New UK meetup

[cliffski]

Who reckons it's time for another UK meetup? This time a more structured one, where we book somewhere to eat in advance, stay (reasonably) sober, and actually talk about game development a bit more. I could bring a laptop with a game to show people etc.
Seriously, we can do it without all drinking till 3am, I know we can!
Anyone game for another meet?

[zoombapup]

Yeah, I'm up for another one. Probably need to book somewhere if we want to get a bit more formal/informative. Shouldnt be too hard to arrange though. Dont forget there is that business school I stayed at (at the university), which had cheap rooms with breakfast and I'm sure has bookable meeting rooms too.

I've got some products to discuss too (and a game prototype that I'm having trouble with the layout of).

[cliffski]

yes that sounds ideal. A booked meeting room would be cool. If it's happens before Kudos 2 is done, I'd like to see what people make of that.

How does Late August/Early September sound to everyone?

[princec]

Sounds good to me.

Cas :)

[papillon]

I'll probably be off in SF again at that time, not that anyone really expects me to crawl out of my hidden cave. :)

[Grey Alien]

Yeah I'll probably come again too but won't drink a thing ;-) Won't be able to show off my game I'm afraid (NDA) but I'd love to see what other people are doing.

[zoombapup]

Can we make it early september? I'm moving house last week in august.

[cliffski]

Fine with me. I'm around until late October when I'm in sunny New Zealand.
Could you see what's involved in getting that meeting room thing?

[Grey Alien]

Early Sept is cool but I can't do Sat 5th or Sun 6th as I'm doing Aikido, or Sat 19th or Sun 20th as I'm going for my 2nd Dan. So the weekend in between (12th/13th) is good for me OR a weekday because being Indie means I don't have to turn up to "work" (although this will be changing, more details at the meetup!)

[zoombapup]

I'll contact aston tommorow. Weirdly the rooms are actually quite expensive on thier website, but were really cheap from the place I booked. I wonder if there's somewhere else to book the meeting rooms too.

How many heads are we talking? We probably need a ballpark figure to then find out which room we can book.

[cliffski]

No idea, I've emailed a few other people, so might have some extra numbers tommorow, so worth waiting a bit.

[jamesm]

Hi, I would be interested in attending - been lurking here for a while :)

A couple of questions though:

Where is it likely to be held?

What kinda costs are going to be involved?

Also a weekend (Sat or Sun) would be the only days I can attend, not sure about anybody else?

Cheers,

james

[cliffski]

I think a weekend is most likely, I can do any day, but I know some people are in cas's position and probably working elsewhere during the week.

[Jamie W]

If it's going to be a weekender, why not make it at Butlins or Pontins or somewhere fun?

[princec]

Cliff's mansion^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hhouse then ;)

Cas :)

[Jamie W]

Alton towers ... :D

[zoombapup]

You know thats probably not a bad idea.

BTW: Are there any requests for a change of location, birmingham was ok, but it didnt feel any better doing things there than anywhere else.

I'll have a look around.

[zoombapup]

Can I just throw this out there. I know last time we met in birmingham which was central. But if thats not so big of an issue, I could offer a meeting room at the Uni I work at in Bolton as an incentive to hold it a bit further north.

Fact is, the meeting room is likely to cost more than anything else. The rest is just travel time really. There are also plenty of cheap accomodation options in Manc and its surrounding area (and Bolton).

Just a thought.

[Grey Alien]

Bolton is a considerable trek for me, like 6 hours in a car and 260 miles (£100+ in fuel for return journey, not sure how this compares to a train). Perhaps I could fly from Exeter... One advantage of Bolton is it's near Manchester and I could stay at an Aikido friend's and do a load of Aikido on Saturday morning...i.e. Dual purpose weekend

[cliffski]

I'd prefer not to go much further north, but will go with the consensus

[princec]

Wasn't there a rumour of Bristol or Reading this time?

Cas :)

[Grey Alien]

We can start a rumour...

Yeah I heard that we'd go for a more southern location this time, but would hate to make it a problem for zoombapup + others.

[thezombiecow]

FYI: I had a dream about this meeting, last night.

It cost £20 to get in, and only lasted for 15 minutes. I was trying to haggle, but couldn't work out what that meant 'per minute', so gave up and paid.

