Last time I buy through BMT Micro

[Sammgus]

Basically when I decide to buy an indie game by credit card for download, I want to be playing it in the next 5 minutes. I don't want to see this crap:
Thank you for your order!

Your order has been received and will be reviewed by a BMT Micro representative shortly.

This is simply an email confirming that your order was received properly and is in the first stages of being filled.

This does not mean that your payment has been processed or that your order has been approved.

If you placed your order using an anonymous email account such as hotmail.com your order will be reviewed
by a customer service representative prior to being completed.
So they actually have someone manually reviewing these orders? With an additional check on webmail accounts? Is there any advantage to the customer by not providing a download link immediately? Are these kinds of security precautions necessary for such small payments?

Personally I'm not impressed, and I wouldn't be surprised if other consumers think twice before signing up to wait for an indeterminate length of time before getting their game - my weekend is running out..

[princec]

Actually, yes, they really do have someone that checks the orders individually for fraud first time around. Probably why I've never had a single chargeback or fraud from BMT, ever. Why didn't you give them a proper email account?

Cas :)

[Maupin]

I actually had the same thing happen to me when using Plimus (about a year ago). It was 10 hours later before my order for Galcon was approved, and I wasn't using a free email account. Made me remember not to use them in the future. (Not that I buy a ton of games, but still.)

Why didn't you give them a proper email account?

Easily 90% of the games sold through Game Socks are to free web email accounts: Yahoo, Hotmail/MSN, Gmail, etc. Isn't it pretty much the same everywhere?

If you're giving the majority of your customers a bad first impression at the checkout, I bet you're driving away a lot of your possible repeat business.

[Jack Norton]

FYI, the very same thing can happen if you buy through Plimus, Regnow, Reflexive, and any other online vendor.

In a "ideal world" where nobody tries to cheat/steal, you could have the game instantly without any control check. Blame the thieves that forces online vendors to take such countermeasures, not the vendor themselves... :o

[Jack Norton]

Easily 90% of the games sold through Game Socks are to free web email accounts: Yahoo, Hotmail/MSN, Gmail, etc. Isn't it pretty much the same everywhere?

Yes, and for your site gamesock you use Reflexive. That's why I often receive such email from people that bought from me an affiliated game from Reflexive:

Hi I have buil Build-a-lot by paypal a few hours ago through Reflexive site, and havn't had the code through yet. when can i expect it?

don't think that vendor XYZ is crap, while vendor ABC is great. If you use free email and a vendor didn't do a check was just random.

[papillon]

I get the occasional email from someone complaining that they haven't received their code yet, but in almost every case* by the time I get their email and reply to them, they HAVE gotten their code.


* - The exception being an order that was reviewed and declined and the person didn't even write to me to ask what was going on until several days later.

[OremLK]

This happened to me when I bought through BMTMicro as well. It's kind of irritating, I guess, but I think it only happens if you use a webmail account, which they warn you about on the (default) order page.

[Sammgus]

Actually, yes, they really do have someone that checks the orders individually for fraud first time around. Probably why I've never had a single chargeback or fraud from BMT, ever.
Well that's great for the seller, but it's of no benefit to me as a buyer. I have to wait and keep checking my email because my payment info might be bogus. But the worst a fraudster could do in this case is acquire $23 of software, which costs virtually nothing to serve as a download. So why am I waiting when I value my time?
Why didn't you give them a proper email account?
Well that's the only email I use regularly outside of work - I'm guessing a lot of people use webmail accounts as their main account. And I didn't see any warning about webmail accounts either.

I guess my real beef is that they don't give me a clue about when I'm going to receive my download link. Could be in 5 mins, 1 hr, 2 hrs, who knows? It's just not very customer-friendly.

[Jack Norton]

But the worst a fraudster could do in this case is acquire $23 of software, which costs virtually nothing to serve as a download. So why am I waiting when I value my time?

No, doesn't work this way - if the vendor discovers in time (usually 30-60days) the fraudolent order, can give refund and this effectively costs very few money to the developer. If more time passes there are VISA/MASTERCARD chargeback fees, which varies from vendor to vendor but are usually minimum $15 per item.
Imagine if they did no check, and someone buys 10 games priced at $5.99. All frauds, the developer would have to pay $150.

Not a very good experience :eek:

Also as I said, you were an exception, and not the rule. Usually everyone that buys from Plimus, BMT, etc receives the code within few minutes. Just bad luck in your case, but is true that at least they could give an estimate, like "you'll receive your code within XX hours".

[OremLK]

Well that's the only email I use regularly outside of work - I'm guessing a lot of people use webmail accounts as their main account. And I didn't see any warning about webmail accounts either.


This is from the default order page BMTMicro supplies its vendors (mind you, the page can be changed, but then I guess it's the vendor's responsibility to warn). Emphasis mine.

