Talent

[Sirrus]

Reading through the Roll Call I am very impressed to see so much commericial talent coming from here. Many of you have worked on some great projects and had good success in the industry.

My question now is why do not enough of us collaborate on some serious endevours ;)


Alex
weaponstudios.com
dopefarmer.com
injoygames.com

[shoecake]

collaboration is a good thing if you have the team work skills and need to fuse your skills together.

However, the reason why I've moved away from commercial games is I enjoy independence of not having other developers relying on me (or me on them.) I like sharing my time with many different things from programming to artwork to marketing. Sticking to tighter time schedules is less risk. Working with developers who are located in different cities (or countries) has also been quite problematic at times. Above all, I love the way all the money that comes in belongs to me, hehe :p

I wouldn't consider any future team work myself unless it was with a small group located close together so we could have plenty of business meetings in the pub :)

I know not all Indie developers are focused on solo development but I find it works for me.

Cheers,

Paul

[Mark Fassett]

I never understand why the question "My question now is why do not enough of us collaborate on some serious endevours" comes up in a forum devoted to indie development. It always leads me to believe that the person asking the question has a desire to be "bigger" than indie, that they think there is something noble about people joinging together to create some big game that's going to take the world by storm and catapult the developers into the wonderful world of AAA retail game development. People put groups together like this in private, not on a forum.

[svero]

My view of being an indie has always had to do with the company's independence from outside pressure. Usually I would take that to mean financial independence. I don't think of indies as making games that are not AAA or are AAA etc... or really having much to do with the size of the company.

[tentons]

...that they think there is something noble about people joinging together to create some big game that's going to take the world by storm and catapult the developers into the wonderful world of AAA retail game development.

That's kind of assuming a lot, isn't it?

I mean, that you expect that just because people work in a group their goal is to get a game published at retail? I work with an artist (and am not against the team getting bigger with success) but have no desire to publish at retail. That's why I'm an indie.

[Mark Fassett]

Maybe my perception of posts like this comes from too many days of reading the same kind of stuff on gamedev.net. I have never seen any public "why don't we work together" posts result in anything. I don't expect that, because people work in a group, they have a desire to be retail developers. I said, perhaps not clearly, that it was my perception of the motivation behind this type of post. It may not even be a conscious motivation.

Svero: My opinion of AAA retail development right now is a bit off, mostly because of one of the biggest "indies" - they made a game that doesn't run decently on an FX 5900 at any higher resolution than 800x600, gets less than 30fps, the people in the game STILL HAVE POINTY HEADS, and it costs $55. I am so glad a friend gave me a copy, and I didn't waste my money.

I agree - the size of the indie does not make them any less indie. The comment was aimed more at the retail mindset.

[Sirrus]

I think that there is a misunderstanding as to my point.

I am not advocating collaboration on developing a game...obviously the reason we are independant game developers is because we want to be independant.
This is not GameDev.net - I have enough experience to squelch unrealistic notions of developing a AAA game with a scattered team.

My clockwork is thinking about expansion in an independant - downloadable - sense. I'm thinking in two areas - mergers and publishing.

The pool of talent we have here is unprecedented in the online world (with respect to ASP and the like) and I would like to see the companies think in a broader sense to bring their products to market.

For one, I think it is wonderful to see the new Services forum listing. This will no doubt become a great place to gather contacts and form integrated business relations. I would like to see more of this. Downloadable marketing firms forming strong bonds with developers. Having a good company to outsource art assets and voice work.
My post is pertaining purely to forming strong business links - not assembling teams or developing non-profit communities.

We, as independants, have a huge opportunity to take advantage of the online and lower end world of gaming. I would like to see more mergers (lower end - not GH and Real) and a greater use of the valuable resources many independant companies are providing.

Alex
weaponstudios.com
dopefarmer.com
injoygames.com

[Coyote]

My question now is why do not enough of us collaborate on some serious endevours
What? We're not currently engaged in serious endeavors? :)

You think we can get a lot of egos with a long list of professional credits to actually join together in a common vision?

