DROID ASSAULT released!

[princec]

Droid Assault's out! (Quietly does it, just a few forum spams first before the mailing list etc)

You can grab the demo from this page (http://www.puppygames.net/droid-assault/) for your respective OS.

Here's a screenie or 2 if you've not seen any yet:
http://www.puppygames.net/images/screenshots/droid-assault-screen-7.jpg
http://www.puppygames.net/images/screenshots/droid-assault-screen-1.jpg
http://www.puppygames.net/images/screenshots/droid-assault-screen-6.jpg

Yes, it's only $9.95 too.

Cas :)

[Jack Norton]

Awesome! but... why you went with the $9.95 price tag :confused:

[princec]

Just to see how it does in its early stages as an impulse buy. Already had one testimonial to that effect too (and 5 sales :) ):

Props for a good game design! For $10 it was an impulse buy after playing the demo. Its not often there is a single player game I think is worthwhile, but this one makes me happy.


Cas :)

[Jack Norton]

That's cool, seems it started well! :cool:

[berserker]

Cool!

This is your first game I actually enjoyed a lot and played up until demo expired. I think concept of capturing other bots is neat but you have to explain it because I was puzzled about when I was able to capture it and when not.

Also game graphics looks to dark and depressive to my taste but I assume this is your style.

[FlySim]

Nice, I will be digging out the credit card!

[Tertsi]

I really preferred the faster action Ultratron and alike. I uninstalled this after one play, it just didn't hit. Good thing that others don't seem to share my opinion about this game. :)

[princec]

Shame, you have no idea just how mental it gets :)

Cas :)

[Grey Alien]

Snaffled. Will you be affiliating this via BMC or Plimus or does it need a special build?

[princec]

BMT (product 18990018). Could do Plimus if I'm sufficiently hassled.

Cas :)

[Grey Alien]

Cool thx, I might post some news about it on Binary Joy and wanted a linkypoos.

Anyway, I like it. It's neat, like Ultratron and Paradroid rolled into one. Man you made that demo time out at a FIENDISH place ;-)

Are your other games on BMT without a custom build now? Dunno why I'm asking, I should just check...

OK now I'm confused. There's two Droid Assaults, which one is PC and which is Mac or are they different in some other way? (OK just checked and they have the same links right?) Also there's about 12 titan attacks and 5 ultratron. Which links should I use please? (Oh OK, so I use the cheaper ones, doh! ;-) (btw, I put Mac in my Holiday Bonus product title so it was obvious...). thx

[cliffski]

I'll be trying this, and hopefully selling it as an affiliate. good luck dude. but you are MAD to sell for $9.95. at least make it $14.95!

[AlexN]

Cas, just want to let you know it doesn't run on my Mac (OSX10.5.2) with Java 6. I'll switch to Java 5 and see if it works.

[Adrian Cummings]

I'll be trying this, and hopefully selling it as an affiliate. good luck dude. but you are MAD to sell for $9.95. at least make it $14.95!

This is a difficult area indeed now tho is it not - pricing?, I'm selling PC down at $7.95 online which as low as it gets for me when stuff reaches near end of line in my case and also given you can actually buy a lot of game on PS3/XBox store in digital form for around the same price now at the other end of the developer spectrum.

No offence but personally I think $9.95 is on the nose for princec's game in mass market reality really.

$14.95 to $19.95 everything or higher does not apply to all grades/types of software IMHO... sure some will pay it but many would'nt in the current climate for this type of game.

I stuck one of my last PC titles through a well known publisher in the last 6 months and they in turn released it at the now bog fixed standard of $19.95. Needless to say it's hardly sold at all - in fact I've sold many more than they have from day one after grading the software from $19.95->$14.95->$9.95->$7.95 over time in a 6 months period.

Different titles require different pricing approches I guess to shift them in any numbers to the consumer - not just to other fan developers on here perhaps :)

[Grey Alien]

I think it's a good price. The game is a neat retro affair, but it doesn't have a meta game and a long single player campaign that maybe people expect from a $19.95 game - it's just a well polished good fun short blast at an impulse buy price (same as two beers or a cheap DVD). Hopefully the Tomb game will be more involved and justify a $19.95 price.

[Grey Alien]

pimped it for you:

http://www.binaryjoy.co.uk/games/games-news/droid-assault-released/

[princec]

Cas, just want to let you know it doesn't run on my Mac (OSX10.5.2) with Java 6. I'll switch to Java 5 and see if it works.