Please fill out the information below, as it appears on your credit card, so that we can process your order. Fields marked with * are required to complete your order. Anonymous (free) email services such as hotmail.com, yahoo.com, etc. are subject to extended fraud checking and may delay your order.

[GeneralGrant]

It was 10 hours later before my order for Galcon was approved
I had the same experience buying GalCon, actually, and was annoyed by it. In fact, I did cancel my Plimus order after a few hours but when I finally got the code I didn’t bother following through on it.

[ChrisP]

Ha, you think that's annoying? Plimus does phone confirmations. I was in the US for GDC when I bought Aquaria, and I guess they must have flagged an Australian credit card being used from the US as suspicious... cue the game of "phone tag".

Eventually (after, like, 3-4 days) they just gave up and approved it anyway. Then I had to get Alec to reset the download for me because I waited until I was back in Australia to download it, and apparently Plimus download links only last for 24 hours, but that's another story.

The upshot is, I'm sticking with BMT Micro for the foreseeable future. :rolleyes:

In all seriousness, other posters are correct in saying that this is par for the course. I've had people report problems ordering through BMT Micro, which sucks, but what am I going to do? Ask BMT not to do any fraud prevention?

It's enough to make one give up on the try/buy model altogether and get into in-game advertising...

[Jack Norton]

It's enough to make one give up on the try/buy model altogether and get into in-game advertising...

If it was happening even only in the 5%-10% of cases, for sure. Luckily doesn't, at least in my case :p

[Sybixsus]

Ha, you think that's annoying? Plimus does phone confirmations. I was in the US for GDC when I bought Aquaria, and I guess they must have flagged an Australian credit card being used from the US as suspicious... cue the game of "phone tag".
Yeah, I've had a few complaints about that, although there's no way to tell how many people aren't complaining. One of them was a good friend and I know for sure that she wasn't doing anything even slightly unusual like buying from the US with a credit card from another country. She buys a lot of stuff online and it was the first time she's ever been phoned up. I wouldn't mind if Plimus was actually really good at cutting out fraud, but the fraudulent orders plummeted when we switched from Plimus to BMT.


It's enough to make one give up on the try/buy model altogether and get into in-game advertising...
How depressing. I'd rather give up the games altogether and get into selling cosmetics door to door than that. I hope that's not really where we're all headed. I take your point though.

[Maupin]

Well, against my better judgement I just purchased another game through Plimus... and of course yet again the order was put on hold until Plimus could verify I really placed the order. Paid with Paypal from a non-free email account. Verification turned out to be a phone call 45 minutes later.

Wow. I must say, the Plimus phone call confirmation (which I could barely understand at first - thought it was a telemarketer) was one of the creepiest computer voices I've ever heard. Really left me with a bad impression.

So I vow never, ever, ever to buy another game through Plimus. I don't care how much I want it.

[Sybixsus]

Well I've had to buy a lot of things through Plimus, but I'm glad that's never happened to me, because I think I'd probably react the same way. I'm not surprised though because a lot of people, not all customers, have told me more or less the same thing, right down to the bad impression and creepiness about the phone call.

[Tertsi]

PayPal doesn't manually verify those orders and whoever does, simply can't afford a proper AI-based verification solution. There's no data there that AI couldn't easily verify.

[zoombapup]

Has anyone tried the google payment processing service thingy?

I've tried it as a customer and it was pretty easy. Just wondering what it works like as a developer.

[dma]

I have to wait and keep checking my email [...] So why am I waiting when I value my time?

I've found that the sort of people who really value their time, don't waste it playing games. Or spend copious amounts of time on discussion forums either, for that matter. ;)

Seriously though, (sort of), I understand that people today tend to want everything RIGHT NOW. That whole "patience is a virtue" thing is a farce, and it's a good thing it went out of style long ago.

Yeah, I'm just trying to start trouble. Bah, humbug.

[MindToy Games]

Seriously though, (sort of), I understand that people today tend to want everything RIGHT NOW. That whole "patience is a virtue" thing is a farce, and it's a good thing it went out of style long ago.

Boy is that true...I remember one customer went crazy, sent 3 e-mails and threatened to sue me for fraud...because he hadn't received his download e-mail after 11 minutes. Jeez, valued customer, a little patience maybe? :)

[dma]

Boy is that true...I remember one customer went crazy, sent 3 e-mails and threatened to sue me for fraud...because he hadn't received his download e-mail after 11 minutes. Jeez, valued customer, a little patience maybe? :)

I still would have sued you, for 11 million dollars. 1 million for every minute I had to wait. Because my time is extremely, exceedingly valuable. As was his, I'm very sure.

But anyway, he missed out on a golden opportunity to make an easy 11 million. What a sucker. But someday, your day will come, from someone who's a little more savvy about what their time is worth. So you better send out those download emails at least 30 seconds BEFORE the customer places their order.

Just a friendly warning. ;)