Info on publishers

[mikemz]

A site called Idigicon seems willing to publish 2d, simple games, but they have almost no information on publishing available on the website. Also, I found that the games usually have the real programmer's name hidden away, not on the title. Is this common among publishers?

[Sillysoft]

I am pretty sure that most publishers don't even mention the real developer's name anywhere. As far as they are concerned it is their game.

seems willing to publish 2d, simple games, but they have almost no information on publishing available on the website. That seems like a red flag. If you are going to give up the kind of things that publishers want then they better be very good for you. I would find out as much as I could about them before agreeing to anything.

[BongPig]

Idigicon have been around a long time, and from what ive heard, very trustworthy.
They initially started up as a publishing house for Blitz Basic games but have now moved on to publishing lots more.

Heres some publishing info from thier site:-
http://www.idigicon.com/getpub.asp

We nearly signed up ourselves, but decided in the end that our target gamer isnt the typical visitor iDigicon gets. You can see from thier genre list that they cater for very casual games, including educational and games for girls. If you fit into that catagory, you could do alot worse that getting in touch with them.

Certainly NOT one of the bad guys.
:)

[Jack Norton]

Certainly NOT one of the bad guys.
You sure? I've heard quite different stories... ;)
Anyway when they asked me to signup UBM in EXCLUSIVE with them I laught... why I should give them the exclusivity of a game if I want only to publish it on retail market? :)

[BongPig]

Thats fine Jack.
You cant critisise somebody for wanting your game exclusivly. Take it as a compliment and then say NO! :)

Ild be interested to hear any negative comments to clear this up.

And back to the original questions.... nearly all publishers will hide the developers names from the product page. So they should really, otherwise they'll be linking to another site where the visitor can buy the game. Not good if they've spent loads of time and money getting people to thier website in the first place.

[Nemesis]

It's funny you mention this. I have a tendency to download the demo, check who the developer is (if available) and go straight to their website to get the game if I'm going to purchase it :)

Then again, it may be because I'm a developer and like to find out who's behind the games.

[luggage]

Jack: Did they ask for exclusive retail rights? or exclusive including online? We tend to keep those seperate.

[Jack Norton]

Jack: Did they ask for exclusive retail rights? or exclusive including online? We tend to keep those seperate.
they asked for exclusivity retail+online, and obviously I didn't even replied to such an offer, expecially because I said to them that my game was selling already well online, and I wanted ONLY to expand to retail.

Their answer was quite bad, because I just said that I have a game that already sell, expecially in UK (more than 70% of UBM customers are from UK) so they should be happy to know that they could market a winning product. Instead, they wanted also the online rights? ehm... :)

Their impression to me wasn't really good, but it may be a wrong impression...

[svero]

There's nothing unusual about a publisher wanting exclusivity. In fact until recently, exclusivity has been pretty much the norm. From the publisher's point of view exclusivity is often the only choice available if they plan to do any promotion. If you were to publish a title with no exclusivity what is your incentive to advertise? If you advertise the product will you be advertising for your competition who've also picked up the same game? When you put money into promoting a game you expect to be the one getting the reward from that. That's just one example. So looking for an exclusive is not in itself unusual or a bad sign.

Keeping in mind that im not a legal expert here's my take on protecting yourself as a developer...

As a developer though, an exclusive contract presents a problem. If you make a mistake and sign up with the wrong publisher then you can get locked into a contract that prevents you from suceeding with another publisher. For that reason it's often a good idea to consider a "lame duck" clause. Basically a clause where if the publisher doesn't meet certain minimums you have the option of terminating your contract with them on a few months notice, with the termination details spelled out in another section of the contract. (ie last payment etc..)

[Bluecat]

Something else to keep in mind.

If they are only going to retail the game in a particular region, say North America, you might want to ensure that the exclusive rights pertain only to that region. That way you are free to shop for a publisher that will sell your game in other parts of the world like Europe and Asia.

[ggambett]

Hmmm. The only familiar indie titles I see are Best Friends and Platypus - maybe Mike Boeh is the best person to share his experience with the guys?

