Which E-Commerce service should I use?

[Mike Boeh]

It seems like there is a new thread about this every week, so I decided to make a sticky post about it.

Generally, the threads go something like this:

1. A developer asks, "Which E-Commerce service should I use?"
2. Someone will reply, "BMT Micro"
3. Then someone else will reply, "Plimus"
4. Then a small discussion about the various pros and cons of each will be discussed, perhaps throwing in names like Regnow and SWREG too.

Most developers who post here use Plimus or BMT Micro, and swear by them. Personally, I use BMT, and couldn't be happier- but the same can be said for the people who use Plimus too. Anyway, each service is different, and basically comes down to which service is right for you. There is a very helpful site which displays a nice feature comparison chart, along with pricing:
http://www.regshare.com

Hope that helps! :-)

[george]

http://www.softwaremarketingresource.com/registrationservices.html

a list of services, comparison websites, and other info.

[ggambett]

The sticky thread is a great idea. But I guess this thread belongs to Indie Basics.

[Mike Boeh]

Indeed it does, moved :)

[Gnatinator]

Here (http://www.blackcatsystems.com/regservices/) is another comparison chart.

[ErikH2000]

A person looking at all of the options should consider if they want to support a company (Digital River) that has bought out the majority of its competitors. Most of the companies offering software registration services are now owned by DR. I won't go into a self-righteous rant about it, but if you didn't know, then you really should. Here's an article: Digital River's Destructive Acquisition Strategy (http://www.webpronews.com/ebusiness/ebusinessnews/wpn-45-20040105DigitalRiversDestructiveAcquisitionStrateg y.html)

-Erik

[Mark Sheeky]

That article is a bit out of date, my provider ShareIt has been bought out since! There are pro's and con's to buy outs. I haven't noticed any negative effects on ShareIt and recommend them as a payment provider, particularly for Europeans because the bank transfer charges are low.

Mark

[keethrus]

I always suggest Charge.com (http://Charge.com).

You get a super easy and quick PHP API for processing credit card orders. You just set some variables, call a function in your PHP file, and it does the transaction for you. It'll tell you whether it went through successfully or if it suspects fraud. You can also use a nice online page to manually make charges manually or give refunds.

They can also process checks over the internet, integrate into some free shopping cart systems, and the API can calculate taxes and shipping charges for you too. You don't have to have a merchant account and setup is free.

Charge.com will cost you $40/month plus 25 cents and 2.39% of each transaction. Minus the $40/month, you'll get $19.27 out of every $20 you sell, which means you keep more of your money.

I personally will roll my own check out system right on my domain using charge.com because it looks more professional, I have complete control, and I get more money per purchase.

Just wanted to mention charge.com because I've found it to be such a great deal in doing e-commerce systems for other commercial websites.

- Jeremiah

[Zatt]

I have made little freeware games and one popular freeware game... I was thinking paypal, but I am scared to start it.

What if I somehow get 2000 orders. That is lot of work to send serial number for the game...

Is there anyway to make everything automatic?
And is it illegal to sell games without company?

I mean international selling...

[soniCron]

What if I somehow get 2000 orders. That is lot of work to send serial number for the game... Well, unless you've reinvented sliced bread, you'll have plenty of time to switch your method of payment before you get 2,000 orders. Don't worry about it. You should worry if it's effective enough as a payment method or not.

[mahlzeit]

You can automate selling through PayPal with their IPN (Instant Payment Notification) system.

And is it illegal to sell games without company? I mean international selling...
Probably not, as long as you don't "forget" to pay your taxes. If you are a minor, you probably aren't allowed to sign contracts, so keep that in mind. Other than that, give your local government or chamber of commerce a call. They can tell you all you need to know.

[Zatt]

OK.. Thanks for your help mahlzeit...

[Anatoly]

Hello everybody...
I'm a freeware game developer, but I want to venture in a shareware market...
BMT micro looks good, but does anyone know if it will provide all the papers to fill out my taxes?

[Sharpfish]

I am signed up with BMT micro as it seemed to offer the best terms for my needs.. even though I haven't released anything yet ;)

I have heard of ShareIt and even checked it out a couple of times but what are the real options for UK developers who want to receive payments in GBP and not pay massive USD to GBP conversion charges.

I think this thread would be more usefull if we had general guidelines for developers from DIFFERENT parts of the world instead of treating everyone as US based.

U.S : dollars
U.K : pounds
EUR: euros

Most other places can easily fall under the US providers but we have to jump through so many hoops in the U.K with VAT and Conversions (and low $/£ ratio at the moment).

thanks

[Kestral]

This thread is GREAT and I am very glad that you bumped it :)

[paulhuxt]

I would also add Trymedia's ActiveMark:
(handles DRM security, payment & distribution)

http://www.trymedia.com

White papers can be found here:
http://www.trymedia.com/services/services_whitepapers.shtml

[GhostRik]

GoDaddy.com's Economy hosting package looks pretty good for $3.95 a month:

5GB storage
250GB transfer
500 email accounts
Windows or Linux

99.9% uptime guarantee.

http://tinyurl.com/asdld

Does it look like there's a catch?

