What's it like in Canada? (Vancouver) [Archive] - Indiegamer Developer Discussion Boards

zoombapup

05-29-2008, 02:00 PM

While I was there, it struck me as being quite similar to the US (large streets, big buildings), but very much like the weather in the UK.

The thing is, there is space. You know, that thing we dont have any left of in the UK. Getting a visa to go and work there is CONSIDERABLY easier than the US too.

It reminds me a lot of Oregon and the Pacific Northwest, having said that, I was in vancouver and that is only a few hours away from the PNW anyway.

Think forests+mountains+lakes+more forests+big american-looking cities.

Huge amounts of drugs in Vancouver though, which really turned me off.

AlexWeldon

05-29-2008, 03:58 PM

Well, Canada's a big country and so it's quite different from one place to another, but yes, probably the most defining feature of Canada is the amount of space... outside of the big cities, our population density is extremely low. You don't have to be a multi-gazillionaire to have a lakefront country home the way you would in Europe.

I can't tell you much about Vancouver... as I used to tell my students in Korea when they asked me why I'd never been there, the distance from Montreal to Vancouver isn't like Seoul to Gwangju (or London to Glasgow). It's like Seoul to New Delhi (or London to, I don't know... Baghdad or something).

I guess it's fair to say that we're like the States when compared to most other countries, but of course living here I see a lot of differences. Our attitude towards multi-culturalism is different, for one thing... one analogy that I've heard is that whereas the U.S. is a melting pot, Canada is a tossed salad. We're also a little more aware of global issues, on average... our media is a bit less biased, and our government a little more left wing. We eat better and don't have as much obesity. Better education system... public health care... etc.

Diragor

05-29-2008, 04:38 PM

Lifetime US citizen/resident here, spent almost a year in and around Toronto in 2003. I did notice the differences that AlexWeldon described - along with some that were not favorable to Canada, like much higher sales tax - but as far as daily life goes it was almost exactly like living in the US. There are lots of little differences, but generally if you're comfortable in the States you'll be just as comfortable or more so in Canada.

Ratboy

05-29-2008, 04:57 PM

Been there (Vancouver) twice; it was beautiful both times. It was also kinda grey and drizzly one of those times, but I like that kind of weather.

I'd like to live there at some point; lots of VFX houses I could hawk my skillz at.

Ryan Clark

05-29-2008, 05:10 PM

I live in Vancouver, and I think it's the best city on Earth (why else would I live here? :))

The weather is indeed similar to England's weather. Rainy, never too hot, not much snow. There are nice beaches, mountains (real mountains) you can ski on within a 1 hour drive, nice big trees, etc.

If you have any specific questions, drop me a line: (my first name) AT grubbygames.com

Grey Alien

05-29-2008, 05:47 PM

Hey thanks all for your feedback so far, this is really great! Keep it coming.

I love great scenery and space (and walks) so it's very appealing. I'd actually prefer warmer/sunnier weather than it sounds like it is there but it still sounds like a great place to live for a while at least! It's very expensive in England and it's an appealing thought to get a great house in a lovely location for not mega-bucks. It's good there's stuff like pubic health care (which I'm used to), and global awareness and a bit of "left-wingness" ;-) because again I'm kinda used to that in the U.K. Plus I could practice my French!

Anyone know what the schools are like (I've got two boys aged 7 and 4) and what crime is like? (much gun-crime?) Oh what's the speed limit as the U.S. 55mph limit seems soooo slow (it's 70mph in the UK on motorways and dual carriageways, and 60mph on normal roads unless it says to go slower). Is fuel cheap in Canada like in the U.S. btw? (this is not a major concern at all, just interested).

What's the Canadian national dish?

What's the basic rate of tax on earnings?

Thanks! (I'll ask more as I think of more...)

Diragor

05-29-2008, 06:27 PM

Plus I could practice my French!

You won't find many people speaking French outside of Montreal, which is about as far from Vancouver as you can get. (That's based on my experiences near Toronto and what I'm told by Canadians outside Montreal.) There's French text on just about everything in stores, though.