[simonh]

Idigicon's strongest point is shipping budget retail titles in the UK. They do that very well, and you can see many of their games on the shelves of Game stores in the UK.

As for their online presence, I'm not sure about that to be honest. Their website could be better and I'm not sure they're fully comitted to that side of things.

Personally I would try and get a UK-retail only deal with them. Well actually that's what I'm trying to do right now...

Also, I believe they prefer to pay a single upfront payment rather than any kind of royalties.

[KNau]

I had a brief experience with Idigicon and it ruled that company out for me forever. Lots of promises and then months would go by without any contact, try to follow up and told things like "I'll get back to you on Monday" and then another month would go by. They would always reappear with lame excuses for losing contact.

And this was during the initial contact stage! Most publishers will wait until after they have your game before they do the magic disappearing act. I never could tell if it was laziness, incompetence or rudeness on their part but it was surely one of those.

Lastly, the quality of their game products are almost universally bad. Go ahead and download any random 5 games from their site, I guarantee 4 of them will border on unplayable. Do you want to be associated with a brand like that?

I haven't seen anything Idigicon can do (including retail exposure) that you couldn't do yourself to better effect with a little effort. But I fully admit, I am biased and have a severe grudge against the company.

[ggambett]

Most publishers will wait until after they have your game before they do the magic disappearing act.
I had this experience with Mediaphor. No news (and not even mail replies) once the contract was signed. Posting this so it comes up when someone searches for Mediaphor.

[Andy]

Lots of promises and then months would go by without any contact, try to follow up and told things like "I'll get back to you on Monday" and then another month would go by.
And this was during the initial contact stage!

The same is here. We got some contacts with this company something near 8 months ago. That was something: "We'll discuss your products on our always Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday meeting" - didn't hear from them any more. Perhaps they discussed the products... ;) But I wasn't trying to disturb them anymore after that - what for?..

[Coyote]

Anyone familiar with Merscom? Looks like they are attempting to be a syndicate... they buy licenses to games, and then sell the licenses to other publishers. That's about all I was able to gather, except that they had Savage and ThinkTanks amidst their stable of games (which are great games to have in their list...)

[Fost]

Just wanted to chime in late here with the 'ignore publishers that don't pay up front fees' thing. If it's the only wisdom I can ever impart to new developers then I'll be happy.

We have never made any money off anyone unless they paid up front fees, and the publishers that did also turned out to be trustworthy and great to work with - we even consider some to be like friends on the web now.

Coming from a mainstream gaming background, we thought publishers would be at the forefront of our business so we spent a lot of time with them. I'm pretty sure we could have develoeped and released a game in the time it took talking to them.

One final note: none of that applies to online publishers such as reflexive or garagegames - who I'm pretty sure have to work on a royalty only basis. In any case, I've never used them, but I'm sure these guys are trustworthy - as they are all developers themselves and know 'where it's at'.

[Royel]

Anyone knows about xing interactive & their commitment to developers?

[KNau]

I've been working with Xing to rerelease one of my older games and so far they seem to be very easy to work with and haven't lost contact with me even after the contracts were signed and the game was in their hands.

I've read other people's negative comments on Xing but so far that hasn't been my experience. They made some good deals with foreign subdistributors and I have been very pleased, certainly better than anything my previous (never to be mentioned) publisher had done.

Note that I haven't received any of the money owed to me yet (4 months into the process) but that has more to do with the subdistributors and a quick changing of our contract this past month than it does Xing's practices. I have faith that it will all be ironed out soon.

It really does depend on the game as to how well they can market and sell it. It doesn't seem to me like the 2D puzzle / arcade category does as well in Europe / overseas as it does in North America. Especially if you are looking for retail exposure.

Lastly, one thing to get used to is that dealing with foreign distribution is that it's a hideously slow process! Expect to spend a couple hundred bucks in Fed Ex deliveries and at least 3 - 4 months to go by before seeing any money from such deals. It just goes with the territory.

[svero]

>Just wanted to chime in late here with the 'ignore publishers that don't pay
>up front fees' thing. If it's the only wisdom I can ever impart to new
>developers then I'll be happy.

