casualized strategy game. I'd love to do a RPG as well but I think it might be more work than I'm willing to get myself into at the moment.

I think we should be careful though, not to dumb down the games themselves. Most great games are pretty simple on the surface. It's not that we need to take out huge swathes, but I think more about how we represent the game that's there and how it's introduced to the player.

A typical strategy title might throw you full on into the game. Suddenly you have all these resources to manage and units to choose from and so on. Can be a little daunting. Maybe a casualized game would introduce those elements much more gradually. I think there's probably some level of simplification to be done, but I also think we could go a long way by properly inclining the learning curve and choosing carefully how we introduce elements and how the player interacts with those elements.

[dima]

Warcraft 3 single player is very easy to pick up, they introduce the gameplay gradually, and it's a good game :)