Using real soccer player names and tournaments, legal?

[Jack Norton]

EDIT: Nevermind, I saw that the other game stopped updating :) so this post has no sense anymore, you can delete it :)

[Andy]

Though. Easily. You just make them editable. ;)

[lakibuk]

I think it's not legal to use real names (players,leagues,clubs).
For example Oliver Kahn sued EA Sports because they used him in Fifa 2002.
http://www.aardvarksport.net/chat/viewtopic.php?t=343

[baegsi]

Yeah, I think player names and names of tournaments are all trademarks of the respective organizations, so you can not use them.

[Fry Crayola]

Another example of the commercialism in the sport. It's a sad thing.

However, I do believe they can't touch you at all for representing a player as long as he has a fake name, and they can't touch you for representing a competition as long is its name isn't the same as the original.

Which is a nice enough get-out.

[Jack Norton]

Yes and I was upset because I saw another indie soccer game with original team/player names... ;)
Even commercial games like Pro Evolution Soccer use fake names like "WEFA Champions League" and so on... :)

[Fry Crayola]

Better than Football Manager's EURO Cup and Vase.

What was the other game? Mine? Or someone elses?

[bluejay]

there's a reason why EA game spend crapload of money getting the NFL license....

[Fry Crayola]

Yup - the uninformed majority are drawn to the "official" products.

The prospect of being able to play with the real players and teams in the real stadia, in real competitions with real logos and top notch presentation based on the real deal becomes too much for a lot of folk, blinding them to the game inside. That's why FIFA outsells Pro Evolution Soccer. The gits.

Still, there is a lot to be said in certain genres for the authenticity. Football management titles lose quite a bit when a lot of fun of the game is building a dream team of real life stars for your local side. I'd rather sign Zinedine Zidane than some random. For a while, anyhow.

I just miss the old days when licensing never was a problem because the associations didn't care. Back in the early to mid nineties, any developer could write a footie title without licenses and fill it with real teams and players. And it never hurt anybody. Now the associations just want a piece of the monetary pie.

[Omega]

Supposedly, the names of stadiums, since almost all of them have used public money, and the names of the cities, can be used by anyone. You can also pay an athlete individually to appear on your box shot or as a spokesperson, as far as I understand. Maybe you have a cousin or two who are big-time soccer players and would model for you for free? People would see a familiar face on the box and in the ads, and buy the game.

I believe one of the two top soccer games is unlicensed--Pro Evolution. (And therefore, uses fake names.) That is a good thing for you. It means that there are hundreds of thousands of consumers of soccer games who are used to this concept. So, your soccer game, with fake players, could be well-received.

Something else that's been suggested is that you might be able to ask a whole bunch of tiny leagues if they want to be inside your game for free.

Those are things that have been suggested in forums of an indie (American) Football computer game.

[luggage]

I don't think you can use ground name's, they're not all built with public funded money - in fact I'd say that more major teams own their own ground than don't.

Pro Evolution isn't totally unlicensed, they have a few leagues that are official, the Italian league for one is officially licensed.

Some teams you can get away with, like Liverpool would be ok, as it's the name of the city, same as Manchester. Calling them Manchester United wouldn't be ok.

One of the options that Sensible Soccer used was just switching vowels. This leaves the names readable and gives an easy way for people to edit the names back. They don't have to figure out who it is you're talking about to know what they should correct the name to. You could also supply a 'vowel swapper' tool to make it even easier.

[Fry Crayola]

Sensible World of Soccer had entirely correct names for players and teams, without a license. Plenty of games did the switching vowels one (Andreas Osswald's Championship Soccer does that) but I find it to be slightly offputting.

City names, of course, can be used by anyone.

As for player names, I do have a question. Does anyone know if it would be illegal if I changed only the first names of the players? Having a Manchester United fronted by Ronald Van Nistelrooy and Jim Rooney rather than Ruud and Wayne? Theoretically, different players even though they'd be based on the real thing. Would that be dodgy legal ground?

I'm also curious about the whole names licensing business. Sports Interactive's Football Manager 2005 has over 250,000 people in the database and I am almost certain that every single person has not been licensed. They may get permission from the leagues in some cases or from the players' associations, but with over 230 nations in the game that would be a lot of licenses.

The only person with a fake name in the game is Oliver Kahn, and he has a history of not allowing his likeness or name to be used. I'm guessing that for most of FM's database it's more a question of "If you ask, we'll remove you".

I'd certainly be tempted to go with a similar situation - individual players are generally nice people who aren't going to take much action against an indie games developer.

[Jack Norton]

I believe that if you only use names without specific representation is a different thing (ex. using D.Beckham doesn't mean that the D = David, could be Donald!).
Still is too dangerous for me :D

[Fry Crayola]

I remember playing Alex Ferguson's Player Manager 01/02 on the PlayStation. When the game was loading up, there was a splash screen that said...

"The players and teams represented in the is game are entirely fictional".

It sadly didn't go on to say the usual about things being "entirely coincidental".

Could be a trick?

And will Trey Parker and Matt Stone get sued by Kim Jong-Il for his unsolicited appearance in Team America? That could be telling...

[Nutter2000]

I never understood that, how can it be Alex Ferguson's "Player Manager" the last time he actually played football was 1974 or something like that!

Anyway, even using player, team, league, competition, etc names without permission is a deadly game.
Even D. Beckham is dangerous, does he play for UnReal Madrid? :D