It was a small lecture hall, and Simon Carless was there talking about how it was worth the $6000 it cost him to rent the lecture theatre out for the day, but I couldn't work out how many meetings they'd have to have to get the money back, because it was in dollars.

Then everyone was drunk.

In summary: even in my dreams I can't do maths.

I can't make this, sadly. September is rotten for me. Unless it's in "London", which I doubt.

[jamesm]

Well if its going to be held near London (Good for me) I can sort out a venue which includes use of kitchen, bar, wifi, conference room (Small though and no projector), hall, car parking for about 30/40 quid tops (Maybe even free!!)
If I remember correctly there is also basic on site accommodation which would be free/very cheap.
Its in a place called Woking which is 20 minutes out of London and on the main train route out of London for the south.

If you are interested I can find out exact details and haggle a price and let you guys know!!

[princec]

Sounds good, and Woking's good for me too.

Cas :)

[cliffski]

I'm maybe 15 minutes drive from woking. so yay!

[Grey Alien]

It's good for me, train to Woking is straight forward from my place.

[thezombiecow]

I could possibly even make Woking, as long as everyone pretends we're still in London, technically.

[zoombapup]

4-5 hours on train for me, I guess the same for anyone "up north" too.

[papillon]

Aw, man, I could make Woking if I were in the country at the time... I've even been there to visit the Martian. :o

Hopefully you'll have a good enough time to want to go back?

[cliffski]

When *can* you make it? because I'm pretty flexible on when we do this thing, and woking suits me *perfectly*.
I could challenge everyone to beat me at wii-fit ski slalom afterwards :D.

If we do a meet at woking, and anyone needs somewhere to crash for budget reasons, and you aren't scared of cats, My house is not far from there.

[papillon]

Oo, my busy social calendar. :) October? I'm back to .uk at the end of September, and I've got a LARP convention I'm running an event at in November... November's not impossible but just much more complicated.

[jamesm]

How about the first weekend in October? Saturday 4th?

James

[cliffski]

I think thats cool with me. who else would come along?

[Grey Alien]

Arse. Helen, my partner, is doing the Great North Run on Sunday 5th and likely she'll want to go up the day before and either I'll go too with the kids or be babysitting at home. So it's not a good weekend for me. Sept 27th is (before). Or Oct 11th (after). Although any much later and there's a change I won't be a UK resident any more ;-)

[cliffski]

damn, its like herding cats.
Anyone with more organisational skills got any good ideas?

[cliffski]

Ok, anyone can't make October 11th?

[Grey Alien]

What would be really neat (million dollar idea for a website...) is an online calendar that people can check and mark which days they can attend on. Then the calendar can show which day the most people can attend on and we can pick that day! :-)

A simple alternative would be a Poll where instead of chosing one option, you can choose SEVERAL, and then we could list all the possible dates as options.

[Roman Budzowski]

What would be really neat (million dollar idea for a website...) is an online calendar that people can check and mark which days they can attend on. Then the calendar can show which day the most people can attend on and we can pick that day! :-)

Isn't Google Calendar doing that?

cheers
Roman

[Grey Alien]

Dunno, I wondered if something like that did it, but signing up and logging onto all those things is a pain, it would be nice to just quickly add your details. Anyway, anyone feel like setting up a google calendar?

[jamesm]

Ive just checked. Google calenders wont allow public writing to a calender, only people who are added to the calender (and I guess they have to be signed up with google to do so?? )

So my suggestion is write down which weekends you are and are not available and then we can tally them up!!

Sept 6 yes
Sept 13 yes
Sept 20 yes
Sept 27 yes
Oct 4 yes
Oct 11 yes
Oct 18 yes
Oct 25 yes
Nov 1 yes
Nov 8 yes
Nov 15 No


James

[Grey Alien]

Sept 6 NO
Sept 13 yes
Sept 20 NO
Sept 27 yes
Oct 4 NO
Oct 11 Maybe
Oct 18 yes
Oct 25 NO
Nov 1 yes
Nov 8 NO
Nov 15 yes

[cliffski]

Sept 6 yes
Sept 13 yes
Sept 20 yes
Sept 27 yes
Oct 4 yes
Oct 11 yes
Oct 18 yes
Oct 25 NO
Nov 1 NO
Nov 8 NO
Nov 15 yes

[jamesm]

Any more for any more?