Hmm, not entirely unsurprised. Need to ship with a DMG instead of a zip then I can symlink to the Java application launching stub provided with the JDK... but Mac is hundreds of miles away again, bah.

Cas :)

[princec]

Thanks for the p1mpage. $9.95 seems to be a good price point for it. And all our games for that matter.

Cas :)

[Grey Alien]

This game keeps on getting better, the later levels are tough but there are some robots with awesome firepower.

[elias]

Hmm, not entirely unsurprised. Need to ship with a DMG instead of a zip then I can symlink to the Java application launching stub provided with the JDK... but Mac is hundreds of miles away again, bah.

Cas :)

Make sure you use a recent lwjgl with x86_64 support compiled into the liblwjgl.jnilib, or else java6 on mac won't work.

- elias

[princec]

It's the latest of the 1.1.x series - surely that should work?

I suspect what it is is that the stub launcher that I've shipped isn't compatible.

Cas :)

[elias]

No, only the latest 2.0 is compiled with 64 bit support (a side effect of fixing mac os x 10.5 builds, since java 6 weren't out at the time).

- elias

[princec]

Drat! That's still in beta. I suppose I could try it out - I don't use FMOD or DevIL after all.

Cas :)

[mot]

Doesn't Info.plist in the Mac zip bundle include an entry that specifies the required Java version? Usually there's something like "1.4+" in it, what about changing it to "1.4" to force the older version?

[Agent 4125]

This is awesome. =) I will probably pick it up as soon as I have some free time to kill. Definitely a worthy successor to Paradroid.

[princec]

Doesn't Info.plist in the Mac zip bundle include an entry that specifies the required Java version? Usually there's something like "1.4+" in it, what about changing it to "1.4" to force the older version?Hm, spose I could... it doesn't rely on anything other than 1.4. I'll try LWJGL 2.0 tomorrow and see how that goes.

Cas :)

[Grey Alien]

Yeah it has that paradroid addictiveness but the fact that you don't totally die if you have other robots in your squad is a stroke of genius.

I had a few suggestions that would have made it even better for me:

1) An ability to transfer immediately to your other droids even when they are not in line of sight by pressing keys 1-8 for example. Sometimes after my main bot dies I get put in the body of a bot I don't want to control and I want to swap to another one instantly rather than having to go and find it (and sometimes they are hard to find). I can think of some good tactics I could use in such a situation. Perhaps it's OK to say you don't need to do the whole "transfer in line of sight" thing with droids already in your party as they are already under your control? Anyway, just thought I'd bring this up.

2) Walls that look solid. Later on there are holes in the floor you can fly over if you have a hover bot and you can shoot over them. The problem is that they look just like walls so I'm often confused between the two. If walls had some texture or plain colour or diagonal lines (think "thrust") this would make them look different from holes.

3) Would be nice to find out the stats on your current bot mid-level somehow. Perhaps via a little computer you can logon to.

4) Shop! Oh how I'd love to spend that money upgrading my droids between levels and healing the damaged ones.... I realise a shop is a big thing though to add to a game and it would affect gameplay, just thought I'd mention it.

5) Perhaps it would make it too easy but a map/scanner upgrade would be cool. You could also see your other bots on it if you needed to find them and seek them out to transfer to them.

6) Squad tactics. The other bots sometimes really help out, but other times they just get killed dumbly. Be great if you could say, "stand still", "follow me", "defend me", "attack nearest enemy", etc.

7) Ability to blow up mines somehow other than rolling over them!

8) Escape should bring up an in-game menu with "resume game" and "save and exit" instead of immediately exiting and saving.

9) Mouse click to resume from pause. Pause and Unpause is P, but often I pause mid action (due to family interruptions) and I have to press P to resume then quick move my hand to the mouse whilst I'm getting shot at - and that one second of hand movement is just too long ;-)

[princec]

1) An ability to transfer immediately to your other droids even when they are not in line of sight by pressing keys 1-8 for example.
That's already implemented - use Q/E or PgUp/Dn or the mousewheel. It feels a bit random mind.

2) Walls that look solid.
Under consideration.

3) Would be nice to find out the stats on your current bot mid-level somehow. Perhaps via a little computer you can logon to.
Thought about that but couldn't see it fitting in with the fairly frantic live action (you'd typically step on a terminal shooting by accident and the action would suddenly stop, probably by accident).

