To grad or not to grad?

[BigZaphod]

As of today I am seriously considering going back to school for a masters in CS. In fact, I want to do it for next semester if I decide to go back. Very tight schedule, but the person I contacted at the school said it should be possible if I can get everything done before the end of the year. (Yikes.. GRE.. rusty!)

Mostly this is because my contract is ending and I will be out of a job at the end of the year. (Stupid budget cuts.) Plus, my fiancee goes to the school I'd go to and I'd be an hour and a half closer to her. :)

I guess I was just wondering what people's opinions are about that. How many of you folks got a masters (or higher)? Did it help/hurt your careers or not really matter?

In truth I really would love to pull things together and do some indie game development and try to make that my full time job. (Doesn't everyone? :D) However, in reality, there's just no way to do that quickly enough--especially given my lack of experience and all that. ;) So, I figured that perhaps I can go back to school, be closer to my girl, get some more learnin', and also work on games on the side and try to turn that into something.

[monco]

I did not go back after my CS bachelor's, and have no desire to now at 38 years old, but I would think it could help you (I'm assuming you're much younger than me). Maybe if you wanted a job in the game industry you could focus on 3D graphics and math. If you wanted to start your own game business, why not forego the CS masters for an MBA? I'm guessing most game businesses don't fail because the programmers weren't good enough, but rather because they didn't know how to run a business.

Anyway, when you're through you're going to look a lot more attractive to prospective companies/clients. Good luck.

[monco]

Also, I have no idea what a MS workload would be like, but if you have enough spare time nothing stops you from working on your indie games/ideas/plans all the while.

[GBGames]

I just finished my second quarter of graduate school. I am going for an MS in Computer Science.

First, let me say that working 40 hour weeks and going to school full time (two night classes) takes a lot of time, but I'm managing just fine. In fact, I get a good night's sleep almost every night (crunch time was at the end of the quarter). I have a girlfriend who I spend at least three or four days a week with, a local LUG that has meetings every week, and time to read books not related to class.

I think I was mostly inspired by Steve Pavlina's story about taking an ungodly number of credits per semester without losing sleep or missing out on a social life. Time management is key to being stressfree.

Why am I doing this? When I was in high school, I noticed that in the past, high school degrees were in high demand and almost guaranteed you a job. These days, college degrees do that. I figured that I would go one step further to make sure I was guaranteed a job.

These days, when I am thinking about running my own business and so I guarantee myself a job with myself, it may seem weird. But I like to think of it as my contingency plan in case my business fails. Some people say that if you think that way you're going to fail, but I think that there is nothing wrong with hoping for the best and planning for the worst. If my business fails, as most new businesses do, I think the ability to get a regular job quickly is a good thing. This isn't to say that I am not going to do my best to make sure my business doesn't fail. I'm just not going to blind myself with optimism, which I think is a common mistake.

[Mark Fassett]

Just remember that NOTHING guarantees that you will have a job. I remember several people with advanced degrees that I said "No Hire" on because they couldn't actually DO what they supposedly knew. Certainly, advanced degrees make getting to the interview a bit easier, and they generally help in the salary bargaining process, but they won't actually get you the job.

One other thing to keep in mind. In an entrepreneurship class I attended after getting laid off, one interesting statistic was laid out for us. The more formal education a person has, the less likely they are to succeed at starting a business. They didn't know why this is, just that it is. I'm not sure that means you should cut your education short, but I think that, if you want to start and run a shareware business, extra education isn't necessarily a step in that direction. Making a game is.

[Abscissa]

Just remember that NOTHING guarantees that you will have a job. I remember several people with advanced degrees that I said "No Hire" on because they couldn't actually DO what they supposedly knew.

That's a very good point to keep in mind. I think it can be all too easy for many people to forget that certification and ability are not the same thing. (Even though they're perhaps *supposed* to be, at least ideally)

One other thing to keep in mind. In an entrepreneurship class I attended after getting laid off, one interesting statistic was laid out for us. The more formal education a person has, the less likely they are to succeed at starting a business. They didn't know why this is, just that it is.

That is very interesting. My guess would be that success in self-employment and success in higher education require different skills. Specifically, a good entrepreneur needs to be highly skilled at making and acting upon their own decisions using their own good judgment. But that tendency is more likely a liability in formalized education where it's far more important to be able to just accept and follow the guidelines of others regardless of your own views of them. In other words, different personality types. (This could possibly explain the spotty college histories of certain successful people like John Carmack and Bill Gates).

But, I'm just speculating...

In reference to the original post, it sounds to me like all of the signs point to going for the masters. I'm not a huge fan of formal education personally, but in your case it doesn't sound you have very many reasons not to. If I'm interpreting you right (but maybe I'm not) it seems like you're just hesitant at making that big jump so quickly. (I've changed schools just before Spring semester on a few weeks notice as well, so I can relate to the pressures involved)

[GBGames]

Just remember that NOTHING guarantees that you will have a job. I remember several people with advanced degrees that I said "No Hire" on because they couldn't actually DO what they supposedly knew. Certainly, advanced degrees make getting to the interview a bit easier, and they generally help in the salary bargaining process, but they won't actually get you the job.

