worst ever customer?

[cliffski]

a guy buys a game from me... so far so good.
about a month later he emails me saying
"Please confirm status of order no:

xxxx

jo bloggs"

I reply saying the order was completed and he should have received the email.
he replys saying he never got it (i doubt that)

I reply within hours saying this:

Here are the details:


Your license name is: XXX
Your license code is: XXX

This should have been emailed to you within minutes of you placing the
order. Either the payment processing company has made a mistake, or possibly
the email was blocked by an over-eager spam filter.
In any case, we apologise for the delay in getting your licence code to you.
As compensation, we have included this code:

XXXXX

Which is valid for a free full copy of our game Kombat Kars, which you can
download here:

http://www.positech.co.uk/kombatkars/index.shtml

Enjoy the games.

So i thought he would be happy at last. today he emails me with this:


Ref: Order I.D. XXX
I refer to the above order and wish to invoke my right of cancellation as per The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000

This allows a period of 7 working days from day after placement of order to request full and absolute refund of monies paid.

Please arrange for confirmation of cancellation to be made with immediate effect and evidence of refund to credit card in the full amount of £13.15 GBP.

Mr bloggs
per joe bloggs


I've replied asking what the hell is going on.
what do you do with customers this rude and pathetic? There is now ay he is going to get a penny from me by way of a refund. If he really annoys me, Ill make his name public so you can also refuse to deal with him.
bah!

[Mike Boeh]

We have one customer who has bought, and returned, every single game we have released- like clockwork.

Just last week we had one that bought, and then asked for a refund 10 minutes later, citing our guarantee. He didn't even disguise the fact that he was taking advantage of it.... But it doesn't phase me anymore- I just issue the refund and move on. The vast majority of customers are good, honest people.

[GBGames]

So basically a month after paying for the game, he finally decides to email you about it, asking "Where's my game?"

You respond with, "Here it is, and here's compensation for the possible messup with our systems."

He responds the next day with "Cancel my payment, [insert legalese about my consumer rights here]."


I'm sure there has to be more to this than what I read. What does your return policy say (I couldn't find one easily on your site)? Can you check to see if he managed to use the registration and so is asking for his money back fraudulently? He didn't really say why he wants it cancelled. Also, he originally put the order in way earlier than seven days, so if the law (which I am not familiar with) is as he states, he is way past the due date.

I would suggest pointing these things out, and also asking what reasons he has for requesting a refund. Point out your return/refund policy. I'm not sure what you can do other than consult your lawyer if he continues to be a problem customer.

[Rod Hyde]

a guy buys a game from me... so far so good.
about a month later he emails me saying
"Please confirm status of order no:

Ref: Order I.D. XXX
I refer to the above order and wish to invoke my right of cancellation as per The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000

This allows a period of 7 working days from day after placement of order to request full and absolute refund of monies paid.

Please arrange for confirmation of cancellation to be made with immediate effect and evidence of refund to credit card in the full amount of £13.15 GBP.

Mr bloggs
per joe bloggs


Maybe my brain is fried from my day job, but there are more than 7 working days in a month. I don't see that he or she has a leg to stand on.

--- Rod

[MattInglot]

I would refund the payment and ban the customer's e-mail and IP from the site. It's a trivial amount of money and can cause you a lot of problems in the form of things like charge backs.

[Obscure]

Hmmm trying to be smart. Buy game, play game, get bored, question the order then when they reply as you do try to cancel.

They state that the law in question states seven days from PLACEMENT of order (not fulfilment of order). Clearly that time has long past.

[MiCo Games]

The customer is always right?

[Addictive 247]

I'd just refund and move on. It's not worth your time or the hassle in chasing it.
I've had similar things in the past. I usually just reply nicely saying something like "sorry you didn't enjoy the game/couldn't download etc; here's your refund"
- job done.

[GBGames]

That makes sense. One upset customer is bad enough. Having to deal with him for longer than necessary is making it worse.

