Feedback request: Garden War

[Emmanuel]

Hello everyone again !

I would like to sign up around five beta-testers for my new strategy game for everyone, Garden War. The game is near complete, with only one song and final SFX missing. I would like to make sure it's as fun to play for you as it is for me, and that it's as bug-free as can be, so that nothing gets in the way of relaxing with it !

Chosen beta-testers will get to try out three versions of the game. They get a FREE copy of the game upon release, by end of January.

Garden War is a NEW, fun-filled strategy game that exercises your brain. If you're looking for a mindless action game, this is not it ! This game will let you in on one of the world's best-kept secrets: Garden Dwarves lead a secret life ! While they may look like cute, lifeless ornaments to human beings, when nobody is looking, they defend the world against many evils and ensure world peace.

Armed with your BEST-trained squads of infantry, tank, and amphibian dwarves, your goal is to rid the world's gardens of humanity's enemies, by capturing them or their headquarters.

Garden War is a FUN, RELAXED experience: no timers, no joypad to hit repeatedly, no random elements, no going back to the beginning when the game ends ! It's entirely up to you to figure out how to capture enemies, whether you play casually for a few minutes, or for hours at a time !

Screenshots: 1 (http://www.gardenwar.com/garden/gwshot1.jpg) 2 (http://www.gardenwar.com/garden/gwshot2.jpg)

Go ahead and download the free demo here:
http://www.gardenwar.com/garden/download.html

If you would like to help making this game great, send me a private message saying that you would like to be a beta tester. If chosen, I will arrange for you to get the full version and report issues and enhancements.

The website, www.gardenwar.com, is a mock-up of the product pages that will be on the final site, however these pages will be included in a larger site of the publishing company I'm setting up. For this reason, the site has no meta-tags, and includes developer pages that will not be present in the production website. With this context in mind, I will love any comments about the pages as well !

Best regards
Emmanuel

[Emmanuel]

Okay, still need a couple more testers :)

Everyone who downloaded the demo, even if you haven't requested to test it, I'd love your feedback so I can improve the game. Please post here !

Especially:
- Was it obvious to operate?
- Was it fun?

Thanks

[Night Elf]

Hi, Emmanuel. I took some time to try your game and decided to write my impressions on it. I'll mostly point out what I think you did wrong, as that's what would help you make a better game. So, here it goes:

POLISH ISSUES:

- Windowed mode: It makes your game look more like a Windows app rather than a game. It even has a standard menu bar! It reminds me of the very basic card games that come with Windows.

- Nag screen at the beginning: Don't start selling me the game right from the beginning, when I haven't seen anything of the game. No matter how many cool features you offer me there, I won't buy the game without trying it first.

- It's hard for me to read the button texts on the GUI, it's black over dark brown. Consider adding a light outline around the text.

- The main menu screen is too simple with that plain green background, it needs more depth. Make it more attractive.

- Level selection: I hate having to choose a level when I don't even know what the game is about. How should I pick a level just judging from a small screenshot? The first level should be always the same for every player, and it should be some sort of tutorial. After that, when they know what the game's like, you can let the player choose if you want.

- When I enter the first level I'm presented with a message that says 'Computer plays first. Click to continue.' No clue of what's happening is given. You should insert a help text there, explaining in very few words how the game's played. In fact that text that appears next saying 'Each level is organized in turns...' is the first thing that you should show. However, I would rewrite the text to make it easier to read (you have a sentence that spans across four lines) and maybe show some graphics (as Popcap does in their games.)

- Another thing that caught my attention when entering the first level was that there were... scrollbars!! OMG! They're horrible, get rid of them. Code your own, prettier scrollbars or just leave the 'square scroller' (on the left bar) that is much better. The best you could do is have the map scroll automatically as the player moves the mouse pointer along the sides of the play area, as is done in every strategy game nowadays.

- You should make it clearer which the selected unit is. And it would be nice if the tile I'm selecting to move to, or the enemy I want to hit were highlighted when I move the mouse pointer over them. You should also mark which units where actioned on the current turn and which weren't.

- It would be nice if the game selected the next available character automatically instead of the palyer having to select each one by one. Of course, the player should have the option to change the current selection.