Yes I agree this doesn't (currently) appy to online publishers. We're generally talking retail on this advice.

I'd like to also mention that new developers who've never faced this scenario before might be afraid to walk away from a deal because they're insisting on a deposit that the publisher is unwilling to give. Don't be afraid to walk away! If a publisher cant pay you a percentage of their minimum sales upfront you will most likely never see dime 1 from that deal. So when you're walking away comfort yourself with the thought that you're actually ahead of the game. Not only did you walk away from a deal that probably wouldn't have paid off, but you're also not tied to a lame contract that prevents you from finding opportunity elsewhere. Think of the up front fee request as a filter. It's difficult to tell the good from the bad company if you've never dealt with them. The fee is generally a good indication of how much they believe their own promises.

[BongPig]

Getting ignored by publishers is something we all need to get used to, and get over. Always look at it as a sign they are not interested, and move on asap.

We could point fingers at iDigicon, but ive had the same experiences with much more established publishers. In fact, ive never come accross a publisher that didnt leave me hanging to some degree.

A thumbs up for GarageGames though. They were by far the most attentive and professional people I have yet to work with.

[Dan MacDonald]

A thumbs up for GarageGames though. They were by far the most attentive and professional people I have yet to work with.


Yet, they still recieve 100's of games for which they never send a response. It really is a fact of life, publishers often have so many games to look at there's just not time to craft a tactful "were not interested" letter to the developer. I agree with bongpig, if you are working with publishers you just have to get used to getting the cold sholder. It's nothing personal, it's just business.

[ggambett]

It really is a fact of life, publishers often have so many games to look at there's just not time to craft a tactful "were not interested" letter to the developer.
No need to craft one - they could send a standard "not interested" email. That would be much better than being ignored!

[svero]

No need to craft one - they could send a standard "not interested" email. That would be much better than being ignored!

I agree. I don't think there's any excuse for this kind of behaviour. It's just rude and IMHO it reflects poorly on the publisher.

[BongPig]

Granted. It does reflect poorly on the publishers.
But theres nothing we can do about it. Every line of business ive ever worked in is exactly the same.
We need to accept we cannot change the world, and deal with situations best we can. Coming to the same 'publishers suck' conclusion over and over again doesnt get us anywhere. Believe me, ive been there same as everybody else. Ive been ignored with the best of them! It used to really bother me till I realised I was wasting my time and productivity getting wound up.

The formula is simple. If a publisher likes your game, they WILL reply. If they dont, then they dont like it. Usually the developer goes through all kinds of paranoid thoughts. Did they get my demo? What if they didnt? What if the e-mail got lost? What if the link didnt work?
Usually followed by lots more mails to the pub asking whether they got your original mail or not.
Im sure this process is familiar to many of us here, including me!

We need to take back the power, and stop hassling these people for scraps. Ignore them like they ignore us. Dont let it get to you. They dont want your game? So what? The best you you can do is focus on something more productive.

[KNau]

The cold shoulder I can handle, and you're absolutely right that the key in those situations is to just move on if you don't hear anything. My pet peeve, and what occurred in the aforemention Idigicon situation was that the publisher did express interest and then disappeared - and on rare occasions when they could be tracked down they would reaffirm that interest but never act on it.

All I ask is that a publisher have the balls to either say "no" or just ignore me, but not lead me on. I specifically got out of mainstream game development because of nonsense like that! Thankfully, I don't plan on dealing with many publishers in the future as I'm wagering I can do better on my own.

[Greg Squire]

All of this has been really good advice, Is there a way we could put together a page or thread that would give us all a list of publishers and a rating for each of them? I think this could be really helpful for those of us starting that process. I was thinking of something along the lines of an "epinions" sort of thing, but I'm not sure that's possible on this forum. Maybe instead this could be a simple as a sticky thread with everyone giving a rating for publishers they have some experience with. That could help us new indies to know where to concentrate our efforts. What do you all think?

[Jack Norton]

I think that this would be a very good idea.
There was a thread in old dex forums with publisher list, but I'd prefer a sticky one in the Indie Business forums.