[soniCron]

Does it look like there's a catch? Yes. It sucks. It may be "up" all the time, but it's slow as hell. I'm using that for TIGRS (http://www.tigrs.org/) right now, but only until TIGRS is more popular. As soon as version 2 is released, I suspect many more than just a handful of developers will use it, and there will be a real need to switch to a real server. Also, the SQL is very spotty and limited. Unless you're hosting family photos, don't go with Go Daddy's hosting. It sucks.

[walkal]

Is there a hosting service that doesn't "guarantee" 99.9% uptime?

[Tom Gilleland]

For developers who are just getting started and do low-volume credit card processing take a look at Propay. No monthly fees, $35 per year, 3.5% plus $.35 for each sale. You have to type in the card number, exp date, and amount.

https://epay.propay.com/cgi/appProcess1.exe/tier_detail

Then once your volume is higher, move to one of the more advanced services.

Tom

[AVataRR]

I would also add Trymedia's ActiveMark:
(handles DRM security, payment & distribution)

http://www.trymedia.com

White papers can be found here:
http://www.trymedia.com/services/services_whitepapers.shtml

hi. trymedia sounds very very nice indeed, but they seem to be coy about their commision rates and transaction fees. do you know where we can find out about them?

[DrWilloughby]

hi. trymedia sounds very very nice indeed, but they seem to be coy about their commision rates and transaction fees. do you know where we can find out about them?
Best to hear that straight from the horse's mouth.

[GnadeGames]

Does any one out there use Paypal or payloadz? pretty easy and cheap.

[mash]

You can use PayPal account with most ecommerce providers (plimus, esellerate, etc.)

[StormcloudCreations]

I offer a payment service to any authors interested: SV (Stormcloud Ventures) Payments.

The skinny:
- Secure Credit Card processing (Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Discover) with fraud screening with a built-in shopping cart functionality without needing to install anything on your site at all
- 6% flat fee, no minimum
- NO startup, gateway or monthly fees or service fees of any kind
- Check mailed to you every month in USD (to account for any chargebacks), with full receipts of every order sent to you as they happen

I've been in the biz for over 7 years and already processed hundreds of payments, so i'm not out to rip anybody off. :)

Feel free to e-mail me (or PM me here) if anyone finds this interesting: derek@stormcloudcreations.com

Thanks!
Derek

[kay.altos]

I would also add Trymedia's ActiveMark:
(handles DRM security, payment & distribution)

http://www.trymedia.com

White papers can be found here:
http://www.trymedia.com/services/services_whitepapers.shtml

Yes it's interesting, BigFish svitched to them a year ago. :)

[MibUK]

regshare.com seems to have expired and is now a crappy search page thing.

[flash2x]

If you have a Paypal account, try http://www.swpal.com/. This website provides shopping cart and registration code delievery.

[jetro]

Nowadays PayPal offers paying with credit card even without owning a paypal account, as well as some shopping cart features etc.

What are your main reasons today to use e.g. Plimus instead of just using PayPal? PayPal is considerably cheaper.

I can think of following reasons:
* Some users refuse to use PayPal (should be rare?)
* Plimus offers perhaps richer tools for coupons and more add-on services like mailing the game on a CD
* Plimus offers slightly wider set of payment options, including a bit rare ways (cheque, order by phone, ...)
* Plimus can pay the taxes directly for you
Are there some more significant reasons as these which I have overlooked? Everybody is using a service like Plimus or Regnow, so I keep thinking there must be some strong reason for that beyond the ones I listed.

[ErikH2000]

The big reasons you are missing on your list is PayPal's exceptionally poor customer service (with you the vendor as the customer) and their practice of locking down accounts as a means of "dispute resolution". Your ability to process payments can be taken away for weeks because somebody makes a complaint against you. And it's very difficult to reach a human being at PayPal to get it fixed.

Well, that's what people were saying a year ago. I don't know if it's changed.

-Erik

[ChrisP]

I don't trust Paypal. I have an account, but use it only when absolutely necessary, and keep my balance as small as possible. They closed my old account permanently* after I "got the password wrong" too many times (I was certain that it was the correct password). I was glad I'd decided not to leave any money in there!

* I did have the option of faxing a bunch of documents to them to prove my identity, but I really couldn't be bothered. Too much work for $1!

