asking for email only to download demos

[Jack Norton]

Some sites ask for email just to download a demo. Isn't this a bit too "intrusive"? I mean, is ok to use all means to get more subscribers, but asking the email just to play the free demo isn't too much?
I am evaluating this possibility for my site but still I think that's too much to ask to potential customers... or am I wrong? :)

[Linusson]

I think a lot of people would either leave your site or enter a false email address. I know I would. There is so many other games out there to choose from.

[Phil Newton]

Yep, if I ever see this I simply leave. It's practically shooting yourself in the foot, as it turns away people who wanted to download your demo.

[Jack Norton]

Yes that's what I think too. But seeing a big portal like BFG using that system made me thinking about it... :)

[Savant]

I find it fairly intrusive. After all, I'm doing you the favor by downloading your demo with the possibility of buying your game. Why make me jump through a hoop to do that? Any barrier to my money entering your pocket should be removed.

[Indiepath]

Why not just ask it politely when the download starts.

Put there "if you want to bla bla bla... please feel free to subscribe to our newsletter". That way you don't force anyone to use it... but can show it each time the download starts.

[Diodor Bitan]

Well, you can be creative: offer the demo download without asking for e-mail, then offer to send a temporary key that opens the full version by e-mail (and mention what is your promotions policy if the email is given).

But I imagine an e-mail is less valuable to the average indie than to the big portal who boasts a new game every day.

[Nonz]

In these days of overwhelming SPAM a lot of people are becoming more and more paranoid about handing out their email address.

I go with the voluntary submission... if you want to recieve our newsletter or news on new releases then blah blah blah...

Nonz.

[Michael Flad]

I guess with a bit creativity there might be some ways to give users a free demo like they expect but give them a little more if they tell you their mail address?
What about giving users an extended trial period, not only if they ask but offer it quite direct after the demo expired?
Or maybe unlock a small extended feature?
Or tell them they can secure a smaller price (say 20%) if they register their demodownload *NOW* and buy the game, say, within 2 or 4 weeks?

Michael

[cliffski]

just because a portal does it doesnt mean its not stupid. There is some stupid company that bundles starforce copy protection in the demo of its driving game. it installs copy-protection drivers on your pc...
in a demo...
Some companies are just idiots. Don't copy them.:D

[James C. Smith]

It seems like a really bad idea to me. I would never do it. But some successful people swear by it. I think any e-mail address collection must be voluntary to be useful. Otherwise it just collects fake address and turns people away from your site/demo.

[Ryan Clark]

I think that, in the short-run, it might be a good idea. But in the long run I imagine that the number of potentially loyal customers you'll lose will cost you more.

I wouldn't download from a site that forced me to provide an email address, unless I was desperate. And even then, it would just be my "junk mail" address.

[arcadetown]

I agree it's intrusive and not convenient for users and probably woudn't do it. Yet somehow BFG makes it work. They've even gone to next level requiring their toolbar install just to play online games.

Would figure end up getting a bunch of bogus email addresses. Don't get how such an email list can even get out with all the aggresive greylisting techniques email systems do now. Wonder how the sites with super huge lists get their email lists out these days. Our list has trouble even though it's double opt-in and constantly weeded out.

[Jim Buck]

You want to remove every obstacle possible between someone coming to your site and someone downloading your demo. The more obstacles, the less people that will download your demo. Having to enter an email address is one of the biggest obstacles possible. So, unless the upside of that is large enough, it's a really bad idea.

[MattInglot]

Handago does this, and it took several months before I realized that it's optional. In the meantime that's at least 20 demos that I never downloaded, and bought competing products by default.

[stay]

In the case of BFG, you can just enter whatever you want for the e-mail address, and move on, since it doesn't actually get used for the download. Of course, this isn't readily apparent.

Regarding long-term impact, I think it's clear that that's the point - to have as large a list of potential customers as possible in the long term, even if you lose a couple of specific sales in the short term. Somehow BFG is still growing and making more and more money over time, so I'm guessing it doesn't hurt them too badly.