[xelanoimis]

I'll be in UK in August 16-17 weekend, but I guess that's too soon for a meeting...

[Grey Alien]

This appears to have died a death. Is it the location, the dates, the company?

[Jamie W]

I dunno; I think the UK may well be too big, so it's always going to be that some have to travel 100+ miles.

If there were enough of us, I'd say it'd make sense to hold regional meet-ups, and then once in a while, have a UK-wide meet-up.

[papillon]

Lack of firm leadership - difficult when dealing with indies, it's like herding cats. :)

[cliffski]

The good thing about london is that you can get there from anywhere.
Anyone tempted by a London meetup?
There is also tons to do there, so if its a trek for anyone you can combine it with other stuff maybe.

[Grey Alien]

I'm still up for it. We only need like 4+ to make it viable. When I went to the one in Vancouver there was like 14 or something, it was a good showing.

[jamesm]

I'm still up for it!

[cliffski]

lets do it with papillon is free. otherwise we will all continue to assume she is an AI bot and not a real person :D

[princec]

I'm generally free mostly always although there is a weekend in September I'm not and can't do it.

London is a bit of a trek and I hate the place :/

Cas :)

[Grey Alien]

@Princec: well Woking was mentioned earlier as a compromise...

What weekend in Sept is a no go for you? Some of us posted a date list.

[papillon]

I could still be a bot that hires standins... :)

Like I said, any time in October should be okay for me.

[cliffski]

Saturday october 11th in woking?

if its just a few of us, might as well make it a pizza thing? Maybe Zizzi?

[princec]

Works for me. Pizza Express though.. know where you are with Pizza Express :)

Cas :)

[Grey Alien]

Saturday october 11th in woking?That's my "Maybe" weekend depending on if there's an Aikido course in London or not. I prefer Sept 27 (best) or Oct 18th, but if everyone wants 11th then I'll just do that.

And pizza is fine with me.

[cliffski]

over to papillion to pick one of those three i reckon?

[papillon]

Attachment says he's fine with the 18th.

[cliffski]

18th OCTOBER IN WOKING
===================
It's official then.

I'll post more details and stuff tomorrow,

[Grey Alien]

OK then, we have a date: Sat Oct 18th; a location: Woking ; an eating establishment: Pizza Express (if one exists in Woking). So what else shall we do? Meet up and talk "Indie" stuff before and/or after the meal?

[cliffski]

there is indeed a pizza express:

http://www.pizzaexpress.com/find-a-restaurant/restaurant/1381/?lat=51.31741&lon=-0.56499&pc=woking&baby=0&takeaway=0&bar=0&meetingroom=0&alfresco=0&livemusic=0

not that far from the station either, for people thinking of getting a train there.
shall we say 7PM?
Its quite a time between now and then, so plenty of time for extra names to get added.

[princec]

Excellent; I'll be there.

Cas :)

[jamesm]

Count me in. That Pizza Express was very good last time I ate there. Its about a 5 minute walk from the station and out of the main area of town.

[jamesm]

Heh, when I read Pizza Express I thought you where on about someplace like this.
http://www.chaletlecoffy.co.uk/graphics
/restaurant_pizzaexpress.JPG

Then I clicked the link and remembered :D

[Grey Alien]

Added to my calendar. So after the pizza shall we find somewhere quiet to talk "Indie"?

[cliffski]

could do. Open to suggestions really.

[princec]

Pizza Express is quite a good spot to chat actually. Although rather expensive to drink at.

Cas :)

[jamesm]

Off the top of my head I cant think of anywhere quiet on a Saturday night, there's a pub just across the road called "The Goldsworth Arms", I would stay well away from that!
There's really only Wetherspoons which doesn't play loud music in the town center but that's usually heaving with people, there is an O'Neils but I can't remember if they have music playing on Saturday nights.

[Grey Alien]

Yeah I guess places will be busy on Sat night. Guess we can hang around in pizza express but it may not be a great place for showing stuff on laptops of course (well I wasn't gonna bring mine anyway ;-p)

[cliffski]

The Pickford Bros say they will be coming along to this too (can't post here themselves at the mo, lost account pass etc).

[cliffski]

Pizza Express is quite a good spot to chat actually. Although rather expensive to drink at.