4) Shop! Oh how I'd love to spend that money upgrading my droids between levels and healing the damaged ones.... I realise a shop is a big thing though to add to a game and it would affect gameplay, just thought I'd mention it.

5) Perhaps it would make it too easy but a map/scanner upgrade would be cool. You could also see your other bots on it if you needed to find them and seek them out to transfer to them.

6) Squad tactics. The other bots sometimes really help out, but other times they just get killed dumbly. Be great if you could say, "stand still", "follow me", "defend me", "attack nearest enemy", etc.

That, I think, is for another game ;)

7) Ability to blow up mines somehow other than rolling over them!Maybe :) I quite like the fact they're a PITA.

8) Escape should bring up an in-game menu with "resume game" and "save and exit" instead of immediately exiting and saving.
Maybe one day will do this for all my games (it's part of the base classes)

9) Mouse click to resume from pause.Best way to pause is simply to alt-tab away from the application, then mouse click resumes. P was a safety catch sort of pause.

Cas :)

[Adrian Cummings]

LOL can't be arsed then more like? :)

Thing is you slave over a game for months and months, test it, beta it, test it some more, publish it here and there and make some sales then some bugger always comes along later and says yeah but you could add this that and the other then I might buy it or you would sell even more mate.

Save it all for you next game is a good idea else you'd never get anything out the door if you listen to what 'everybody' wants in this world.

I've done that for 20years and I'm still here so there is only so much listening you can do to please the wants of others in this short life LOL :)

[princec]

Yeah, made that mistake with Alien Flux and Super Dudester, ruined 'em both.

I'm off to write an actual casual game now, w00t!

Cas :)

[dma]

I think $9.95 could eventually become a pretty common price point for casual games, and I think Cas is wise in choosing it. There are just too many games on the market, and more are coming every day. Going to Amazon, I can pick from a great number of multi-million-dollar-budget PS2, PC, Xbox, etc, games for $19.99 or much less. Even the complete boxed set of Sam & Max is only $17.99 right now. Should a basic match-3 or other casual type downloadable sell for more? I think, unless the production values are out of this world, that those days are passing fairly quickly.

So, it's kind of obvious why sales of pretty much all games (except the new mega-blockbusters) are falling right now. There's just too many entertainment choices out there, (iTunes will be distributing movies soon on their theatrical release dates), and not enough time or money to buy them all. But when prices fall to $9.95 or less, it's much easier to get the credit card out. Of course, the game still has to be great. But with all the entertainment choices people have today, not to mention all the free stuff one can play on the Internet, it's getting harder and harder to justify the higher $19.95 "standard." And I think potential customers, if they haven't already realized that, are going to start doing so fairly soon.

[princec]

I think $9.95 could eventually become a pretty common price point for casual games, and I think Cas is wise in choosing it. There are just too many games on the market, and more are coming every day. Going to Amazon, I can pick from a great number of multi-million-dollar-budget PS2, PC, Xbox, etc, games for $19.99 or much less. Even the complete boxed set of Sam & Max is only $17.99 right now. Should a basic match-3 or other casual type downloadable sell for more? I think, unless the production values are out of this world, that those days are passing fairly quickly.

So, it's kind of obvious why sales of pretty much all games (except the new mega-blockbusters) are falling right now. There's just too many entertainment choices out there, (iTunes will be distributing movies soon on their theatrical release dates), and not enough time or money to buy them all. But when prices fall to $9.95 or less, it's much easier to get the credit card out. Of course, the game still has to be great. But with all the entertainment choices people have today, not to mention all the free stuff one can play on the Internet, it's getting harder and harder to justify the higher $19.95 "standard." And I think potential customers, if they haven't already realized that, are going to start doing so fairly soon.

The only problem with it all is... that $9.95 is such a pathetically small amount of money to share out between BMTMicro, me, and Chaz, and any affiliate. We have to make 30 sales a day just to reach minimum wage income in the UK. Needless to say we make about 3, nor 30.

Cas :)

[Adrian Cummings]

Well as I said I'm down at US$7.95 but at least my online partner pays out at 75/25 split in the developers favour on PC so I still make UK£2.99'ish per copy which is a lot more than you make on PC budget retail - given UK£2.99 is budget RRP pretty much anyway.

I was amazed at how much game you can get on XBox/PS3 Store online for next to nothing these days not to mention AAA titles for next to sod all on Amazon etc. now.

The market is not shifting moreover it has shifted!, hence why ad-wrap has also become an newer option alongside the paid downloads for me.