BUGS:

- In spite of the game saying 'Computer plays first' on the first level, I got to play first.
- After the computer made its move on the second level, the screen started scrolling between two locations back and forth. I had to scroll to correct the problem.
- The car moved in zig zag when the obvious path was a sraight vertical line.

THE GAME:

I found it quite boring, to speak the truth... Sorry :(. I don't like this kind of games very much, I admit it, but I have played similar games in the past (like Kartia, Final Fantasy Tactics, or even the small army minigame in FF7) which I enjoyed for some time. I must say that after playing the first two levels I wasn't hooked enough to continue playing.

I think this game has good graphics, but it's lacking a lot of effects and animations. With such a slow paced gameplay, you need some sort of visual and auditive reward on each move, or at least when you perform an attack. This is the main problem of this game, IMHO.

---

I know all this crticism must sound harsh, but believe me, it's intended to be constructive :). I hope you find it useful and helps you make your game better.

[princec]

What he said more or less, plus:

Please speed up the movement and animation by a factor of 4 - rather tedious waiting for things to occur
I personally hate games that run in a window but that's just me.
I frequently wasn't sure of which unit I was supposed to be clicking on and making it do something, or units which had actions still to perform.


Cas :)

[Emmanuel]

Don't worry guys, be harsh, if I didn't want criticism I wouldn't ask ! I'd rather have my game get criticized and analyzed by experienced gamers, fix the issues you guys note, and then deliver a great game to non-hardcore players.
I can justify a few things you said and stand by my decisions, without being defensive. For most of what you said, I agree and will get to fixing it !

Thanks nightelf and princec for making time to analyze the game, I'd appreciate if I got more feedback from others ! There seems to be a lot of game developing talent here, I'm fully intent on tapping it :)

The windowed mode, Windows application look, menu bar and scrollbar are intentional design decisions. I want non-hardcore gamers to pick up how to use the game right away, by using familiar abstractions. Nightelf, I do take note of your comments regarding the ugliness of the scrollbars though, I'll consider implementing my own so as to be more immersive. I'll stand by my design decision there mostly though.

Regarding the gameplay, however, you're right. I need to speed it up, and implement visual and audio rewards for each move and attack. It's true that quite bland right now. I don't see it since I've been playing the game for an hour or two every day for a while :)

Nightelf: it sounds like all you played is the two "boot camp" levels, they're not great, just there to explain the basic concepts of the game. Try the other two levels of the demo if you can make more time for me? I note that I need to make the boot camp levels more attractive and make it obvious they're just quick training.

So far, my most-to-least fix list would be:

1. Speed up gameplay
2. Implement visual and audio rewards while playing
3. Make it clear, what unit is selected, and what units are left to action.
4. Don't say "computer plays first" if the computer decides to yield without any action, so as not to confuse the player (good one !)
5. Simplify explanations in "boot camp" levels
6. Make it that the player always gets to play first in boot camp levels, so that you don't see the computer playing with no clue of what's happening.
7. Improve the title screen, give it more depth and more appeal.

Does that work for you, nightelf and princec? ( until you see the result at least :) )

That's my action plan so far, be sure to post more critics, it's VERY helpful. Thanks guys!

[Night Elf]

The windowed mode, Windows application look, menu bar and scrollbar are intentional design decisions. I want non-hardcore gamers to pick up how to use the game right away, by using familiar abstractions.
Maybe your decision is final, but in case it's not:

There are lots of very popular games for non-hardcore gamers don't use Windows standard controls. I would say almost no game nowadays use them.

It's not that you need to invent new abstactions that may be complex to understand for casual gamers, but to use the same old abstractions with a new look. This may seem like reinventing the wheel, but having a menu bar that use the wooden look of the rest of your GUI would give your game a much more professional look.

The windowed mode is OK, but it would be great if you provided a fullscreen mode for those who want it. It's a fairly standard feature of almost every game, so your customers may be expecting it.


Try the other two levels of the demo if you can make more time for me?

I'll try them later and will tell you what I think.

Oh, and I would add an item to your list, if I may:

8. Improve contrast in GUI buttons to make text more readable.

[stay]

The dark text against the background in buttons was hard to read.

