Life span of a Indie game

[RedKnight]

I've been poundering on this one.

How do you calculate a lifespan of a game anyway?
Does a game with 1 year development time have a longer lifespan then one with a shorter development time (say 3 month?)

[Mark Fassett]

There is less correlation between the time a game takes to make and how long it is a viable product, than there is between who makes the game and the lifespan of the product. Besides - the lifespan of a game is really determined by the person who is selling it and how long they want to support it.

[BantamCityGames]

Besides - the lifespan of a game is really determined by the person who is selling it and how long they want to support it.

Yup... if the lifespan of an indie game was over when it stopped selling copies, ToW would have had a VERY VERY short lifespan, but it was my first game and I intend to support it (and eventually update it) for as long as my business is still kickin.

[Fry Crayola]

If it's a decent game, even when virtually obsolete you could still be selling it as some sort of a classic or part of a bundle.

Really, a game would be dead when there is absolutely no reason at all to buy the game when you could buy other games that do the same thing, much better.

As a freebie, it can make a nice extra incentive for more recent games. Buy one, get this free!

[gpetersz]

And don't forget evergreens. Solitaires, coloring books.

[MrPhil]

Two of The powers of Indie Development
- Your shelf space is inexpensive and therefore you can keep all your titles on it with little expenses.
- A product's development and improve doesn't have to stop just because it has been "shipped" or gone "Gold"

These two things mean a title can continually be improved, marketed and sold. Therefore the life of an Indie title is only limited by you.

There are always a handful of people out there that haven’t seen your game yet.

[Winterwolf]

I personally would say that an Indie game could go on for about 5-6 years, it would really depend on you marketing it. Of course, after 5-6 years, the market would get exhausted, and even though there would remain some customers who haven't played the game, the cost of supporting, marketing the game would outweigh the revenue that you receive from it.

[James C. Smith]

We made Swarm (http://www.reflexive.com/index.php?CID=4381&PAGE=game_detail&AID=30) 7 years ago and it still sells 100 copies per month not counting sales in other companies’ portals. That’s the thing that is so great about owning your own game and having a distribution channel you control. A retail games gets to stay on the shelves for 6 month (if you are lucky). A downloadable game can sell on your website forever. I don‘t think the development time is related to the “shelf life” but here is some development info on Swarm in case you are interested. Swarm was made in about 3 months by 4 guys. It was our first game so we spend a lot of time on basics like how to do alpha blending or make Direct Sounds work. It is a simple space sooter that was based on Crystal Quest but look more like a modern Asteroids.

[lakibuk]

Of course, after 5-6 years, the market would get exhausted..
What does this mean? That everyone interested in games has seen it? I doubt that with millions and millions of people in the internet.

[Winterwolf]

What does this mean? That everyone interested in games has seen it? I doubt that with millions and millions of people in the internet.

We're not talking about the millions of people on the net per se. We're more intersetd in the select few (maybe 100,000's) that are avid indie game fans or just gamers WILLING to buy indie games over AAA games.

Now, don't take what I said as a hard and fast statement. It would ofcourse depend greatly on the type of game, and user's tastes after 5-6 years.

[James C. Smith]

Don’t forget that there are new potential customers entering the market every day. Many of today’s customers never saw that games that were popular 5 years ago.

[milieu]

Once a game is stable, and needs little or no maintenance, it should remain available until it will literally not run on the typical PC. Why not? It's not costing you anything any more. Might as well keep it out there, even if it just picks up a sale once in a blue moon.

These days, it's hard to say how long that will be. You can still run Windows 95 games, and occasionally DOS games on Windows XP. I don't own a Mac, but I understand that it has some capability to run pre-OSX software.

At a guess...5-10 years, depending on the game genre. A lot of strategy games don't need top of the line graphics...I still play Diplomacy (the 1984 version) on my latest computer.

[ibsta]

Like James pointed out, gamers five years from now probably wouldn't have even heard about the hit indie games that are racking big bucks today. So, in theory, it would be possible to market those old games to the new market. The cycle would then continue in the same way it left off. Nice theory, eh. I call it the Theory of the Perpetuality Of Indie Games.

[MrPhil]

Love the name of that power ibsta! I'll be quoting you in future discussions.

[kevryan]

Not directly on topic, but when I was in the store the other day I saw a game that I did 11 years ago in a bundle pack with a few other games. Some games can last for a very long time and others can disappear very quickly. And I don't think it has anything to do with the development budget - more to do with the type of game and what it's selling point is.