Getting harder by the year that's for sure now everything is digital 'want/have it now' pretty much.

[dma]

The only problem with it all is... that $9.95 is such a pathetically small amount of money to share out between BMTMicro, me, and Chaz, and any affiliate. We have to make 30 sales a day just to reach minimum wage income in the UK. Needless to say we make about 3, nor 30.

So basically if you just get 10x more traffic to your site, you can get those 30 sales! ;)

But yeah, I know what you mean. It's just that there's too many entertainment choices out there. It would be nice if the standard casual game price could be $49.99. But successfully selling a typical casual game at that price is about as likely as everyone being civil and polite in threads on religion. (Or politics, or on whether badminton is more fun than croquet.....)

So as I alluded to above, it all comes down to how many people you can get to download your game. Get 1 download a day and you might get 1 sale every 3 months. But get 5,000 downloads a day, and you could potentially get those 30 (or more) sales. See how easy it is to make minimum wage? ;)

[princec]

So basically if you just get 10x more traffic to your site, you can get those 30 sales! ;)

But yeah, I know what you mean. It's just that there's too many entertainment choices out there. It would be nice if the standard casual game price could be $49.99. But successfully selling a typical casual game at that price is about as likely as everyone being civil and polite in threads on religion. (Or politics, or on whether badminton is more fun than croquet.....)

So as I alluded to above, it all comes down to how many people you can get to download your game. Get 1 download a day and you might get 1 sale every 3 months. But get 5,000 downloads a day, and you could potentially get those 30 (or more) sales. See how easy it is to make minimum wage? ;)
Even with a brand new release of something that looks visibly original, with forum spamming, a press release through gameproducer.net, and blitzing every download site in PromoSoft, we've barely had a blip of traffic. What's up with that? 5,000 downloads a day is simply unachievable from where we're standing.

Cas :)

[Adrian Cummings]

So as I alluded to above, it all comes down to how many people you can get to download your game. Get 1 download a day and you might get 1 sale every 3 months. But get 5,000 downloads a day, and you could potentially get those 30 (or more) sales. See how easy it is to make minimum wage? ;)

That is kind of what ad-wrap offers - massive draw in of players hopefully increasing paid sales into the bargain - but if you are on mostfun.com you might see it's not quite working like it should as compared to other formats :P

There is no quick fix answer that is the answer - I've tried them all now and all you have is 'hope' really, hopefully a decent enough game, some good distribution and a bit of luck of course like the rest of us.

My content as a total is getting around 40,000 downloads a month but that is 'adwrapped' across the board and if I had a $ for each download I would'nt be posting on here would I, instead that equates to approx 'not a lot!' in adwrap revenue monthly as a total which is better than a few paid sales here and there alone which I also get now and then from those 40K downloads. That is at least superb distribution on par with some of the big titles even if I don't turnover the profit they do.

Ad-Wrap is not the answer no, but it is a supplemental income stream alongside everything else that pays - I for one am pleased to have it but perhaps some of it could be better that's all.

Not an easy life this.

[Grey Alien]

re: improvements. Glad about 1 thanks. 8 and 9 should be p*ss easy to do and would benefit future games. Of course save all the other stuff for Droid Assault 2! :-) (possibly except for no.2 which would be nice in this game). Naturally I realised that you'd never put all this stuff in this game which is "done" but I can't resist offering new ideas for possible improvements. No doubt you had a massive list anyway but just had to get it out the door. We've all been there!

[Jack Norton]

OT, but since some of you spoke about that... I don't think $9.95 will become common price, expecially with the crap usd value right now.

There is lot of choices on the market, and that's true, but from my point of view the hardest thing is to get A SALE. Then for the user paying $10 or $20 doesn't matter much as long as he wants the game.

If you think about it yourself, how many movie/cd/games you bought because "well was cheap" even if you actually didn't like it so much? What I mean here is that the really hard thing is to convince the person to go through the payment process, not to spend 5-10$ less...

Low price can be good to increase the user base. In my experience lowering prices never lead to more sales though, instead increasing game value worked extremely well. I don't make casual game but I think this could apply to casual games too.

[Grey Alien]

Still OT, yeah that is definitely a factor. When a thing reaches a certain low price I simply don't care because the time consuming thing is buying it and entering my credit card details then registering the game properly (AND adding it to my company accounts as "research"). So it's definitely worth making sure that people will buy the game because the product is simply worth the extra money.