Cas :)


yeah yeah, I'll buy you a drink. :D

[Grey Alien]

pickford bros, cool. They've made a ton of games over the years.

Hey Princec, I'll buy you a drink if you accept that it's PORTAL MONEY I'll be spending on you...;-)

[princec]

pickford bros, cool. They've made a ton of games over the years.

Hey Princec, I'll buy you a drink if you accept that it's PORTAL MONEY I'll be spending on you...;-)
Oh, you can spend as much portal money on me as you like! I like the thought that their businesses are funding my inebriation.

Cas :)

[Grey Alien]

well if I buy you a drink, only 40% of it is yours and the rest is mine.

[Jamie W]

The Pickford Bros say they will be coming along to this too (can't post here themselves at the mo, lost account pass etc).

Briefly met half of them (one with the beard, Ste?), nice chap. :)

[princec]

well if I buy you a drink, only 40% of it is yours and the rest is mine.

So long as you buy me 100x more drinks than I could otherwise afford I'll be happy with that ;)

Cas :)

[Jim Prior]

Hi I know I'm kinda new here, and not even a Dev yet, but well woking is very possible for me to make - and I can tell you my story about how religion in Civ4 was kinda my idea ;) and I just love to talk about the games industry.

So is this all still on? I don't think I read any updates from jamesm about those rooms at the conference centre etc.

So my questions are:

1. Where are we all staying over the weekend(in woking)?
2. How much will it cost for accommodation?
3. Can I come?

[Grey Alien]

I wouldn't exclude anyone who's interested in Pizza and making games. Good question about where we are staying. For the birmingham one we were scattered around as everywhere seemed fully booked, but it's a good idea to stay near to the eating venue and also if we all stay in the same place and the hotel has a bar we can hang our there (and buy overpriced drinks).

So if anyone feels like doing hotel research (I did loads last time), then please do! :-)

[Jim Prior]

Well if its going to be held near London (Good for me) I can sort out a venue which includes use of kitchen, bar, wifi, conference room (Small though and no projector), hall, car parking for about 30/40 quid tops (Maybe even free!!)
If I remember correctly there is also basic on site accommodation which would be free/very cheap.
Its in a place called Woking which is 20 minutes out of London and on the main train route out of London for the south.

If you are interested I can find out exact details and haggle a price and let you guys know!!

Sounds good to me also :) Is this a goer jamesm? include me in the numbers when you haggle!

Woking is about 1 hr journey from where I am(just outside Richmond in london), so in theory i could commute in on both days if the above plan of jamesm doesn't work out.
If this is the case then I've checked with my partner and she is cool with giving up the spare room for someone(s?) to crash at our place if need be, thinking of those guys coming from afar.

[jamesm]

Well it wasn't a conference center, it is a local Sea Cadet unit with all the facilities mentioned.
I haven't spoken to the guy as I am under the impression the meeting is taking place at the pizza place.

If there is interest in the use of the unit then I will contact the guy in charge!

Here are some pictures of the unit, there are a couple of the classrooms/conference room there but you cant really see much, there is also a big hall with lots of tables and seating available and of course the bar (Quite cheap).

http://www.wokingseacadets.org.uk/unitphotos.htm

[Desktop Gaming]

Here are some pictures of the unit
Looks a bit ropey.

:D

[Grey Alien]

Looks OK to me, I've trained in plenty of ropey old places. I don't need it to look like the penthouse suite in the Hilton and be surrounded by babes (although if that option came up, then fine). But anyway, it sounded more like a pizza and chat at the pizza place + I'm recommending staying in same hotel for continued char there, just not 4am again guys!

[Xiotex]

oh.... Pizza. Count me in (if there is still space).

[cliffski]

you are all lightweights. alcohol at 4am is what indie gaming is all about!
I'm keen on the pizza and chat thing. if someone has a good hotel bar for post-pizza chat, that's great. I'm pretty local so won't be staying in a hotel this time.
I guess we can put up with the likes of xiotex if we have to :D

[Desktop Gaming]

Looks OK to me, I've trained in plenty of ropey old places......well.... there was a picture of some rope..... never mind! :D

The last meetup I went to (3 years back now), we all retired to the hotel bar at around 12:30am. Silly me got the first round in that cost me nearly twenty quid. Half way down my pint, the missus turned up to give me a lift home. :mad:

People still owe me pintage. :cool:

October's no good for me... actually no time this year is. G/f is due to drop in early Nov so I can't chance being away. Might go to next year's one but only if there will be beer (and if its not in the arse-end of nowhere like this one is).