[cliffski]

makes sense I guess, but it annoys me to think such a rude thieving little swine would ever get away with it. I don't have any intetion of refunding money to such a rude individual.
His dad runs a horse-saddlery business (I checked out the domain), so I'll be tempted to order a few saddles if he carries on like this... ;)

[Nemesis]

cliffski,

I would double check that "7 working days from day after placement of order" clause because if that's true, the law is on your side, that is, just tell him something on the lines that you're sorry but you cannot (or rather, aren't required to) issue a refund later than 7 days of placing the order.

Had it been another circumstance I guess it would be an act of goodwill to oblige but to me this seems a pathetic way of getting a copy of your game for free.

[Kai Backman]

Have you double checked that he receives your emails? I called up a few people and it turned out they never received mails.

In general I agree with Mike and others. Just refund and move on. You want to do business with good and honest people.

[Mithril Studios]

As an aside, a possible alternative solution is to require the program be uninstalled and then invalidate the key.

You would need to have some form of server side verification and activation/deactivation.

I'm going to look into doing something like this - I want to give people a refund if they ask for it, but I dislike the thought of them stealing from me.

Anthony

[Rod Hyde]

This is the law in question: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm

--- Rod

[Redclaw]

We have one customer who has bought, and returned, every single game we have released- like clockwork.Just ask BMT to add his IP and email address to their block list. I've had to do that once or twice now.

As for my worst customer, that's an obvious choice: Jean. A customer so bad he didn't even buy the game! The series of events was as follows:


Day 1: Places a fraudulent order for the game with a stolen credit card. BMT catches it, so he doesn't get the game.

Day 1(later): Emails me to say he completed the demo and therefore is entitled to a free copy of the game.

Day 1(later still): Emails me again to say he really deserves a free copy as a reward for beating the demo. really really!

Day 2: Emails me pretending to be a customer that has lost his game file and needs a replacement (still using the same name and email as the day before...)

Day 2(later): Another fraudulent order attempt with another stolen credit card. Again, caught by BMT so he didn't get the game.

Day 3: Realizing he isn't getting anywhere with me, he decides to email BMT pretending he ordered the game but didn't get his file. Since he's not on my cutomer list, they gave him nothing.

Day 3(later): Emails BMT again, this time swearing and throwing insults around, demanding that they send him the game. Again, no dice.

Day 6: Emails me once again pretending to be a customer that has lost their file. Again using the same name and email address that he's been using all along. I begin to weep for humanity.

Day 51: See day 6...

Day 62: See day 6...

Day 94: ANOTHER fraudulent order attempt, with ANOTHER stolen credit card. This time though the evil genius had changed his email address slightly!!! But once again he was thwarted by BMT.

Day 107: "Hi, I'm a nice honest customer who has lost his game file. I really really did buy the game though so please send me the file again." Signed - Same guy, same email address.


Yes, this guy spent over 3 months trying to weasel himself a free copy of a $20 game... Day 107 (which was in December 2003) was the last time he tried, though I did get an email from him this April saying he thinks I should have a forum for some reason.

Probably so he can post in it to ask for his free game!

[cliffski]

well here we go:

I replied saying:

I don't understand. What has gone wrong?


He replies:

Please comply with my request immediately. Access code has not been used.

I do not have to give a reason for return of goods within this period.

- customer (svero edit)

what an asshole. I have replied basically telling him to f**ck off. I know you guys say just refund him, but this guy is a thief, or at least a rude arrogant idiot. here are his details:

(moderation note : removed personal details - svero - I think it's best that we don't share customer emails on the forums this way unless there is a long history of abuse, and maybe in that case we could allow it as a warning to other developers. I don't want the forums to run into any legal hassles down the road.)

I've just switched to plimus, so I dont want to hassle them so early by asking them about banning a customer... or should I?

[Linusson]

I can understand if you're upset, but I don't see the point in behaving like you do. Refund and forget, why even give him the oppurtunity to give you bad publicity? Don't you have a privacy statement that forbids you to publish his name and email?

[cliffski]

-- accidentally deleted -- Gist of the post was it's ok to reveal a customer who's ripping you off.