[Phil Steinmeyer]

I can't speak to indie/casual, but for retail games, it all depends on genre, quality, and other factors. Many games are in and out of the retail channel in 2 months. Railroad Tycoon 2 came out in '98, and was available more or less continuously as a stand-alone product at one level or another until '03, and is still available as a bundled two-fer. It was selling 1000+ copies a month as late as '02, in North America alone.

[goodsol]

I'll tell you what the life span of an indie game is when my 9+ year old game dies :)

[MrPhil]

You beat me to the punch Tom but I just wanted to drop your comment from the 10,000 copies sold - is it doable?
(http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=2250) thread in.

I have not seen a drop off with time in game sales. In general the opposite occurs, sales of a game increase with time. At the beginning, hardly anybody has downloaded it and there's no installed base of trial users. Over time, the base increases and sales increase.

[Promaginy]

I'll tell you what the life span of an indie game is when my 9+ year old game dies :)

But Good Solitaire is not really a single game is it? It is being updated all of the time with new versions of Solitaire, etc. Your model is something that others have been thinking about as it is obviously quite successful.

I think the question needs to be clarified - if you release a game and don't add anything new in terms of gameplay, how long could it last?

[JPGinLA]

I think the question needs to be clarified - if you release a game and don't add anything new in terms of gameplay, how long could it last?

IMHO, that strategy is absolutely a mistake so why even consider it! The single best advantage to digital delivery of shareware is the interaction and feedback from customers. Use that to your advantage!

Why on earth wouldn't you want to continually improve and add to a good game?

Maybe, after every single person with a computer has tried your game, then maybe, you'd want to stop improving it - even then, until every one of them purchased your game I think you should continue the revision/improvement process.

Tom's successful model is staring you plain in the face as are other identical strategies with dissimilar games! There's no need to re-create the wheel.

-JPG

Edited to fix wordiness.

[Promaginy]

IMHO, that strategy is absolutely a mistake so why even consider it! The single best advantage to digital delivery of shareware is the interaction and feedback from customers. Use that to your advantage!

Why on earth wouldn't you want to continually improve and add to a good game?

Because a developer wants to go onto something new. Some people would rather create new games than continually update an existing one. Tom's model is a successs, but so are others (creating multiple games, becoming a distributor, etc).

I just think it is'nt helpful to answer the original question without asking whether he plans on continually updating his game. The answer really depends on what kind of indie company he wants to create.

[MrPhil]

I don't anyone is suggesting you have to become a slave to the game. The point is that as an Indie you have the advantage of putting in a little TLC now and again to keep it dusted-off. Starting new projects is completely compatible with that kind of strategy.

If you truly want to make games, put them out the door, wash you hands of it, and start a new game then you’d probably do better in the traditional publisher model. But if you take a closer look few studios are doing that any more, they all put time and effort into building a community around their game, so maybe its just a pipe dream.

[Draginol]

The TYPE of game really makes a big difference.

My recommendation is to stick to game types that aren't technology sensitive. For instance, I'd never make a first person shooter. I much prefer strategy games because they tend to age well.

We still make 6 figure annual revenue from Galactic Civilizations just off our electronic commerce server and that game was released at the start of 2003 (over two years ago).

[VladR]

The TYPE of game really makes a big difference.

My recommendation is to stick to game types that aren't technology sensitive. For instance, I'd never make a first person shooter. I much prefer strategy games because they tend to age well.Well, GalCiv may not be complicated from graphics standpoint, but in Credits section I counted about 9 programmers and about 27 people in total. I don`t know if they worked throughout whole production, but if so, you could have a AAA graphics shader engine with so many programmers, that`s for sure. Another issue is who`d pay for fps online.
But it seems, like GalCiv was an enormous task. I haven`t played the game, just glanced at screenshots and manual, but it seems pretty complicated to program such thing and to balance the gameplay.

We still make 6 figure annual revenue from Galactic Civilizations just off our electronic commerce server and that game was released at the start of 2003 (over two years ago).Yeah, but there were about 27 people involved in production of the game, so if they all take some share of sales, it seems it isn`t very much. Though, a 6-figure number could be anything between 100k-999k, so if it`s in higher part, even with 27 people, it might be interesting. If it keeps you afloat and you can keep working on your next game just from sales of the game, then it`s fantastic.