[papillon]

You people and your booze. I am reminded of a short story in which a swordswoman finds herself having to hang out in brothels in order to maintain the bonds of camaraderie with her fellow (male) guards... :)

(I am currently in California and sleepy. If I need to make any particular arrangements before I get back to the UK at the end of the month, somebody remind me!)

[cliffski]

I promise not to get really drunk. Seriously, one of the aims of this meetup is to be more business like and helpful and less like the party from black adder.
It'll be GREAT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmqbO-lY0LM

[Desktop Gaming]

It'll be GREAT!
<cliffski> So then, what are your plans for the upcoming fiscal year?
<others> .....um.... make money....?
<cliffski> ....cool....

...lengthy and uncomfortable pause....

<cliffski> anyone fancy a beer?

[Grey Alien]

lol.

Great clip Cliffski.

[Jim Prior]

yeah, blackadder was great - shame he's stuck just doing mr.bean these days.

[cliffski]

Just bumping this thread to remind people it's still happening, and the more the merrier etc.

[papillon]

Okay, I am back in the UK, jetlagged to hell and falling over. Now, what am I supposed to be doing again? Do I need to prebook things? :)

*faceplant*

[cliffski]

18th OCTOBER IN WOKING
===================

At pizza express.

So not immiment :D

[Ste Pickford]

Finally got my password again!

Just to confirm what was mentioned earlier that my brother John and I will be coming along to this.

Look forward to meeting you all!

[Grey Alien]

I'll still be there!

[Nutter2000]

oops, almost missed this thread!

I'm up for meeting up and I should be free that day.

What hotels are people looking at or are you all camping in the sea cadets hut (and if so is there still room for one more ;))?

Iain

[Grey Alien]

I haven't booked a hotel yet. Meant to do it before now. Will post back my results when I'm done.

Actually I just remember Cliffski's saying he might have room at his house. *Cliffski* is that offer still open as I wouldn't mind visiting and I'm a good house guest :-)

[Grey Alien]

So what time are we meeting again? I'm trying to book at the Holiday Inn now but their system seems to be down, sigh...OK their phone works at least, booked en-suite King Bed + full breakfast £79. Seems fine.

[cliffski]

I think the time mentioned was 7PM. A few days before hand I'll email everyone to see whsoe likely to be there and I'll book a table in my name (cliff harris). If you can book a table there. I'll send everyone my mobile number then too.

[Nutter2000]

Cool, I've booked into the Holiday Inn as well.

See you all there

Iain

[JPickford]

Ste booked the train tickets today so we're sorted. Staying at Chez Cliff apparently.

[Jim Prior]

I'm still up for this but will do it a different way. I plan to travel to and from London(Richmond) on saturday+sunday(rather than stay the night in woking). Basicaly a return journey on each day, works out at £7.50 each day, takes about 45 mins(each way) and they go direct and very regularly.

Last train is around 11pm(from woking) and sunday I can get in at whatever time in the day we plan to start, same price(£7.50) for the return. So £15 for that journey over the weekend.

Now I still have the offer of a spare room for a 'guest' if anyone thinks they are up for this type of travel to-and-from the meet?

Travel from richmond to my place is best done with a day travel card(cost £3.50) you can pick up at most corner shops, and will cover the bus journey(about 10-15mins).

So all in all £22 for the weekends travel and free place to stay(will need to fund your own food I suspect! but tea/coffee etc is fine) if that sounds ok then let me know.

Jim

ps my girlfriend says no psycho's please! lol - women! oh yeah no smoking either(in the flat that is).

[papillon]

We're also heading for the holiday inn.

lol - men!

[Sectarian]

Sounds like a load of fun, unfortunitly I can't make it my 2 year old burned her hand on the stove couple of days ago and I need to be with her. So have some fun and drink one or two for me. :cool:

[JPickford]

I'm still up for this but will do it a different way. I plan to travel to and from London(Richmond) on saturday+sunday(rather than stay the night in woking). Basicaly a return journey on each day, works out at £7.50 each day, takes about 45 mins(each way) and they go direct and very regularly.