However, there's a whole load of evidence to show increased sales at a lower price too as some people in just this thread have attested too (and as the entire BFG Game Club seems to prove). The question is are the sales over double when you half the price? Otherwise it's clearly not worth it.

My own experience with Droid Assault was that I played the demo twice (or maybe it was three times) and it timed out in the boss fight and I wanted to see more and at $9.95 I thought "why not?" because it was good fun. However, if it was $19.95 I may not have done it. BUT if the demo went beyond the first boss and timed out around level 15, I almost certainly would have paid $19.95 because I'd have seen more of the higher up droids and weapons and become more addicted (Basically I changed my opinion of the game as a quick little blast to a well balanced thoughtful game with lots of hidden depth/tactics).

So I'm saying that personally I think the demo ends too soon. I appreciate it's a tricky thing to work out as currently it's at 1/5th of the way into the game (in terms of levels) but actually the later levels contain lots more playability (and replayability) in terms of time plus more depth which is basically worth more money to me. That's my $0.02 anyway.

[Adrian Cummings]

Quote: Jack Nortons last post:

Well that pricing argument is as old as the game industry itself and just isn't true anymore from my angle anyway when applied to all types and grades of games.

A good new title might be worth say $19.95 for a few months maybe longer, but over time the software's value will decrease like everything else as better products replace it (and piracy).

We have a credit crunch here in the UK at the moment and most savvy people are not going to pay $19.95 for an indie game anyway - hey they may not even spend $9.95 but there is more chance they 'possibly' will perhaps now.

Then there is mostfun.com (you can get alot of games on there for nothing!) you can't really top that sorry - ok it needs to take off a bit more I agree but you can't top $0 for a product - some of them are/were previous big sellers also.

Sorry but I just don't share the $19.95/99 everything mentality anymore - it's dead or dying unless you are a big portal perhaps and not just selling direct to the consumer.

None of what I've said above applies to affiliation of big portal products, rather just selling your own content direct and yes I know there are few on here that do make larger revenue at the higher price end but seriously doubt they are the 'majority' amongst us.

[dma]

OT, but since some of you spoke about that... I don't think $9.95 will become common price, [...] Low price can be good to increase the user base. In my experience lowering prices never lead to more sales though, instead increasing game value worked extremely well. I don't make casual game but I think this could apply to casual games too.

Jack, you make some really good points. I think though, what with the world economy the way it is now, and with a lot of entertainment products out there, a lot of us are seeing falling sales, and are feeling a little insecure about it. But to tell the truth, you're right, if someone wants something, price doesn't matter. (To a point, of course.) When I sold my first shareware games in 1992 (prior to that, everything I sold was sold in stores), I had some amazing success, even though the number of people on the Internet was much, much lower than it is now. But the competition was lower then too.

I think one problem now though is that the average Internet user is used to getting a lot of things for free. (Flash games, freeware, etc...) So you better have something incredibly great or unique if you want to put a price tag on it. We're just going through an odd time right now, and I believe things may turn around in the future. After all, television went through the same things, with free network stations subsidized by advertising. And yet, there are still a lot of people willing to pay for premium products, like HBO, Showtime, etc.

I think the trick is not giving up. Of course, that's easier to say than to do. Sometimes, it might be wise to stop if things aren't working out, and there's no shame in that. Trying to do something difficult is more than the majority of people on this planet do.

One thing about not giving up... it may lead to other things one might not expect. So while Cas, or Adrian, or whoever else who may not be having the success they hope for at the moment, the work they are doing now could lead to better unexpected things that they would otherwise not have ever see.

As Adrian said, "Not an easy life this." Any artist or creative person knows exactly the same thing. Most movies lose money, and it's the 10% (if that) of the successful ones that keeps the studios alive.

Anyway, like I said, good points. As I told a friend of mine who owns a completely different business, sometimes we get what we "think" we deserve. So the answer, perhaps, is to think we deserve a great deal. After all, creating games is not easy work.

The most important thing though is that we're doing something we enjoy. Something that we feel we were meant to do. Of course, we have to make a living too. But not giving in to the "easy" path and becoming a banker or real estate agent, (although there's nothing wrong with those choices), says a lot about someone.

Van Gogh died thinking he was a failure. And yet, look at what people think of his work now. Success can't only be measured in dolllars. But in just trying.

[princec]

The most important thing though is that we're doing something we enjoy. Something that we feel we were meant to do. Of course, we have to make a living too. But not giving in to the "easy" path and becoming a banker or real estate agent, (although there's nothing wrong with those choices), says a lot about someone.
Well, I used to think like that but now I'm absolutely desperate for cash and suddenly it's not so romantic any more. I'm still not quite sure how to make a living out of this malarkey yet. Nothing I've tried yet has worked... but then that's probably because of the kinds of games I write.

Cas :)

[Grey Alien]

but then that's probably because of the kinds of games I writeRegrettably this could be true because the target market is a small bunch of retro gamers and maybe hardcore gamers who have to choose between your game and a mainstream console/PC shooter and a pirate game (and beer). So only the very best games are going to succeed in that demographic - and then what is their maximum potential anyway? But building up a loyal client list like you are doing (and Cliffski) is one step to maximising that demographic. Another factor is how quickly you can bang out quality games of course, the quicker the better (it terms of man hours worked), but that is not easy at all (I know this).

Anyway if you want to work on a more mainstream "casual" game and want some input from a local (I live in Dorset remember) then let me know!

[Jack Norton]

Surely selling games now is harder than 5-6 years ago, but what I meant is that the real challenge is increasing the quality/value of the games, rather than reducing the price.
Everyone is able to reduce prices, but few are able to really impress customers.

Then in caspian's special case, I really think his userbase is too small, or maybe now concentrated mostly on the consoles market.

I am willing to bet that your games would do very well on XBOX , Wii, etc... problem is getting there :o

[Grey Alien]

I agree with this:

Everyone is able to reduce prices, but few are able to really impress customers.

and this:

I am willing to bet that your games would do very well on XBOX , Wii, etc... problem is getting there

The question is how to get there cost effectively. I admit that I'm secretly interested in developing for XBLA because I *am* in Cas's target market (but at the moment diversifying would be foolish), and I'd be making games like his for PC if I could see a way to make it viable - but I can't, so I changed to a different type of game (which incidentally I have great fun developing anyway).

So Cas, I've guess you've got several options available 1) stick with what you are doing well at the moment and keep working on marketing + increasing userbase etc 2) seriously look into XBLA before it becomes flooded (is it already?) 3) change to a more casual type of game and get on some portals - I'm pretty sure your skills and your artist's skills could make a unique feeling casual game. 4) change revenue model to some kind of ad-driven thing or micro transactions (all that stuff makes me go yuk for some reason) 5) get another job ;-) but who'd want to do that? I'll be watching with interest (like I have since first seeing Titan attacks), good luck!

P.S. Sorry we've gone off topic but it's been interesting and hopefully useful for you.

[Bad Sector]

How about getting on Steam?

[Adrian Cummings]

How about iPhone? (no middle men just Apple!) sdk is free, signup £59... I just did myself!

Java is coming too (possibly) but you have OpenGL now on it which is cool enough for most game dev needs.

If you have a Mac (intel) your already half way there as the SDK (version 5 is out today!) comes with iPhone emulator of course.

Just an idea, as thats where I'm 'looking' now away from the WiiWare and XBoxLive SDK setup cost wheezes *even then if they signed you up anyway* which they prolly would'nt (no offence intended) on the later.

[princec]

Casual games - as it just so happens that's exactly what I've just started writing. It will, of course, be perfect ;) And with any luck ready in half the time of our other titles on account of just how little content actually needs to go into casual games.

Steam - I keep trying but get no replies.

iPhone - too many technical hurdles I suspect. I'm sticking to my guns and writing for the desktop.

Cas :)

[Grey Alien]

just how little content actually needs to go into casual gamesI assume you are joking, but if not, be careful because these days a casual game needs a ton of content to make it.

[princec]

I assume you are joking, but if not, be careful because these days a casual game needs a ton of content to make it.
None of the ones I've played seem to have all that much... especially the really successful ones.

Cas :)

[Adrian Cummings]

Hmmm I'm not so sure... 'casual games' are just games after all and that's what we all produce here and all games now have to have a certian amount of 'everything' in them before people buy them.

Casual is just a label for games that people play now an then on a casual basis and probably suitable for many age groups and both sexes perhaps... yes well that same 'label' could be applied to just about any game nowadays.

I like Battlefield2 on the Xbox360 for my sins and I play that on a casual basis now and then, it suits both sexes in truth, and has a quite wide age range but it's not classed as casual even tho it is to me at least.

Casual LOL is just another name for Game - games are games and good ones all take time to write and make money out of :)

I think portals invented the word for themselves in truth.