One other thing to keep in mind. In an entrepreneurship class I attended after getting laid off, one interesting statistic was laid out for us. The more formal education a person has, the less likely they are to succeed at starting a business. They didn't know why this is, just that it is. I'm not sure that means you should cut your education short, but I think that, if you want to start and run a shareware business, extra education isn't necessarily a step in that direction. Making a game is.

I completely agree. I don't see a point to certification, but I was interested in getting a cert when I thought it would help me get a better job with a better salary.

I like to emphasize my skills, but having a degree is a great bargaining chip. I don't have any illusions of guaranteeing a job with a masters degree. I just figure that it is a great help in getting my foot in past the ones who don't have a masters.

And as for starting a business while also pursuing a degreee: I haven't started it yet. Maybe when I get into the nitty gritty I'll cut back to part-time education, or even drop out, but I am not there yet. I don't have a game yet.

I'm building my skills, doing the research, and planning, while also watching my flanks. B-) I am concerned that I am moving a bit too slowly in terms of getting a game completed, but I am aware of this and am taking steps to rectify that. I'm currently working 40 hour weeks somewhere for decent pay, a huge portion of which is being saved for the purposes of my business venture. This situation makes sense to me since I didn't have much in the way of savings before I got my current job.

In summary, unless you feel confident that you will NEVER need a job, get your degree. I personally am viewing regular jobs as a potential means of stable income just in case my own business isn't able to sustain me. Getting a masters degree will only help me by opening the door to jobs that let me work less hours for more pay. As for immediately helping my business, I don't think it will directly impact me. I wish I had thought to go for a business degree in hindsight, but oh well. I'll learn it myself, and probably quicker at that. B-)

[Greg Squire]

I have two friends that have a Master's in CS. Both of them have told me that it has done little or nothing for them. It hasn't helped them get better jobs; their work experience did that for them. Also I have a brother-in-law with an MBA, and he's told me it did nothing for him when he started his own business. MBA's are only good when going to work for "the man", and a MS in CS might only be good if you're going into teaching (even then a PHD would be better). IMHO none of those are relevent in the Indie scene.

[BigZaphod]

MBA's are only good when going to work for "the man", and a MS in CS might only be good if you're going into teaching (even then a PHD would be better). IMHO none of those are relevent in the Indie scene.

I agree about the MBA. Well, actually, I mostly agree about everything. :) I would just like to add that I'm actually kind of interested in the teaching aspect and I'm considering going for a PhD (or at least leaving that option open). Not specifically for the indie scene, but as a backup or possible escape route. I don't have any real footing in the indie scene. I have no proven games or sales or anything, so right now, I guess, the indie stuff is just a hobby from my point of view and it could either stay that way or turn into something bigger (the future is open yet).

My nice consulting contract is going away thanks to budget cuts; I can't get on state unemployment insurance because I was self-employed and used it up from when I was unemployed last time; and based on the 7 months I spent trying to get something going before this consulting thing, I don't think my prospects for a decent job are good right now. So, might as well run away and hide in school for awhile in hopes things will improve or that I can really do something with an indie business. :)

And of course to be much MUCH closer to my fiancee... :D

I'm much more independently motivated now than I was a few years ago. I now know with certainty that I really hate working for the man. I don't feel like I can trust the man with my future so I want to take control of it myself. If I can't make a fun indie game thing happen, say, while in school, then I will likely take the road that leads to a PhD and perhaps a teaching position. It is sort of like working for the man, I suppose, but I think a very different "the man" than the business "the man." I don't really know, of course. Perhaps in 10 years I'll be back here talking about how I now know that the higher education man sucks a lot too. :)

I've come to realize that I'm not the type who is in it for the money, so a lower paying teaching job or indie lifestyle is just fine with me as long as I'm enjoying it.

Of course none of this is set in stone yet. I need to get a decent grade on the GRE and get my papers in order before the end of this year to be considered by the university. Then I need to be accepted. But hey, I got permission from the school to try to get in for next semester... now I just need to try to make it happen, I guess.

[mahlzeit]

Out of curiosity, how will you pay for school? Getting your masters is nice, I suppose, but is it worth getting a loan and going (deeper maybe) into debt?

Also, I wouldn't sell yourself short on your accomplishments so far. BeBits is something that looks pretty nice on a resume. :)

[Greg Squire]

Another thing to consider if you do go back to school, is that you might be able to make an indie game (or at least part of it) as one of your assignments (i.e. for a graphics class or software engineering class maybe) or even as your thesis (if there is something in the game that could constitue some area of research). That way you could "kill two birds with one stone". Just a thought if you're going that route.

[GBGames]

Just be careful. I believe DePaul University actually claims ownership over whatever work you submit, so don't make a game you intend to sell for homework if your school does the same. I actually haven't seen the rule that says this, but I was told this by a professor, I believe. That's pretty vague, and I really should research the details of it for the real truth, but be careful, just as if you were working for some company and they claim the same.