The main reason, though, is that the full vendor services (Plimus, BMT, etc.) do all the commerce junk for you. I like knowing that all the complicated shopping cart and tax and fraud-prevention crap has been outsourced and I don't have to worry about it. The last thing I want to be doing is figuring out how much VAT I have to charge someone and dealing with fraudulent transactions and so on. It's worth a small percentage to be free of all that.

[Escapee]

I try to limit my account balance to less than **** at any given period , I would spend the fund on stuffs ( that sometimes i don't really need ) or advertisement just to keep the balance below **** with fear that i may get locked up for reason that's beyond my imagination.

Just do search on paypal *&*^ you know what i meant ( it's scary) .

http://www.google.com.my/search?hl=en&q=Paypal+sucks&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.com.my/search?hl=en&q=Paypal+class+action&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

[jetro]

The main reason, though, is that the full vendor services (Plimus, BMT, etc.) do all the commerce junk for you. I like knowing that all the complicated shopping cart and tax and fraud-prevention crap has been outsourced and I don't have to worry about it. The last thing I want to be doing is figuring out how much VAT I have to charge someone and dealing with fraudulent transactions and so on. It's worth a small percentage to be free of all that.

Does this hardness of VAT-stuff apply only to you who live in US, having to cope with states and VAT rules when selling to EU?

Or do you, who live in EU, think that the VAT is enough of an hassle not to handle it yourself? If I have understood correctly, VAT is fixed rate when selling inside EU and no VAT when selling to non-EU contries (selling electronic goods in internet), when your business resides in EU.


In practice, how the fraud handling is better with commerce providers like bmt/plimus, compared to e.g. paypal? You end up paying anyway for chargebacks, don't you? How big problem this is nowadays? I have a feeling that the criticism against PayPal might be slightly exaggerated, coming from a small but loud minority of people who have had unlucky stuff happening to them.

[ChrisP]

Does this hardness of VAT-stuff apply only to you who live in US, having to cope with states and VAT rules when selling to EU?

Or do you, who live in EU, think that the VAT is enough of an hassle not to handle it yourself? If I have understood correctly, VAT is fixed rate when selling inside EU and no VAT when selling to non-EU contries (selling electronic goods in internet), when your business resides in EU.
The world is bigger than the United States and the EU, you know. ;-)

I'm in Australia. I don't know what the VAT rules are for me selling things in the EU, and frankly I don't want to have to care. I want to be a game developer, not an international tax expert. :)

I have a feeling that the criticism against PayPal might be slightly exaggerated, coming from a small but loud minority of people who have had unlucky stuff happening to them.

That's what I thought. Then it happened to me.

Sorry to be so melodramatic, but them's the facts.

[GolfHacker]

I'm in the process of switching to Plimus, and it looks like one of the payment options they accept is PayPal. So customers who prefer to use PayPal can still do so.

I've had my own merchant account for the past 4 years, but I'm switching for several reasons.

VAT - I didn't have to worry about this before because my annual company revenue was small enough that it was under the EU radar screen (I think the legal threshold was 10G), but that is no longer the case. Don't want to deal with the nightmare that is VAT by myself - this is a good thing to outsource.
Fees - factoring in my merchant account, shopping cart, payment gateway, and fraud detection package fees from last year, it exceeded the 10% base fee Plimus offers. So Plimus is now cheaper for me.
CD - Plimus offers CD on demand, which I like because my CA business license prohibits me from selling physical product unless I get a Resellers Permit, which would require quarterly tax statements - more paperwork, ugh!
Payment options - With my merchant account, I only accepted MC and Visa because accepting other cards increased my fees. With Plimus, I can accept a much wider range of cards and payment options.
Affiliates - Through Plimus, I can sign up affiliates.


Once I have Plimus set up, I'm thinking of looking into BMT for backup.

[cliffski]

In practice, how the fraud handling is better with commerce providers like bmt/plimus, compared to e.g. paypal? You end up paying anyway for chargebacks, don't you? How big problem this is nowadays? I have a feeling that the criticism against PayPal might be slightly exaggerated, coming from a small but loud minority of people who have had unlucky stuff happening to them.

BMT reply within 24-48 hours to any email in my experience. Paypal do not, if at all. Also, i tend to deal with the same people at BMT each day (Kim and Barb).
that makes a huge difference.

[lennard]

I wish BMT would add a few more things to their service - primarily I would like to be able to contact all buyers of a piece of software with one swell foop, I mean, mass emailing - but otherwise I have to give a big thumbs up to BMT. I used to use PayLoadz and PayPal - never had a complaint but the pay structure was better with BMT so I switched and haven't looked back.

[papastiffy]

I am also all freeware but I'm looking to get into shareware. I had a peek at Google Checkout but haven't seen it as an example in this thread yet. Is there something wrong with using Google Checkout?
It also seems simple enough, flat rates per transaction and discounts for using Adwords(which I was going to be using anyway).