[MiCo Games]

Consider this: The guy places an order. Doesn't receive the game, waits patiently for a few weeks and then sends an e-mail to find out what's going on with his order. He gets a reply basically saying: it's not OUR fault, it's the payment company or your spam filter or whatever. He gets pissed off (rightly so or not, depending on who you ask) and decides he don't want to deal with the company. I fail to see how this (and to me it IS a just as believable scenario) would classify him as a thief, or how it makes it right to hang him out as such in a public forum.

[svero]

All the same I think we should refrain from sharing data like this on the forum. It can lead to legal hassles eventually. I have no love for the customer or what he did to you, but playing it on the straight and narrow is probably the best thing in the long run. I hope you understand my reasoning.

[cliffski]

fair enough.
the guy tried the demo, bought the game, got the code. maybe his own spam filter rejected it, or he deleted it. who knows.
but when he enquired, i have him a new code AND a free game.
then with no explanation he starts quoting the law to me.
Sorry but I have zero sympathy for this 'customer'. he is rude and arrogant.
you think Sony would have refunded him?

[EpicBoy]

Refund him. You've already spent more money than the game is worth by spending this much time dealing with him.

[Jason Colman]

Re Redclaw's story - whoa, that must be some game! It turns people into crack addicts!! :) Which game was it ?

[cliffski]

nope. I dont give refunds to people who are rude arrogant and behave in this way.
He is not getting his money back. I've refunded people in the past, polite helpfull people who could not get the game to run (despite there being a demo.. grrr). But not this time.

[princec]

Yeah, but he might just spread a little bit of evil around the internet about you, and it might one day cost you a sale or two in the end after all...

Cas :)

[EpicBoy]

I think if you remove the emotion from the situation, you would see that refunding him and moving on is the smart business move. But hey, it's your time and money...

[GBGames]

I would also side with the others. As frustrating as it is to think that someone may be ripping you off and getting away with it, it has to be more frustrating to sink the time into it without a ROI.

[Chris Evans]

Cliff, I've noticed in other threads not just this one that you get very emotional when you feel you've been wronged or see an injustice (like in those piracy threads). I recently had to talk with my wife about something similar. :)

She was letting little things totally stress her out needlessly. When our home was starting to become a mad house, I sat her down and we had a long conversation. I told how she needs to put those little things that bother her into perspective. Address the situation or problem, then move on. Don't dwell on it. To dwell on it, is not productive or healthy.

Maybe this particular post belongs in the Indie Life section, but the reason I wanted to share this with you is that it's not only good business to give the man a refund, but it's also good for your health and vitality to just move on. You're getting extremely angry and stressed over a situation that should have only been a minor annoyance. I personally see Redclaw's story as far worse. You just have to try to find ways to prevent the situation from happening again, then laugh at it and move on.

I recently watched a study on TV about people who lived to be over a 100 years old. One common theme among many of them that contributed to their long life was being able to let things go and not get stressed out over minor things. They were able to simplify their lives and focus their energies on things that really needed them. After watching that program, I re-examined my life to see if I was stressing out on things pointlessly. I realized I was of course. :)

[ggambett]

He is not getting his money back.
I think he is. If he is persistent enough he'll get a chargeback from the CC company and it will end up costing you more than a refund.

[cliffski]

hanks for the advice guys. I am going to see what happens. I havent had a reply frm the guy, and im not planning onr efunding him at this point. But I heed the advice not to get stressed about it.
I do get stressed by it because I am totally passionate about games. I've been wanting to make games and play games sicne I first had a home 'pong' console. To that end, I take the games I make very seriously, and have strong views about the industry. Its a double edged sword, the passion can give you aggression and stress (negative) but also ambition and motivation (positive). I sold antoher copy today anyway, so thats good news ;)

[sphinx]

As for my worst customer, that's an obvious choice: Jean. A customer so bad he didn't even buy the game! The series of events was as follows:...


Mark : Do not say he is from Greece :D
If yes then I had the exact same situation and he drove me totally crazy :confused: