This struck me as funny

[svero]

Reading through gamasutra's recap of GDC and came across this with regards to EA paying overtime and their new policy...

"According to an internal email sent company-wide by Rusty Rueff, EA's director of human resources, and reported by the San Jose Mercury News: "The employment environment at EA was built to allow you flexibility as professionals, with the expectation that time on the job could be managed without watching the clock. Unfortunately, labor laws have not kept pace with this spirit of entrepreneurialism, innovation and creativity.""

Haha. Man...

So basically if I'm not willing to go work overtime at EA without extra pay I'm crushing the spirit of entrepreneurialism innovation and creativity? Wow! I had no idea! That's hilarious.

[PoV]

Not to mention you're ruining the American dream.

Yeah, all it takes is 1 crunch project to realize you're being used. Unless you enjoy abuse.

[svero]

It's just so funny that they're trying to equate working long hours for the man with entrepreneurial spirit. haha.

[Coyote]

Well, they can bitch and moan all they want when it was only a one-way promise.

"So I bust my hump, work 70-90 hour weeks for eight months straight, and in the spirit of enterpreneurialism and ownership I get WHAT exactly?"

"Well, you've helped make the owners - the stockholders rich."

"And with my stock OPTIONS, that'll get me what?"

"Well, uh - at the end of the year, assuming the entire rest of the company did well, you could turn them around for nearly $500 profit! How's that! $500 free money."

"And if I worked 20 hours a week at McDonalds for $5.25 an hour during this time, I'd have made how much?"

"Around $3800. But... but... it's Enterpreneurialism! Ownership!"

[Raptisoft]

Meh. Count me in with the people who think that when the gov't makes business decisions for a business, it's fascism.

[Ricardo C]

Meh. Count me in with the people who think that when the gov't makes business decisions for a business, it's fascism.

And what is it when a business pressures workers into spending unhealthy amounts of time at the office with no compensation of any kind?

"Business" is a two-way street. Workers make a business what it is. Surely ensuring they receive fair compensation for their work is not fascism? We're not talking about forcing the stockholders to surrender half their profits to the workers or other radical measures, just about actually paying them for the hours they worked.

[Anthony Flack]

I particularly like the way they described their pay packages as "creative".

[Raptisoft]

And what is it when a business pressures workers into spending unhealthy amounts of time at the office with no compensation of any kind?

Time to get a new job?

[svero]

I was tempted to weigh in on the whole govt control question, but it breaks my own rule about endless political discussion on the forum. Lets keep the thread restricted to EA's absolutely hilarious use of language.

[Applewood]

I'm afraid I'm with Raptisoft.

Long hours comes with the territory. Super long hours and no sympathy from your boss ? Go moan and ask for a raise. If you don't get one, find a new job where you're more valued. If you can't get a new job, get over it or get better skilled.

I don't have much sympathy for EA (they made me redundant by proxy once) but this has sod all to do with the government. EA are stuck with their existing business models, but the employees are free to leave at any point.

I rather suspect that most don't leave and put up with the hours because long hours are at every company but EA wages aren't. I'm struggling real hard to feel sorry for em, bless.

[Bmc]

I rather suspect that most don't leave and put up with the hours because long hours are at every company but EA wages aren't. I'm struggling real hard to feel sorry for em, bless.

When you consider the amount of hours they put in compared to their salaries they might as well be working at McDonalds and making games on the side.

[Cartman]

I saw an article in the Sunday Seattle paper about different work ethics based on age groups. They were talking about two local companies, one that had older employees that didn't mind not being paid overtime, wore dress shirts and ties everywhere they went, but knew that if they worked hard they had a job for life.

The other group worked for a startup. Young people out of college. Most of these employees refused to work overtime, wanted lots of perks, expected raises every six months, and never seemed to satisfied.

One young lady who was a nurse for a hospital talked about how her co workers didn't like it when she took a sick day. The woman believe it was her right to use her sick days any way she wanted, however her coworkers believed you should only use them in the most dire need.

[Raptisoft]

When you consider the amount of hours they put in compared to their salaries they might as well be working at McDonalds and making games on the side.

So, do they not do that because they're deranged? It'd be a lot easier, are they self destructive?

I don't really want deranged, self-destructive people spitting on my hamburgers, tho.

[punchey]

Crush the bourgeoise establishment! Power to the proletariat! All means of the production of games should be in the hands of the collective, not in the private hands of the Capitalist pig-dog! Let's give "the Man" what he deserves!

Uh, wait. You indie developers sometimes hire out art, music, etc, right? And usually it's just to get the job done and you agree to the price of getting it done, right? Do you pay overtime when it turns out the music, physics, etc, take longer to write than expected? Oops! Looks like YOU'RE "The Man", you bourgeoise pig-dog! :)

[Greg Squire]

This all reminds me of a couple of "Despair" posters: :D

http://www.despair.com/achievement.html
http://www.despair.com/sacrifice.html

[punchey]

Lets keep the thread restricted to EA's absolutely hilarious use of language.

I don't think it's hilarious. For it to be hilarious, it would have to somehow be exaggerated, and it's not. This kind of regulation does, indeed, erect barriers to budding entrepreneurs. Just stop and think for a second if you found yourself having to bring on an employee for your next project. You'd probably be reluctant to do that since that would entail cutting through a mountain of red tape, complying with volumes of regulations, etc. And without that extra help on the project, your business would be stunted in its growth.

On the flip side, cut OUt the red tape, and greatly reduce the regulatory burden, and suddenly your business is free to adapt, change, and do what is best for your type of business.

Another present example would be how California's new over-time regulations have put an end to flexible work hours for many workers in that state. Many such workers aren't too happy about it because it's actually taken AWAY flexibility they once had. And it hurt the businesses too because that's one less pirk they can offer, and it's less flexibility for them to their employee's time.

And as Raptisoft pointed out. If the terms of employment are so unreasonable, then only unreasonable people will keep those jobs. And if they're unreasonable themselves, what are they complaining about? Anybody's free to leave and go indy, after all. Isn't that why we're here? Would any of you care to go back?

[Ricardo C]

Long hours comes with the territory. Super long hours and no sympathy from your boss ? Go moan and ask for a raise. If you don't get one, find a new job where you're more valued. If you can't get a new job, get over it or get better skilled.

I'd love to know whart magical land you live in where a new job is waiting for you if you quit your current one, and where improving your job/salary is simply a matter of "getting better skilled".


And as Raptisoft pointed out. If the terms of employment are so unreasonable, then only unreasonable people will keep those jobs. And if they're unreasonable themselves, what are they complaining about? Anybody's free to leave and go indy, after all. Isn't that why we're here? Would any of you care to go back?

Sometimes, you don't have a choice. Sometimes, you have rent to pay, a family to feed (not necessarily children, either), and/or school to pay for. "Going indie" at the drop of a hat is not an option for most people, and EA knows it.

[punchey]

Sometimes, you don't have a choice.

Of course you have a choice! Yes, in the most extreme case (which is very unrealistic), you may have to go without food, shelter, etc. But you don't have a right to those things. You only have a right to pursue them. And to pursue them through mutually agreeable terms. And you don't have a right to demand that EA provide you with those things because they have rights too.

They shouldn't be forced to agree to your terms any more than you shouldn't have a gun pressed to your head to force you to agree to their terms. How are "they" any worse for their free choice than you are for yours? Is it becuase they have the money and you don't? Where is the moral sanction to force them to pay you as you would like? And if you have one, why do they not also have the moral sanction to force you to work as they would like?

It is a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

[Applewood]

I'd love to know whart magical land you live in where a new job is waiting for you if you quit your current one, and where improving your job/salary is simply a matter of "getting better skilled".
It's right here on the Isle of Wight and it is a pretty nice place to live. It started out in Nottingham where I began my programming career over 20 years ago. I've had pay rises every time I changed jobs as I had more to offer each time through getting better skilled. This happens throughout the mainstream gaming industry for all those with talent. Those without it need to take the "get over it" option!

I might add that throughout most of that time I had a wife, a child and a dog to feed, always a relatively large mortgage to pay for and the usual number of personal crises I'm sure we all suffer with from time to time. That's why I knuckled down and tried to make something of myself. I only partly succeeded financially - I've been working for "the man" right up until last week when I set up my own company and became "the man".

I'll try not to abuse my new employees and the main thing I'll do in that regard is make sure the profits come in so I can afford to pay them well. That may mean they have to occasionally go the extra mile to meet a deadline and I'll shed not one tear when I ask them to come in on the weekends!

[Screwball]

It is a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Dude, If I have cake I want to eat it !! WTF is the point of having cake if you can't eat it !!

I hate that saying so much !! That and when people say "Lost something ? It's always in the last place you look." Of course it is in the last place you look, I am not going to spend an extra half an hour looking for something I have already found !!

Anyways, better calm down now :-P.

[Rebrehc's Industries]

Another present example would be how California's new over-time regulations have put an end to flexible work hours for many workers in that state.

I worked in California for a company based in Texas. They didn't believe in that California law, so they just ignored it. When the company finally laid a bunch of us slaves off after making us work 70 hours a week in a horrible economy with no chance of switching jobs, I took them to the California labor board who assured me that I would win without effort. I thought I had the last laugh until the company declared bankruptcy. They still owe me over $40K.

[Vorax]

Meh. Count me in with the people who think that when the gov't makes business decisions for a business, it's fascism.

Hungh?

Since the labor laws were put in place by the people to protect the people I call it democracy...but if you like, you could go work in a third world country sweat shop where there is little or no democracy, and there for labor laws, for $1.50 a day, if that's your thing ;)

Sorry, but if EA wants to break labor laws, they should setup in Cuba, China or a third world country where they don't have these kinds of human rights/quality of life concerns.

[Raptisoft]

Since the labor laws were put in place by the people to protect the people I call it democracy

Hm... state with a controlling interest in private business is, I believe, the very definition of fascism. Making an emotional appeal won't change that.

[svero]

Well I guess I was too subtle when I specifically stated that I DIDNT want a long political debate on the forum. These things can't be won. It's so tempting to respond to these posts because so many of them are really REALLY dumb, but that's the nature of these sorts of discussions. The make the blood boil. Nothing I would write could be very kind. That's why...