Frozen In Ice

05-29-2008, 06:52 PM

FlySim

05-29-2008, 07:03 PM

Oh what's the speed limit as the U.S.

The speed limit in the US is 65 mph on most Interstates, although its 80 mph in West Texas (sadly my van doesnt like to go that fast)

mooflu

05-29-2008, 08:24 PM

It reminds me a lot of Oregon and the Pacific Northwest, having said that, I was in vancouver and that is only a few hours away from the PNW anyway.

Huge amounts of drugs in Vancouver though, which really turned me off.

I live about 30km outside of Vancouver. The Pacific Northwest includes Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia so Vancouver is right IN the PNW i.e. it's really really close. :)

Drug use is quite bad, so it property crime. Violent crime is similar to Germany or UK. Average house price in Vancouver is approaching 1M. It's around 600K where I live. Greater Vancouver which includes Vancouver and a bunch of cities has a pop of about 2M. The Fraser river delta means there are bridges which means traffic congestion is quite bad during morning and afternoon rush hours. Gas prices are relatively cheap compared to Europe (~1.30 Can$/Litre). In BC the max Hwy speed is 90-110km/h.

More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Vancouver

I've lived half my life in Germany and the other in Canada. The metric system makes it feel European, but that's about it. I miss the bike friendliness of Germany. Canada is a country of immigrants and as such very diverse. There's a large Asian population in Greater Vancouver. If you like DimSum or Sushi, it's a good place to be.

Climate in Vancouver is moderate. Usually above freezing in the winter, low 20s in the summer. If you like the outdoors, it's the best place to be in Canada (I think). First class hiking, mountain biking, skiing, fishing, ...

Tax rate information see here:
http://www.taxtips.ca/marginaltaxrates.htm

Health care is better than in the US, but has degraded. Elective surgeries often have long wait times. It's still quite cheap compared to other countries, although I have no numbers to back this up.

Education system is ok. There are 2 universities in Greater Vancouver and another one on Vancouver Island. All three are quite good.

AlexWeldon

05-30-2008, 12:22 AM

You won't find many people speaking French outside of Montreal, which is about as far from Vancouver as you can get. (That's based on my experiences near Toronto and what I'm told by Canadians outside Montreal.) There's French text on just about everything in stores, though.

Not exactly accurate (speaking that it is). It depends where you are. For example, I'm currently in Northern Ontario and the majority here are French. Enter into Toronto (where I'm headed back to soon) and you have a wide variety of cultures and languages.

First of all, Quebec != Montreal. You'll find more francophones, especially unilingual francophones in the rest of Quebec than you will in Montreal. Montreal is the most anglo place in the province, though we certainly have a lot of francophones and bilingual anglophones here.

Second of all, Ontario != the rest of Canada. If you rephrase Diragor's post as "outside of Quebec and northeastern Ontario and parts of the Maritimes," or "in major cities other than Montreal and Quebec City" instead of "outside of Montreal," he's quite right. For most of Canada, the idea of "two official languages" is a quirk of our history rather than a practical reality.

Third of all, in Vancouver, you will get to practice your Korean much more than your French. :)

vjvj

05-30-2008, 01:14 AM

I've spent more travel time in Vancouver on business than one generally needs for a lifetime... LOL. Not that Vancouver sucks, just that I'd rather have spent that time having fun!

If you've been to Seattle, Washington, you'll have a good idea of what Vancouver is like (just with somewhat less rain). Good mix of suburban/urban without going extreme in either case, some cool downtown areas, and snow sports are a boon.

I would enjoy living there.

Note that marijuana use is "effectively legal" there (my understanding is that, in the worst case, a police officer will just tell you to put it out). I'm totally fine with that because I think pot is harmless, but if your viewpoint differs from mine you should take it into consideration. It wasn't uncommon to see people smoking pot in public. I just wanted to clarify because some people are using the term "rampant drug use" which is kinda broad. My idea of rampant drug use is the crack heads we see in urban CA. I don't remember seeing many crack heads in Vancouver :D

P.S. Tim Horton's never has a complete selection of bread on any given day, and sometimes they completely run out of bread. They have serious bread inventory issues. The reason I bring this up is because most of the "quicker" restaurants downtown (not necessarily fast food, but places like Steamrollers) close semi-early... So after a certain point in the evening your only food choices downtown are "real" restaurants or Tim Horton's. Or McDonald's (ewwww). So if you're expecting late nights at the office, learn to enjoy sandwiches and donuts! (Can you tell I worked in Vancouver a lot? :))

Grey Alien

05-30-2008, 01:55 AM

Some more great info, thanks! So maybe French is not on the cards that much. It's good to know that the main drug abusers are just stoned (i.e. pretty much harmless) and not on PCP or whatever...

Sounds like house prices are expensive! I was hoping they'd be cheaper, although we'd probably rent at first to get a handle on the place.

Tax sounds like it's a bit more than the UK if I understood that page correctly. Oh well, I'd just need to make sure I got paid more ;-)

Fuel sounds way cheaper for sure!

Frozen In Ice

05-30-2008, 03:31 AM

Second of all, Ontario != the rest of Canada. If you rephrase Diragor's post as "outside of Quebec and northeastern Ontario and parts of the Maritimes," or "in major cities other than Montreal and Quebec City" instead of "outside of Montreal," he's quite right. For most of Canada, the idea of "two official languages" is a quirk of our history rather than a practical reality.

Third of all, in Vancouver, you will get to practice your Korean much more than your French. :)

Oh I know Ontario != the rest of Canada ;) The point I was making was it depends on where you are as to what you what find. Each area of Canada has it's own unique culture and languages, not to mention geographical splendor, tax rates and problems. :)

vjvj

05-30-2008, 04:14 AM

Sounds like house prices are expensive! I was hoping they'd be cheaper, although we'd probably rent at first to get a handle on the place.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that housing prices are surprisingly high; approaching housing prices in California (which is on the upper end of the scale in the US).

On the random chance you're interested in info on Relic Entertainment, feel free to PM me :D

AlexWeldon

05-30-2008, 07:58 AM

Some more great info, thanks! So maybe French is not on the cards that much. It's good to know that the main drug abusers are just stoned (i.e. pretty much harmless) and not on PCP or whatever...

Well, I'm pretty sure I've heard that Vancouver has the worst hard drug problems in Canada. I think they're trying to clean it up now, but I think they still have some serious problems. However, I'd guess that it's like any other city with drug problems - that you see it more in some parts of the city than others, so as long as you're making a decent income and don't have a proclivity for "slumming it," you can probably avoid it. Of course, I'm completely talking out of my ass, not having been to Vancouver myself. However, I can tell you that "a dangerous part of town" by Canadian standards is not remotely the same thing as "a dangerous part of town" by American standards so I wouldn't be too concerned about finding yourself in the middle of a Most Wanted reality show.

Oh I know Ontario != the rest of Canada The point I was making was it depends on where you are as to what you what find. Each area of Canada has it's own unique culture and languages, not to mention geographical splendor, tax rates and problems.

Okay, I think we're all on the same page... we're all just over-generalizing a bit, which as you just said, is a problem when you're talking about a place like Canada. It sounded like Diragor was implying that Montreal was the only place in Canada where French is spoken and that you were implying that it's spoken everywhere, including Vancouver. I just wanted to clarify that neither of those things are true. For the OP to understand exactly where and why French is spoken, though, would require a lesson in Canadian history, which is outside the scope of this thread. :)

Bmc

05-30-2008, 10:29 AM

Cheapest cost of living would be in the Maritimes. I live in NB. It's a nice province. Not a lot of crime, near the ocean. Winters are mostly mild except for Jan-Feb. Summers are not too hot, but definitely warm (15-25 celsius). There are bigger cities and smaller farm communities.

The amount of cash that would buy you a shit shack in another province like BC would buy you a very nice house here.

Brand new semi-detaches currently go for 120k-160k where as you can get a new detached house for the 200k range.

Also, there are quite a bit of French people in the province, specifically in the city where I live. More up North even more so (but the winters would be colder :) )

Another nice province is PEI, it's a small island province. Beautiful landscape, lots of diversity (there is a large population of Japanese students that go to the university there) and they have a tax break for Game Dev companies.

Pyabo

05-30-2008, 12:40 PM

What's the Canadian national dish?

Surprised no one has answered this yet:

Poutine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine)

Sounds awful... Looks awful... tastes great. :)

Grey Alien

05-30-2008, 12:54 PM

finding yourself in the middle of a Most Wanted reality show
Lol. Yeah it's probably going to be fine as I don't hang out in dodgy areas + I've been doing Aikido for 11 years which may help. There's practically no crime where I live though (in the country).

Brand new semi-detaches currently go for 120k-160k where as you can get a new detached house for the 200k range. Wow sounds great! But it has to be in or near Vancouver (at the moment).

PoutineAha! thanks for the info. I'd try it without the chicken gravy (which is probably an integral part) because I'm vegetarian. Perhaps there's a vege equivalent?...

Ratboy

05-30-2008, 01:06 PM

Surprised no one has answered this yet:

Poutine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine)

Sounds awful... Looks awful... tastes great. :)

Hmmm, it has been a long time since I stayed in and ordered Canadian...

Jack Norton

05-30-2008, 02:28 PM

Aha! thanks for the info. I'd try it without the chicken gravy (which is probably an integral part) because I'm vegetarian. Perhaps there's a vege equivalent?...

Well you can use Seitan instead. Delicious and cruelty/antibiotics-free :D

Ryan Clark

05-30-2008, 02:39 PM

I'm vegetarian.
Are you aware that Vancouver is probably the most vegetarian-friendly place in the universe? I personally don't enjoy vegetarian foods, but tons of people here do...

As for some of your other questions:

Housing prices are very high. Definitely one of the most expensive places in Canada to live. And, unlike Toronto (where it's not cheap to live, but at least you'll earn more) wages here are not any higher to compensate for the high cost of living.

Most crime is theft, not much violent crime at all. Don't leave any valuables in your car! Other than that, you'll be safe.

Schools are good.

Taxes are high.

You'll probably hear as much French spoken here as you would in the UK.

Also: Don't listen to Bmc! I lived in Fredericton (near where he lives) and the winters + summers almost killed me! Had to flee back to Vancouver... Vancouver weather has made me soft. I can't stand snow, nor humidity.

lennard

05-30-2008, 04:40 PM

A very good friend lives in Fredrickton and I couldn't believe how long their winters last.

West coast winters are bad enough - up here in Terrace (~500 miles up from Van) the place is grey and dark early from Nov. until March. Spring and summer are amazing - it won't be dark here until after 10:30 PM tonight. Fall has it's own charms but you know winter is coming - this year I think I'll play ice hockey, maybe that will help.

Local real estate has surged - we are trying to unload the place we bought 2 years ago at 114K for 259K (lots of renovating). That's 3400 sq. ft. of house though - you could fit several Santa Cruz (or maybe even Vancouver) 500K houses inside of this one. Not cheap but still beats most places. Not nearly as many good restaurants as in Vancouver but the local super markets and bakeries are very good. If you like salmon then this is the place. Hrm, if you really like salmon and other seafood and don't need people then maybe the Queen Charlotte Islands would be your cup of tea.

Grey Alien

05-30-2008, 05:31 PM

Thanks for the vege info, it's good to know there's lots of options for me. I also like to buy "organic" food i.e. no pesticides, can you get that in Vancouver?

As for house prices, well it does have to be in or near to Vancouver so I'll just have to make sure I get paid enough ;-)

Backov

05-30-2008, 07:00 PM

Jack Norton

05-31-2008, 12:44 AM

All this interest in Vancouver all of suddenly is quite suspicious... I heard there's a good sushi restaurant called Big Fish just there, maybe that's the reason? :D

Grey Alien

05-31-2008, 02:06 PM

No comment.