Perhaps it's something the typical puzzle game downloader doesn't care about, and we developers are more inclined to dislike the idea than the average casual player.

[Air]

Perhaps it's something the typical puzzle game downloader doesn't care about, and we developers are more inclined to dislike the idea than the average casual player.
Agreed. Most of the more "average" pc users I know (all of whom are frequent online gamers at the portals) seemed to be quite happy at the chance just to use their email for once. They won't even blink an eye when asked. Consequently these same people also have inboxes overrun with spam and mailing list solicitations, heh. One lady in particular was just simply enamored with the idea of being able to get all kinds of stuff, from horoscopes to movie promos, direct to her... and eagarly signed up for just about anything she could.

I think that optional email inquiries are certanly the best option tho, so long as its optionality isn't heavily obscured. It's pretty much the best of both worlds: Plenty of people will still enter email addresses just because you ask, bypassable or not, and these people would probably give good response to email solicitations. Those who would enter fake emails or shop elsewhere will bypass it, and save you the clutter of having emails that go nowhere or will likely be ignored.

That is, I can't think of any other reason to grab emails except to use either as a mailing list or as a user ID for tracking unique users and such (ie custom settings or things like online voting systems). If there's additional value to collecting emails, I'm all ears. :)

- Air

[papillon]

OTOH, a large number of people are so paranoid about emails that when faced with a form that clearly says "Put in your address and I will EMAIL YOU download directions for your free game" they put in fake addresses that bounce when I dutifully try to send to them. Silly people.

[JPGinLA]

I'm glad someone brought this up.

First, be aware that I'm going to respond with my opinion for maximizing the amount of money you can make with your game! That is, I am not responding with an eye toward the most artistic way to be an IG; For me, gaming is a business. A very fun business to be in!

Here's our thinking:

1. What is your plan for the collected addresses? If you don't have a great use for them, then don't bother collecting them and don't continue.
2. How will your prospect react to your request for email addresses?
3. Confirm that you have a good #1.
4. Confirm that you were correct on #2.
5. Execute.
6. Periodically do #3 and #4.

What will you do with the email list?

Whenever we interact with a customer, we must provide more value than they expect and our emails are the same. All purchasers of our games are entitled to free upgrades forever (how long a customer should be entitled to free upgrades might be a good topic on another thread). Obviously, when we have an upgrade, then that's something our customers want to know about (Maybe there's another thread about whether to upgrade games or make sequels). But we don't have an upgrade every month, or even every other month so we need to have a good reason (meaning something valuable for the recipient) to send an email. We spend a lot of time and effort to do that. Sometimes we have a free offer, such as ecards for Valentines Day. Sometimes we have a special sale in our store. Because we sell merchandise too there are more opportunities to have a special. We might announce a contest or start a special topic on our discussion forum. We give away bumper stickers, etc. All the while, we're trying to give information that the reader will find useful and valuable, rather than just saying "Have you registered yet? Please do?" Or, "Try this other game and buy it too."

I'm not saying that you shouldn't tell your customers when you have a good offer available for them in your store (e.g., save $5 when you buy two games) - they want to know that too. I am saying not to beat them over the head with sales pitches and that you should always also include something free which is valuable and usefulfrom your customer's point of view. Maybe strategy info. Maybe free graphics. Whatever is good for your game. Here's something that's good for everyone's game and you can use it next Winter: The holidays are a time when many people get new computers meaning they have to reload and transfer their programs. Why not anticipate this and send an email in November reminding your customers how to transfer your game onto a new computer (and also make it easy for them to get what they need from your web site in order to accomplish this task)? I'm pretty sure all your users would appreciate that message and it might get them to load your game first on their new computer or better yet on their relative's or friend's computer when presents are opened.

At our company, we believe that interaction with our customer is EXTREMELY important. Our email list is one of our most valuable company assets. The email list allows us to communicate with our customers not only about sales, upgrades, new games being published etc., but it also encourages them to tell others about our games, to interact with us by sharing their opinions, ideas, etc. more easily than waiting for them to initiate the dialog. Each time we send our newsletter, we receive hundreds of valuable responses.

What will our user think?

Most previous posters have expressed "I would never give my address." Well, that may or may not be true for your proposed customer. In a poll of registered users here, I'd bet that is the prevailing attitude. However, there is significant research (sorry don't have links handy) to the contrary for consumers, especially Internet consumers. Consumers love to know what's going on, and believe it or not, like to know when a store is having a sale. If you don't believe me, please go outside your Indie Gamer circle and ask if your friends like to get catalogs in the mail or like to get discount coupons? The big Internet retail sites (I don't mean game sites, I mean big retailers) all send Specials and Offers to their customers relentlessly and the recipients, by and large, appreciate it! Just because you don't like it or want it, doesn't mean your opinion is representative. That being said, if you are publishing for a customer base which telnets to their server to retrieve their email, then maybe you shouldn't collect addresses.

We have tested this with our customers using the don't collect method, the optional collect, and the mandatory collect. Our conclusion is that our potential purchasers do not mind giving us their email address. More about this below.

Confirm you have as good message to send out

I don't want to go all motivational and Tony Robbins on you, but there is no question that when we send out valuable, interesting newsletters, even without heavy sales pitches, we see increased purchasing. It is that simple. Do something that is good for your proposed and existing customers and they will do something that is good for you.

Confirm your users don't object

As I said we have tried it a lot of different ways. We are somewhat unique in that we offer telephone support. Also, our customers are not hard-core gamers (see other threads for further proof of this fact!). We are talking with our users everyday and have the opportunity to find out first hand what their experience is like. It is not unusual for us to tell customers over the telephone what address to put into their browser to get to our download page and then literally walk them through the entire process. Our customer do not mind entering their email address as part of that process.

We do not require that the email address be typed twice as confirmation when they enter their email address. We just require something in user@domain.xxx format. We also make it very easy to unsubscribe from our list and we do not shy away from placing our telephone number, email address and snail mail address nearby so they can reach us easily. We do not want any barriers for our customers to get great customer service as soon as they need it.

Execute

We understand and realize that too much email is a valid concern that needs to be balanced (and everyone draws their own line on this), so we don't send email that doesn't contain valuable information for the recipient, we don't send mail to using other people's lists and we would NEVER EVER share, sell, lend, lease, etc. our list with ANYONE!. Our newsletters contain links to unsubscribe easily and also have our complete contact information.

We do however use our customer list to crow about our games, to introduce new games that we publish for others, to share compelling stories, to communicate special offers, etc. Many, many of our customers tell us they look forward to receiving our newsletters and to trying our new games.

Every IG needs to consider the pros and cons for their audience and game. Even if your #1 goal isn't the money that you deserve to earn, then you still must interact with your users to succeed at the goal of providing the highest quality game for them. The only reasonable method of interacting is via email so somehow all IGs need to obtain an email list of players.

As far as creating an obstacle to downloading, there is definitely merit in that position and each IG needs to evaluate this for your game and audience. Better yet is to test various methods and actually get real feedback from your users, not from this forum! For us, we tested several different methods. We spoke to our customers and learned that the typical user who won't download our game because we ask for an email address is not a likely purchaser so little to nothing is lost when they stop and move on.

We also review this every few months to make sure that we still have # 1 and #2 and that mandatory collection makes the most sense.

Sorry for so long - that's my slightly more than 2c.

-JPG

[Jim Buck]

I think getting an email address from a customer is a great way of building up future sales. That's why many people hear speak volumes about having a newsletter.

However, is a person your customer before he even downloads the demo? This is the point at which the OP is considering collecting the email address.

[JPGinLA]

Jim Buck said:

However, is a person your customer before he even downloads the demo? This is the point at which the OP is considering collecting the email address.

I said:
First, be aware that I'm going to respond with my opinion for maximizing the amount of money you can make with your game!

We treat and consider web site visitors users.

-JPG

edit: fixed the quotes.