Some so called casual PC games go on for hours per play, so how is that casual then? :)

The problem here being perhaps Casual does not always equate to simple gameplay anymore given some casual games are quite complex to get the hang of.

A true casual game would be a mobile game I guess i.e. you play for minutes at a time and it's easy to get the hang of with 1 or 2 buttons.

[Grey Alien]

None of the ones I've played seem to have all that much... especially the really successful ones.Well they certainly didn't used to have much content, it was just a simple game mechanic with some nice graphics. But now you've got Story, map, Meta game(s), trophies, shops, powerups, mini-games, avatars, different game modes, tons of visual polish etc. If a game doesn't have those and is an oldstyle casual game with just a front screen and a game screen (like Bejwelled) it'll stand out a mile as not having enough content. People expect a LOT for their $6.95 these days imho ;-)

[princec]

Well they certainly didn't used to have much content, it was just a simple game mechanic with some nice graphics. But now you've got Story, map, Meta game(s), trophies, shops, powerups, mini-games, avatars, different game modes, tons of visual polish etc. If a game doesn't have those and is an oldstyle casual game with just a front screen and a game screen (like Bejwelled) it'll stand out a mile as not having enough content. People expect a LOT for their $6.95 these days imho ;-)

Do they really though?

Oh, and I noticed that Popcap still sell Bejeweled 2 for £14.95 - that's nearly $30!! Despite the fact it's got a tenth the content of Droid Assault. As a £-to-work ratio it seems that that's the formula to follow.

Cas :)

[Adrian Cummings]

Well give it a go as you say then, I'm on your side at the end of the day :) but I do agree the content bar on casual or any game is higher now than it was before if you want to start charging $19.95 or higher anyway or get on portals and bigger publishers.

My last 'casual' title Dweebs 3 (on PC) was a bit of a 'casual' flop all round it seems even tho it was quite good and 1 & 2 did very well before it, but I'm not bitter as not everything a dev puts out can expect to sell in decent numbers I guess.

In my case it was partly to do with games title saturation anyway on PC over 8 years.

Good luck anyway ok.

[papillon]

Oh, and I noticed that Popcap still sell Bejeweled 2 for £14.95 - that's nearly $30!!


Yes, but they only sell at that price to Brits. See several very long angry rants on my part when I've tried to buy casual games and found places cheerfully overcharging me because of where I live, leaving me forced to buy from portals.

[Grey Alien]

Do they really though?I personally believe that people do expect a lot these days in most cases, but sure some games buck the trend. Bejewelled 2 is just an old game that is still selling. What about the content in say Build-a-lot 2 or Dream Chronicles 2, or Cradle of Persia, or even Fairway Solitaire? Of course I still wish you the best of luck, but I don't want you to delude yourself about how much content (and how long) a good casual game takes these days...

[dma]

[...]Nothing I've tried yet has worked... but then that's probably because of the kinds of games I write.

... and the fact, as I've mentioned before, that there are just too many entertainment choices out there right now. (And with every new game coming out on a daily basis, it's only getting worse.)

In the early to mid-90s, you probably would have had a great deal more success. I have customers from back then that I know by name, basically because they are still repeat customers... 16 years later. Pretty amazing, actually. There was a different audience then, and there wasn't all the free stuff you find now on the web. Many people probably don't even consider buying games at all anymore, (except for perhaps the "latest greatest" next-gen console game), since they can go to any number of free Flash game sites or choose from a healthy number of free MMORPGs like Maple Story to play.

This is a tough business, and the only way to have a chance of succeeding is to keep at it. But like any creative endeavor, even "keeping at it" can't guarantee success. Just think of all the authors, cartoonists, indie film makers, artists, garage bands, actors, photographers, etc, who keep trying but may never make it. They might have exceptional talent, but the odds are stacked against them, given the huge amount of competition each field has.

So, encouraging stuff, huh. The best thing to do is diversify, and don't rely on any one source for your income. That way, if game sales are slow, at least you can bring in money from one (or more) other sources.

Anyway, good luck to you on your new (and upcoming casual) games! :)

[JGOware]

Today it's a battle of advertising more than ever. Alot of good games don't sell because no one knows about them.

[princec]

Today it's a battle of advertising more than ever. Alot of good games don't sell because no one knows about them.

Indeed. In fact we've had a risible number of downloads in the last 5 days - a mere 293 downloads. This is despite a press release, spamming a bunch of forums, and PromoSofting it to about 300 download sites - this is probably the worst ever release we've done. Having said that it's managed 29 sales, 10% CR. Not too bad there then. But it does seem as if exposuire is now absolutely the biggest problem we face.