To KNau: publishers often make promises then they disappear. I remember one that offered me 5000 euros for distribution of UBM in Poland. Then he said 2500 with futile excuses. Then again, When I asked for contract, they disappeared.
But I didn't requested more info either :) Bad for them, my game could have sold very well in Poland (boxe is popular there), they'd have recouped that investment in 1 month I think ;)

[Jim Buck]

Just to throw in my 2 cents as I had dealt with EVERY major publisher when I had my own company (and I even work a publisher now [but as a developer])..

ALL publishers will usually seem interested even if really they are not. It's just how it goes with human nature. We had it happen tons of times. It's true that if you have something they REALLY want, you will hear from them.

And I think it's not extremely useful to post ratings of publishers since you are usually not dealing with a publisher as much as you are dealing with a particular PERSON. (Now, if there were ratings for people that worked at publishers, that would be far more useful.. though I'm not suggesting that. :) ) Each person within a publisher is completely different from the next, and having a bad experience with one (because that person is flaky or whatever) does not at all indicate what kind of dealings you would have if you reached a different person at the same publisher.

[Jack Norton]

Yes sure, it depends on the person and not on the Company in general.
However I found that the contact person for those companies (that specialize in small budget games) remain the same for long time (long time in game industry = 2-3 years even).
In fact could be worth a company list specifying the name of the person :D

[English_Eccentric]

Hello!

I just wanted to post here to clear a few misconceptions up if I may.

Especially to "KNau" (I'm not familiar with this pseudonym so I can't directly comment, but please get in touch as I'm curious why you'd say such harsh words - Please email me and let me know who you are, so I can try and get to the bottom of your comments.) - What I will say to you is this; there's always two sides to a story and one of the biggest problems I've faced in my 4- 5 years of overseeing external projects and product licensing & acquisition here, is one of communication. (A sad side to this is that I've had abusive emails personally and again harsh postings on forums from authors of certain products we've decided not to publish; purely and simply for commercial reasons. We always explain why a product won't work FOR US (doesn't mean it won't work elsewhere) & suggest/guide the developer to making their product more of a marketable product in areas we trade in. We never burn bridges and our door is always open. Again, sadly, I/we've had to take quite a bit of abusive over the years, when all we are is honest and fair.)

tbh & In my experience, a very high percentage of the independent community that we've dealt with, won't call (phone) us during a products development or similar, I even offer to call people if they leave a number (so there's no cost to them) and if feasible, get them up to the offices regularly, again at our cost, but most people seem to prefer email, which can be frustrating for me/us. Plus, you can't deny that email, as quick & instant as it is, can commonly be misinterpreted, as opposed to a face to face meeting or a telephone call.

Again, tbh & to reiterate. In my 10 years of working for Idigicon, 99.9% of problems have been down to a lack of communication or miscommunication and not through any malpractice that I feel we are being accused of here.

Period.

Now, I don't profess that we are perfect but we DO have morals, ethics and we've been in business over 20 years now & that comes only through hard work, and working "with" people.

Personally, I find it difficult to respond to everyone, but I do try to contact everyone who takes the time out to email me. There's always 101 things going on here and we are genuinely busy, but WE DO care as most of our staff (myself included) come from a "back bedroom" background, and I truly believe this is where the real (& original) talent lies.

We current publish over 300 products, we also licensed Platypus to Mike Boeh (retro64) who most of you may know...

All this said, we know and appreciate it is a minefield out there and to make any kind of business work is very hard going & for that I/we respect you if you go it alone, again it ISN'T easy out there. Plus, heck, even if we had the money, we couldn't physically publish every single game offered to us!