Thanks Backov. I'll probably fit in with hippy central (except I'll stand out as super motivated ;-))

friendwaters

06-02-2008, 06:19 AM

too comfortable life is not good
suggest you go to some places like tibet,that will be a different Experience

Cartman

06-02-2008, 08:20 AM

I've never lived in Vancouver so I can't give you exact info, however I've been through there many times and I like the city. I find it similar to Seattle but I would say a little more congested. Great Asian restaurants (I'm told they are better than what we have in San Francisco). They have nice parks and great city views. Outside the city you can get to Whistler(site of the 2010 Winter Olympics) in about 2 hours. Seattle is about 2.5 hours south but the border crossings can be a few hours on weekends.

I have heard about hard drug use in the past but as someone else said they appear to be getting it under control. I heard a report a few years ago where they were talking to business people who were addicted to heroin. They would show up with the homeless every week to exchange their needles through a gov program. They said that none of their coworkers knew that they had a drug problem.

On the crime front I've always been told (by Canadians as well as Americans) that the rate of car theft in Vancouver was out of control. But I've never experienced it myself and don't have any research to back that up.

Hope this helps.

wazoo

06-02-2008, 09:15 AM

I live in Calgary (about 1.5 hours flight east of Van)

Since we're smack dab in the oil patch, housing prices are high but not as high as Vancouver.

We do have all the same "challenges" as a city the size of Vancouver, Montreal, etc, however just on a smaller scale. Despite the belief that everyone here lives in golden palaces, we still have drug problems, homelessness, unemployment, etc.

But it's still (so far) providing a decent quality of life for the fam, and the organic prices are (so far) manageable.

We're here mostly because my oldest has Autism and this is pretty much the better province to be in if you require help and services.

Spore Man

06-02-2008, 10:29 AM

Ugh... Poutine is NOT the Canadian "national dish". It's a fast food item that is super popular in Quebec (originiates from there), but outside of Quebec and parts of New Brunswick you can't even find it served with the proper cheese! :mad:

Vancouver is just way too expensive. Negotiate for a six figure salary and you'll do ok.

Grey Alien

06-02-2008, 12:50 PM

Negotiate for a six figure salaryOK, that'll be on my checklist ;-)

Thanks all for the extra info.

Sillysoft

06-03-2008, 10:54 PM

Vancouver is a great city. I moved here 2 years ago (from Montreal and Toronto before) and plan to stay.

Grey Alien

06-04-2008, 02:37 AM

Well if I move there, I'd love to have an Indie meetup!

Ryan Clark

06-04-2008, 04:42 PM

If you do move here, what's your ETA, Jake? I haven't met up with Dustin in a long time... overdue for a Vancouver meet up!

Grey Alien

06-05-2008, 01:24 AM

It would probably be October time, could be later, could be earlier, but that's what I'm aiming for.

Has anyone from Vancouver ever traveled down to Seattle for one of those meetups?

dankratt

06-05-2008, 01:37 PM

I'm not sure if we've met before but my name is Daniel Kratt at I'm the guy who designed Sally's Salon and Sally's Spa.

Anyways the company behind the Sally games not to mention the recently released CLUE Classic is GamesCafe and we're located in Calgary.

Just thought I'd say hi as it's rare to see anyone on here from Calgary!
Also, I'm not sure what you're up to but I should mention that we are looking for programmers.

Grey Alien

06-06-2008, 01:35 PM

So anyway I'm visiting on Sunday 22nd for a week and perhaps it would be good to meet with some of you.

Ryan Clark

06-06-2008, 02:20 PM

Tuesday the 24th or Thursday the 26th would be good days to meet up, for me.

Shall we try to rustle-up a Vancouver indie meet-up for one of those days?