Actually, I'm seeing some cool stuff coming out of the "Game In a Day" competitions (not that they are really competing) over at GarageGames. And I've been able to get some help from some old pros and talented beginners with my own project. And I expect I'll have the chance to return the favors a few times. In my mind, that's really the "indie" way to collaborate - instead of banding together as a top-heavy team, we instead act sort of as contractors - exchanging use of our talents & expertise where needed to create games more EFFICIENTLY.

On top of that, look at the free (or very cheap) exchange of code, ideas, advice, and resources that are taking place within the indie community. Granted, it's a system that can be abused, and for which there are a lot more consumers than providers. But it thrills me to see it happening - to see indies helping out other indies or just contributing free or low-cost resources to benefit their community.

Ultimately, though, I've worked on some "great," million-selling titles in the past. I'm very proud of them, and have some fond (and not-so-fond) memories from that time in my life. I could probably, if I pushed hard enough (and was willing to accept the loss in my standard of living), go back to it and be part of that again... making other people's games, contributing my little bit to making some publisher rich with the next AAA title. But that's not my big motivating factor anymore. I've been there, done, that, got a LOT of T-Shirts.

Instead of just being a 'little brother' imitation of the inefficient ways big business does it, I'm a bit more excited about participating in the evolution of alternative ways of collaboration that is happening in the indie gaming scene. We'll see what happens going forward.

[Sirrus]

"In my mind, that's really the "indie" way to collaborate - instead of banding together as a top-heavy team, we instead act sort of as contractors - exchanging use of our talents & expertise where needed to create games more EFFICIENTLY."

...Did you read my second post? ;)

[GameStudioD]

* This very forum is a good example. People are sharing their experiences and answering questions. A few days after the Dexterity forums close was announced, the IndieGamer forums were up and running.

* There is a lot of link exchanges that you see on developer's websites.

* Some developers post other developer's games on their sites (affiliate links).

* The services board here has posts of people that offer services and they offered them before that board.

* Somebody made an indie wiki site just recently.

* Indie 'pizza nights' are often announced in the indie life board.

etc, etc, etc

There is a lot of collaboration and networking going on. Some of it just isnt obvious or is behind the scenes.

[Nemesis]

"In my mind, that's really the "indie" way to collaborate - instead of banding together as a top-heavy team, we instead act sort of as contractors - exchanging use of our talents & expertise where needed to create games more EFFICIENTLY."

...Did you read my second post? ;)
I think this sort of contractor interaction was already happening on Dex and now on this forum, especially when there are referrals. For example, A advertises the, say artistic, talent of B with the result of C and D contacting B to get some art resources done for their own games.

[KNau]

The problem with collaborations is that one person has to be in charge in order for anything to get done. As anyone who has worked in a disorganized studio can attest - "design by committee" just doesn't work. Besides, many of us left mainstream development because we got sick of taking orders from committees and idiots.

[Karukef]

Being an indie should mean one thing and one thing only: That every individual is working on the project of his choice, contributing in the way he wants towards a goal that he desires. Whether this is done by a lone wolf or three people who happen to share the same tastes and ambitions is irrelevant.

So yes, who do I never see a post where two indies announce a game they made together? Are all indies so extremely individual that no-one has the same tastes or are everyone on this forum just too egocentric to allow any interference with their god-like process of development???

Hehe, I'm just kidding with you though, but you see my point? ;)

The amount of failed wannabe gamedev teams seem to have created an aversion towards collaborating that perhaps goes a bit too far. I don't know, all I know is that I can't wait until I find the person that is going to collaborate with me. :)

[Mark Fassett]

I did have a few people help in the creation of Derelict, but it's mostly my "vision" such as it is. For me, it's not failed gamedev projects that created an aversion to having partners in crime - it's the desire to be the master of my own ship. I think, when you meet a "lone wolf" what you are meeting someone how typically, doesn't mind help, but wants to make all the big decisions. They want to be responsible for the creation, whatever the result. Not an aversion to groups at all - just a need not have to answer to anyone other than themselves. Of course, I'm describing myself. I could be dead wrong as to why others seperate themselves from the world :)