Finally, as I have to dash, as the office is just about to be closed for the night. (hence I'm furiously typing this, so please excuse any spelling mistakes or errors in my grammar) - There's more I'd like to say etc...but I openly invite anyone to email me if they have a problem or have had a problem with Idigicon, because we are not out to nor do we want to upset anyone, or make anyone feel as if they've had a raw deal when communicating with us, irrespective of whether they have a publishing deal with us or not. We are just ordinary people who love games & the computer industry & we have a wealth of contacts and experience to actually generate the all important key ingredient - SALES - So, if anyone wishes to discuss this post or anything relating to it, or the industry at large, I'm at george@idigicon.com - Plus, if any of you living in the UK want a guided tour & an informal chat regarding Idigicon, the industry and or indeed the prospect of publishing (on or offline) then please email me and I'll arrange for it to happen at our cost!

Good luck in what ever you do.

Warmest wishes

George :-)

[English_Eccentric]

I am pretty sure that most publishers don't even mention the real developer's name anywhere. As far as they are concerned it is their game.

Idigicon DO...on each and every box we manufacture, on the back of the box is the developers real name.

Thanks for listening :)

[dan]

BongPig (what a nick) has the right idea. Just imagine that you sent them a resume. Ringing their phones is just going to seem desperate and weak.

Actually, this could apply to all sorts of relationships....

[Mike Boeh]

We've had no problems with George and Idigicon. He has even offered to fly me over to the UK for a face-to-face...

[svero]

If you're too busy mike I Volunteer to take the free trip to the UK for you. I have a hankering for some fish n chips.

[Andy]

What I personally like in all that publishers that they are trying to look so smooth in forums and especially in different press. :)

George - you said me in email that you are going to discuss the publishing of some of our games at your company meeting. I didn't get anything from you after that - no any single NO even. I don't think that this could work like "We always explain why a product won't work FOR US". Period.

Thanks,

[cliffski]

"Note that I haven't received any of the money owed to me yet (4 months into the process) but that has more to do with the subdistributors and a quick changing of our contract this past month than it does Xing's practices. I have faith that it will all be ironed out soon."


Don't.

I have only ever made 3 deals retail wise I have been happy with. 1 was Take2 (very happy) one was Akella(pretty happy) and a third was egames. Only egames didnt offer upfront money, but they came highly recommended.
you MUST get money upfront, and assume thats all you will get.
I hate to bring bad news, but anyone who signed their game on the promise of later royalties is unlikely to ever see a penny. I know I never did in 2 cases.

[Jack Norton]

It's fun in effect that as soon as someone talk badly about a publisher in those forums they suddenly pop-up explaining everything :D
So I've decided to make a quick summary about all my publishers relationship so far:
Idigicon - www.idigicon.com - they requested to sell in exclusive UBM also online... unacceptable request for me (I said that I wanted to sell only retail rights)
PLAY Sp - www.play.com.pl - they offered 5000 euro flat fee for UBM. Then because was in OpenGL they said 2500 - I say ok and asked for a contract sample - no answer yet (was 1st may so over 3 months passed)
Take 2 - they sent me an enthusiast email about UBM and my other games, but got no reply yet (6th of may)

I'm talking with another one currently but they're making me lot of questions (like "how many copies you sell monthly?" - "which percentage of your sales comes to germany?") so I stopped them asking "how much money are you going to pay me upfront?" :P

If I had the money I'd publish UBM myself, that game at a sale price of 15 euros could sell thousand in UK and in USA (80% of my orders are from those 2 countries)... bah, even if you have a unique product publishers don't want to invest? :(

[English_Eccentric]

Please remember that I said you could've sold it online yourself too, we already have this agreement with several developers.

Just so people know, we sell games made in Blitz, Dark Basic, C, C++, Delphi, Pure Basic etc....each deal is worked on a games merit and marketability from the companies point of view, not the language or standard it uses.

ps..With regards to a publisher just popping up! I was a member of the dexterity forums for a long time but only posted when I needed to (busy). Plus we develop, publish, design packaging, print packaging, all internally, so we are not just a publisher in the traditional sense.

Anyway, I don't want to go off on tangents etc...if you need to discuss any of this further, please feel free to drop me a line.