The initial nag screen looks bad on my system - the text is wrapping strangely (and ends with "Free backg..."), and there's a square character after "5 bonus levels" that looks like a mistake. Presumably the bad wrapping is because I have "Large Fonts" selected in my display properties.

I had a hard time knowing when I had a selected unit and when it had moves remaining. It seems like to move and attack I have to click on a guy, click on his destination, then click on him again, and then click on his attack target. This was especially confusing and frustrating since once I'm controlling someone I can't stop controlling him without finishing his turn, apparently, so why do I have to click on him again? Grr...

It also doesn't help that higlighting a piece looks the same (to me, anyway) as having a piece selected and ready to move. I'm sure you did a lot of work on the animations, but they don't work very well as indications of state, since the animations are very slight, and the big selection boxes are more distinctive.

All in all I wish there we much clearer display of the various states a piece is in and what he can do next.

"Computer plays first Click to continue" - the last line of that (click to continue) is cut off on the bottom by 3-4 pixels.

The help text following that was also cut off on the bottom.

I wish I could click on the level art to choose a level instead of the button below it.

I REALLY want the pieces to move faster. Maybe this could be optionally turned fast or slow?

I love this style of game. I've wanted to do a simple turn-based war game for the casual player, myself! If you haven't played Advance Wars or Advance Wars II (for the GBA) I highly recommend them. They're slick, professional, fun, and *relatively* easy. They're more complicated than your game is trying to be, for sure, but they still do a lot of things I think you could adopt in your game. There's a web browser game modeled heavily after Advance Wars, but I'm having a hard time remembering the name... :(

Good luck,

-- stay

[Emmanuel]

Maybe your decision is final, but in case it's not:

There are lots of very popular games for non-hardcore gamers don't use Windows standard controls. I would say almost no game nowadays use them.


Ok, maybe miscommunication on my part here :) I want to keep a windowed mode (by default) and familiar-looking controls, but I am absolutely looking into wooden-style menu bars and scrollbars. I didn't think the standard controls were all that bad (and they're less important in terms of closing a sale than good gameplay), but you have a point that using custom controls will make the game more immersive and give it a more distinctive look.

The windowed mode is OK, but it would be great if you provided a fullscreen mode for those who want it. It's a fairly standard feature of almost every game, so your customers may be expecting it.



8. Improve contrast in GUI buttons to make text more readable.


I'll put it in the list :)

Thanks again nightelf

[Emmanuel]

The dark text against the background in buttons was hard to read.

Seems to be a shared opinion :)

The initial nag screen looks bad on my system. Presumably the bad wrapping is because I have "Large Fonts" selected in my display properties.

Ah, I didn't think of adding that to my tests. What fonts size you use shouldn't have mattered, I'll fix that. Thanks !


I wish I could click on the level art to choose a level instead of the button below it.


You're right, it's something that's expected to work nowadays (browsers et al). I will fix it.

I REALLY want the pieces to move faster. Maybe this could be optionally turned fast or slow?

I will accelerate the gameplay by default. It seems to be a fairly shared opinion (on this board and elsewhere).

There's a web browser game modeled heavily after Advance Wars, but I'm having a hard time remembering the name...

I'd appreciate if you could find it ! I don't own a GBA nor do I want to use a pirated version of Advance Wars on an emulator, so the web game sounds great :)

Thanks for all your feedback guys. It will save me hours of stumbling in the dark!

[Hiro_Antagonist]

The Advance Wars clone's name is Battalion (http://www.urbansquall.com/battalion_site/battalion_site.php).

Also, my game, Land of Legends, shares its very core with Advance Wars, (cell-based game, one unit per square, etc.) though the two games play out very differently. I think you may want to try it out (see this thread (http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=1113)), since it's fairly similar to your game, but that of course is up to you. =)

Cheers,

-Hiro_Antagonist

[stay]

Hiro,

Thanks for the Battalion link - that's the one I was thinking of. I'm pretty impressed with that game, and I think it's fantastic reference for medium-complexity turn-based grid-based war games.

I need to check out Land of Legends. I saw the original post and didn't follow up on trying the game.

-- stay

[Emmanuel]

The Advance Wars clone's name is Battalion (http://www.urbansquall.com/battalion_site/battalion_site.php)

Thanks ! I'm taking a look at it right now.