Cas :)

[electronicStar]

Cas, I'm not an expert in the indiegame business,but IMHO in the game creation department you're doing fine. Your games are great, perfectly serving their niche, and the rate of new releases is good (and I think you should maybe make a bit of market research and investigate about game sales on portal before experimenting with casual games, especially when today's succesful portal casual games incorporate as much content as AAA games from 10 years ago and other simpler titles have a reputation of having low sales).
I think maybe now what you should do is try to devellop your "shop front", ie create a recognizable brand and capitalize on it, try to attract new customers, expand your site to have an audience that will come not only to check if you have released a game (maybe include social activities), increase your catalogue with similar develloper titles,etc...
It's difficult to tell you exactly what to do, you have to take initiatives here.
Maybe this is standard business stuff and you could find ideas in business books.

[dma]

Indeed. In fact we've had a risible number of downloads in the last 5 days - a mere 293 downloads. [...] Having said that it's managed 29 sales, 10% CR. Not too bad there then. But it does seem as if exposuire is now absolutely the biggest problem we face.

10% CR is excellent. Don't give up. It seems the only hurdle you have, as you already seem to realize, is exposure. Damn, at my earlier post of you getting 5,000 downloads per day, at 10%, you'd be grossing $149,250 (US) per month. That's only slightly more than minimum wage. ;)

[Grey Alien]

Yeah great CR dude! I find that those shareware download sites (I use a submission service for $30) normally get me a reasonable number of downloads so I hope that pans out, because at 10% you should be doing great if you can get 10,000+ downloads. Maybe arrange a competition and make another press release? Have you talked to any PC mags yet about a little feature? And how about getting it reviewed on Game Tunnel? I've tried to send people your way, I emailed 400+ (but some of them are not the target market). Are there any computer game shows on TV anymore? How about trying to get shown on that!

[princec]

Yeah great CR dude! I find that those shareware download sites (I use a submission service for $30) normally get me a reasonable number of downloads so I hope that pans out, because at 10% you should be doing great if you can get 10,000+ downloads. Maybe arrange a competition and make another press release? Have you talked to any PC mags yet about a little feature? And how about getting it reviewed on Game Tunnel? I've tried to send people your way, I emailed 400+ (but some of them are not the target market). Are there any computer game shows on TV anymore? How about trying to get shown on that!

I suspect a lot of that 10% were fans. Give it a bit of time and it'll settle back down to our usual CR of about 2-3%.

Cas :)

[Dan MacDonald]

Grats on the release Cas, it's great to see how far it's come :D


( I think you nailed the capture mechanic too )

[Nikster]

Cas, have you ever approached "retrogamer" magazine ? they tend to have several pages devoted to new-retro games, might be worth seeing if you can get in there.

[Grey Alien]

just read this on a James C. Smith blog:

Reflexive had one unique release this week which was Ultratron

Cool, hope it does well for you via Reflexive! Noticed it's still $9.95 on there too even though one comment seems to think it's $19.95, doh! (wondered if the 5 star comment was yours too ;-))

[princec]

Cool, hope it does well for you via Reflexive! Noticed it's still $9.95 on there too even though one comment seems to think it's $19.95, doh! (wondered if the 5 star comment was yours too ;-))

Early days yet for Ultratron on Reflexive, but let's just say it was cracked and warezed (after 5 years without) before it got even a single sale :( We changed the price on Reflexive in line with our own price changes for the launch of DA.

Cas :)

[princec]

Cas, have you ever approached "retrogamer" magazine ? they tend to have several pages devoted to new-retro games, might be worth seeing if you can get in there.

Yes - should be something appearing soon!

Cas :)

[ToadTrip]

I've always really liked what Puppygames has been doing Cas. The look of your website is fantastic and the games really smooth. I thought Titan Attacks was excellent to. I'd definitely have to reiterate what the other guys have said here that exposure is probably your biggest problem. Keep at it!

[princec]

We're working on the exposure thing...

Cas :)

[320x240]

We're working on the exposure thing...

Cas :)
I started a thread on your game over at the 'shmups.com' forum. The shmup community ought to support indie developers that concentrate on shmups; especially when they actually make games as good as yours. Keep up the good work.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=22992


Edited to add that you could submit your game to http://shootthecore.moonpod.com/ and have it listed in the 'pc database' there.

[princec]

Why, thank you :)

Cas :)