Anyway, how did you manage to finance the development of GalCiv ? Just curious. Out of sales of some other software (that`s on StarDock`s webpage) ? Bank Loan / Mortgage / Investors ?
Or did at least half of the people work on this because of royalties ?

[Dan MacDonald]

@VladR:

It turns out stardock is actually a pretty successful company with some other products besides games that helped finance GalCiv's development. Check out the wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardock) for more details.

[VladR]

It turns out stardock is actually a pretty successful company with some other products besides games that helped finance GalCiv's development. Check out the wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stardock) for more details.Thanks for the link. That explains my whole answer ! I didn`t know TotalGaming.net belongs to them and that they`re present so long in market.
You know, I just thought it`s an indie game, but indie group of 27 people ? That seemed strange and improbable.

[Sirrus]

But Good Solitaire is not really a single game is it? It is being updated all of the time with new versions of Solitaire, etc. Your model is something that others have been thinking about as it is obviously quite successful.

I think the question needs to be clarified - if you release a game and don't add anything new in terms of gameplay, how long could it last?

Dope Farmer has been around for two years, no updates, and selling just as well as it did when it came out. We are about to release an update, but it shows that games can last...

[svero]

Aargon has been around for 5-6 years now with 1 major update and it was still my best seller last year.

- S

[Promaginy]

Aargon has been around for 5-6 years now with 1 major update and it was still my best seller last year.

Dope Farmer has been around for two years, no updates, and selling just as well as it did when it came out. We are about to release an update, but it shows that games can last...

That is very impressive! Any sense of what keeps these games selling? Besides good gameplay of course!

[Promaginy]

You know, I just thought it`s an indie game, but indie group of 27 people? That seemed strange and improbable.

IMO, determining who is an indie and who isn't by size of operation is the wrong. Just because a company is successful and grows, they can't be an Indie according to your statement.

Being an Indie is about the control of the product. Size has nothing to do with it. I hope to be one half as successful as Stardock.

[ggambett]

That is very impressive! Any sense of what keeps these games selling? Besides good gameplay of course!
Probably good gameplay and not competing in the buzzwords category (shaders et al)

[KNau]

I think it has to do with simply keeping the game available to the public. In retail and even portal business now you make your sales in the first 3 to 6 months and then you fall off the radar. But if you as a developer keep the game on your site and keep drawing traffic, you're going to make sales.

I haven't had the benefit of a long games history yet but my texture collection (Urban Jungle) has been selling consistently on TurboSquid.com for over 4 years now - and that's a very small market.

[svero]

Well I think Aargon is due for an update. But if I had to guess I'd say that it's not a game that relies heavily on wow factor. It delivers the concept solidly and for the kind of people that enjoy Aargon, it doesn't need to match the day's graphics. So it wears well with time. It's all about the puzzle.

That being said... A Snake's Life still sells fairly well for me and it's been around a few years. I've never really noticed any significant dropoff for any of my games. The way the sell the 3rd month is usually how they sell forever.

[VladR]

IMO, determining who is an indie and who isn't by size of operation is the wrong. Just because a company is successful and grows, they can't be an Indie according to your statement.No it doesn`t have anything with growth. I just said it`s improbable, i.e. it does happen but very rarely (AFAIK). Besides, indie, as I understand it, is a small group of people somewhere in the apartment (definition from the 80`s-90`s ?).
As soon as they go out of home and pay for some office space with official company name, they`re a company, not an indie. A small one, but company nontheless.
I too am indie. We are a group of 3 people but still in wife`s apartment. As soon as we hire somebody else and go into some office space, we lost the indie status. We`re a small company then. Without supervision from a publisher dictating what and how to do on one hand, but also financially unstable on the other hand.

At least that`s how I understand it (or as it is usually presented on net). Though I could be wrong.

[Jim Buck]

The "classical" definition of indie is "no funding from an outside source". It has nothing to do with the location (apartment vs. office). When you have no funding from an outside source, you have not relinquised control and are ind(i)e-pendent to develop what you want, when you want, and how you want.

[Omega]

1) This web site is called "IndieGamer.com"
2) Forums called "Indie Developer Discussion Boards" exist on this web site
3) An "Indie Basics" section exists on these forums
4) A thread with words "Life span of an Indie game" in the title exists in this section
5) A post at the end of this thread discusses "Indie"

So, here we are, 5 levels deep into "indie ", as you are reading this.

So it is funny to me, after all of this, that we are just trying to find out exactly what an indie is. LOL!