Francis

06-06-2008, 04:30 PM

I'm in Vancouver as well, and I'd be interested in a meet-up. Any day would work for me. I'm a newbie in the indie scene though... but it would be great to meet you guys.

Sillysoft

06-07-2008, 03:20 PM

Thursday the 26th would work for me to come to a meetup. Let's do it.

Dingo Games

06-07-2008, 05:55 PM

I could do it on the 24th or 26th as well.

Grey Alien

06-08-2008, 03:52 AM

I'm actually flying into Seattle first and then going up to Vancouver on maybe Wednesday, so Thursday would be cool. I'll be with my partner, Helen, so I'll check with her that she's into it.

Ryan Clark

06-09-2008, 09:42 AM

Let us know if that works for you, Jake.

For you Vancouverites: You all ok with meeting up somewhere downtown, for dinner? Probably best to go somewhere relatively safe (food-wise) like Earls, I would think.

Grey Alien

06-09-2008, 11:38 AM

Yep we can make it, we'll be staying in the Yaletown area. What sort of food is Earls? I'm into Asian food because there's normally a big choice for vegetarians.

Ryan Clark

06-09-2008, 01:15 PM

You can see the menu on their site:

http://www.earls.ca/pdf/FullMenuCA.pdf

It's standard "Canadian food", I would say. Pretty much every restaurant in Vancouver has a fair number of veggie options, so you won't have to worry too much. We could go to an actual asian-food restaurant, but I would then worry that others might not find something they'd like. (Some people aren't into asian food, for some reason!) Earls is usually pretty good food, decent drinks, and has something on the menu to please everyone. (I hope!) If others have suggestions for restaurants instead of Earls, just let me know.

I've started another thread for the meet-up, here:

http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?p=163945

I'll see who else I can round up.

Grey Alien

06-10-2008, 12:52 AM

OK thanks for the menu. See you in the other thread.

Roman Budzowski

07-22-2008, 05:17 AM

Vancouver is just way too expensive. Negotiate for a six figure salary and you'll do ok.

Is it really that bad? I've been checking house prices in Poland and thought that if I have to pay over $300k to get one here maybe I should get one in the USA or Canada and enjoy cheap gasoiline, cars and highways (though it looks like Vancouver real estate is as overpriced as Poland).

cheers
Roman

Jack Norton

07-22-2008, 06:03 AM

300k usd for a house in poland? wow... must be in Warsaw center! ;)
Not sure about Poland, but indeed europe with the insane euro value is becoming a pain for indie devs... I hear lot of people are buying properties in USA. Indeed with the price of a modest house here in italy you can buy a villa with pool nearby washington :eek:

Roman Budzowski

07-22-2008, 06:36 AM

No, Jack. $300k can buy you a 120 m2 house that you have to finish (put all the stuff on floors and walls) and not in Warsaw, but in my less than 70k citizens city. It's insane.

cheers
Roman

RyanB

07-22-2008, 09:39 AM

Older house in Vancouver area
http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?PropertyID=7240942

Average downtown condo
http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?PropertyID=7228311

If you want to get something cheaper, you will have to commute or get something smaller. The further away from downtown, the cheaper it will be. You could get a decent house or condo for $500,000 if you lived 1 hour or more away from downtown (Langley or further out).

Rent for a 650 sq. ft. apartment will cost you between $1250 - $1500 downtown (cheaper in West End, more expensive in Yaletown). Commercial drive area used to be much cheaper but it's changing quickly.

Real estate inventory is building up quickly. Prices should drop significantly over the next few years.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=d1aa4b0e-e1db-41ee-8684-3352ae6f3096

Spore Man

07-22-2008, 09:53 PM

Is it really that bad? I've been checking house prices in Poland and thought that if I have to pay over $300k to get one here maybe I should get one in the USA or Canada and enjoy cheap gasoiline, cars and highways (though it looks like Vancouver real estate is as overpriced as Poland).
cheers
Roman
Vancouver is as expensive as it gets in Canada. Keep in mind, it's a very large country and pricing varies greatly from region to region, so your salary has to accommodate this too.