Last train is around 11pm(from woking) and sunday I can get in at whatever time in the day we plan to start, same price(£7.50) for the return. So £15 for that journey over the weekend.

Now I still have the offer of a spare room for a 'guest' if anyone thinks they are up for this type of travel to-and-from the meet?

Travel from richmond to my place is best done with a day travel card(cost £3.50) you can pick up at most corner shops, and will cover the bus journey(about 10-15mins).

So all in all £22 for the weekends travel and free place to stay(will need to fund your own food I suspect! but tea/coffee etc is fine) if that sounds ok then let me know.

Jim

ps my girlfriend says no psycho's please! lol - women! oh yeah no smoking either(in the flat that is).

I thought we were just going for a Pizza and some chat on Saturday.

[Grey Alien]

I thought we were just going for a Pizza and some chat on Saturday.pWe are. + a few secret Indie handshakes.

[Jim Prior]

.................edit..........

lol - men!

Ok yeah that wasn't how i meant it! honest :o
Maybe "lol - my gf(being 'practical' roll eyes)" - something like that?

@ JPickford, yeah i may have added another day somewhere along the line! So just the meetup on Saturday evening it is then.

p.s. I loved Feud + Amaurote back in the day, two cool 8-bit games.

[Nutter2000]

Sounds like a load of fun, unfortunitly I can't make it my 2 year old burned her hand on the stove couple of days ago and I need to be with her. So have some fun and drink one or two for me. :cool:

Shame you can't make it Ian, hope your little 'un is ok.

Iain

[JPickford]

We're still dressing as Pirates right?

[Desktop Gaming]

We're still dressing as Pirates right?
Arr!

(sorry)

[JPickford]

I'm going to try to play everyones games before Saturday.

Kudos 2 just called me a drunkard.:eek:

[Grey Alien]

We're still dressing as Pirates right?you mean like spotty teenagers?

[papillon]

Are there any secret codes needed to distinguish you lot from the other aliens wandering around Woking? :)

[Grey Alien]

Do you mean what do we look like? Have you seen a picture of Cliff on his blog? I have long black hair in a ponytail, wear glasses and I'm about 5'6" if that helps. The Pickford bros have picture on their site too. If Cas is coming, he just looks crazy so is easy to spot.

[cliffski]

I'll be the guy who sounds like he smokes 50 a day because I lost my voice at a nightclub last night.
I don't get to say that often.
There is a table booked in my name which is Cliff HARRIS. So you can ask the pizza express guys.
I think I've emailed or PMed everyone my mobile number.

[princec]

I look a bit more sane now my hair's short!

Cas :)

[Nutter2000]

You could also check out the photos from the last meet

http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=13291

Iain

[Grey Alien]

I might be off the booze tonight as I'm on painkillers for two premolars I had removed on Tuesday that still hurt like buggery. We'll see...

[cliffski]

Are there any secret codes needed to distinguish you lot from the other aliens wandering around Woking? :)

Me Cas and the pickfords will all arrive together so there will be a bunch of us if that helps more.

[papillon]

If you mailed me anything my spam folder ate it.

[Jim Prior]

I'd like to say thanks to you all for welcoming me into your group. I had a very interesting evening and overall i found the meeting helped me decide that game dev was something i should go for, so thanks for that.

Sorry i had to rush off so suddenly, but i sort of lost track of time and at 11:28 i realised i had to get to the station for my last train at 11:33!
lol, luckily my in-built gps got me to the station just in time(as the doors of my train closed for the last time infact!).

Anyway i hope you all went on to have plenty of interesting discussions and see you at the next one :)

[jamesm]

Im gutted I missed it! Up in Newcastle at the moment crazy busy with college work.

Hope you all enjoyed Woking! Look foward to seein some pics.

James

[papillon]

Cliff is much less scary in person! :)

[JPickford]

Great to meet everyone. Big thanks to Cliff for the hospitality and sage advice.

[Grey Alien]

Yeah cool to meet you all too (and some of you again). Will post some photos soon...

[Nutter2000]

Yeah, it was great to meet everyone (again)

You'll have to come back to Blighty for the next one in April, Jake :p

[Grey Alien]

Photo's posted here:

http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=14792

[JPickford]

Cliff is much less scary in person! :)

Yeah, he needs to work on that!

;)