[DangerCode]

We spoke to our customers and learned that the typical user who won't download our game because we ask for an email address is not a likely purchaser so little to nothing is lost when they stop and move on.

Interesting ... but I'm wondering how you can be confident of this. Didn't a customer have to provide an email address to become a customer so you could ask the customer if they'd become a customer of this system?

[arcadetown]

I wonder how BFG deals with the potential bad emails typed in like bob@aol.com that could cause spam complaints, not to mention possible blacklisting or geylisting issues a bunch of invalid email addresses can cause. Anybody any ideas?

[JPGinLA]

Interesting ... but I'm wondering how you can be confident of this. Didn't a customer have to provide an email address to become a customer so you could ask the customer if they'd become a customer of this system?

Danger, 1. we talk to customers about their entire experience; and 2. there are times when we walk new customers through the process including entering their email address while we have them on the phone for support.

-JPG

[Air]

I concur with JPG. Everything in his larger post above mirrors experiences I've had with friends of family and my parents' business, but was never quite able to put it into such constructive terms. Great post!

A brief recap goes something like this: The more willing someone is to contribute their info to your site, or otherwise do what you ask of them, the more likely that person will be a good customer (basic psychology supports this). And although less related to the topic of email, the other point made is that focusing your business around service and community, or at least creating the perception that you providing a service to a community, is a sure-fire way to gain both extended interest and trust. Relating back to the topic, collecting emails and carefully using them for special promos that the user can feel "befriended" by will consistently bring great results.

But he's also right that it's a money-maximization scheme: its all part of the art of finding "good customers" and catering to their needs/vulnerabilities. Many indies are indies because they aren't interested in catering to that same base of good consumers that almost all big business does already. Indies would like to cater to independent-minded folk like themselves-- people who aren't as interested in promos as they are in the product itself; people who do what they like/want to rather than what's asked of them; people who, unfortunately, don't easily part with their hard-earned cash.

Spinning all this back to the OP: Collecting emails for download is both unneccesary and intrusive by the standards of myself and many others on this forum. Its also good business because it appeals to the psyhology that makes certain people good consumers, and it helps isolate and target those people. But many people are on this forum specifically because they want to do things differently than the established success formulas, and because they themselves are sick of having to plug in emails before they download and whatever other hoops and solicitations standing between them and what they want. So I say don't do it. Be the indie this site is here to help. Cater to people like ourselves, people who expect and appreciate the more subtle liberties of life.

It won't make us rich but it'll make us who we think we should be. And who knows, maybe it'll make the world a better place in some small way. ;)

- Air [waxing ideological philosophical]

[goodsol]

My solution to this problem is a compromise.

I didn't want to require an email address to download because of the drop in downloads that would cause. I also didn't want to not ask for an email because getting email addresses for your list is very important.

My solution is to load a page when the user clicks to download. That page then starts up the download automatically (or it can be started manually with another click if security settings prevent the download from starting).

The page asks for the email address for my newsletter. It also has ordering information.

The email solicitation on the page while the download happens is quite effective. The overwhelming majority of my email signups come from the download pages. I'd probably get more if it were required before the download, but I'm not sure how many more. Some people apparently think the email address is required for the download anyway, even though the solicitation appears after the download starts.

The order links on these download pages also generate a number of orders each day, so it is another way to capture a few more sales.

And finally, the trial version also asks for the email address on day 1 of the trial (which is actually the 2nd day of use since I start the trial at day 0).

The email newsletter is one of the best sales tools I have. Sales always jump when the newsletter goes out (I just sent one out yesterday, text here (http://www.goodsol.com/cgi-bin/news/mail.cgi?flavor=archive&id=20050212120220&list=news), so I woke up this morning with a nice large last 24 hours of sales.

The most important thing about newsletters is to have content other than just trying to sell people something. Lots of good content gets your newsletter read.

[James C. Smith]

That page then starts up the download ...[and]...asks for the email address for my newsletter.

That is almost exactly how it works at Reflexive.com and probably many other game sites.