NB: I just wanted people to know that we are here & available to talk if need be & if certain people haven't received replies then it has not been intentional, plus, as we were just dipping our toes in the PC games market (4 - 5 years ago) It has just been myself dealing with all acquisitions, and tbh it has been hard, I've worked from home many, many nights & I'm trying to slow that down for the sanity of me (& the wife/kids who are the most important thing to me) - Please note, I'm not after sympathy, I just want people to realise that we've worked our a$$e$ off here to make a living as we take nothing for granted.

The upshot is that last month we acquired www.smiliegames.com & the guy behind it works for us and no doubt some of you guys will be hearing from Jonni (Ball) as he is heading up a big online sales/marketing push for us, which takes a bit of the pressure away from me.

Anyway, good luck with your development & sales.

Thx

[BongPig]

This could go on forever. Some say they are happy. Others say they are not. Some are ignored. Others aint. Get a grip people.

I think one of the harshest realities indie devs need to learn is that thier games are simply not good enough to make decent money. Period.
Thats why they get ignored. Thats why the publisher isnt chasing them down and sending flowers & chocolates. Its not because the publisher ( or whoever depending what buisness you are in ) is an asshole.

Its the easiest thing to blame the world for your failures, but absolutely ego shattering to accept its because your skills are not up to it ( yet ).

Welcome to planet earth.

[princec]

I don't think I will ever seek a retail deal.

Cas :)

[PsychicParrot]

I have worked with Idigicon on many different projects and they have been brilliant. Not only have they paid on-time, every time but they have gone the extra mile to help out with projects (such as providing hardware like joypads etc. for testing). If I've encountered any particular problems with deadlines, they've helped out with code, graphics ... just about anything they possibly could to help the project to completion.

Anyhoo ... I just wanted to sing some praise for them, because they get a lot of flack and I can honestly say that I don't understand why. Most of it seems to be due to developers not doing something as simple as picking up the phone and talking to them about it. E-mail is a great invention, but it leads to sooo many misunderstandings and arguments it's unreal.. most of which could be solved so easily with proper communication.

One really important thing here is that if you are unhappy with what your publisher is doing (or not doing), GIVE THEM A CALL and explain it (forget e-mail for important things, ok!?!! It's just not worth the trouble and it's too easy to ignore / end up in the spam folder) ... publishers want to make money just as much as you do, which means they want to sell their products just as much as you do. If you think they're missing a huge market or sales channel tell 'em so!

[KNau]

Incidentally, I did try to phone twice and received a "we'll call you" but no luck. In the end it got sort of pathetic, I'm not going to beg a company to make money with my games! I appreciate the offer to sort it out over e-mail but, having tried that once before, I'm not going to bother. The issue (and option) of Idigicon distribution is closed to me - I only responded here because someone asked for experiences.

If anyone chooses to do business with Idigicon then I am not here to stop them. I shared my experience which was negative but I realize there have been plenty of people who are happy with them. In the end it's up to each developer to decide.

[Jack Norton]

GIVE THEM A CALL
Ehm... Not every developers lives in UK, you know :o

[English_Eccentric]

Incidentally, I did try to phone twice and received a "we'll call you" but no luck.
Well, I now know that it wasn't me you were dealing with, as I've always called developers back whenever a message is left for me along with a phone number, as it's always been a low percentage who call, so I always make the effort to call back seeing as they made the effort to phone.

tbh It's just odd as to the anonymity of your postings, as anyone could say what you've said and not back it up with any evidence, which unfortunately is nearly always the case.

[English_Eccentric]

Ehm... Not every developers lives in UK, you know
It doesn't matter...email your number to us and we will call if a phone call is required. I deal with several developers in the US and I call them around once a week to catch up on the status of projects.

[Coyote]

Well, I have to say I'm now impressed by Idigicon.

[Andy]

... impressed Coyote?.. :cool:
Sure, you are...
Because, first of all that's their job to produce a good impression from their company and now - calculate the relative amount of words in this thread that was written by George in comparison with another guys.

Honestly, I have amount to answer him - but look how it works:
First of all I'm thinking about corporate etics and don't like to offend somebody in public forum.
And I think that may be our contact with his company was really big exclusion from the rules he describes here.
And check that - he writes positive comments about his company here and later calls everybody to discuss all possible disagreements by emails.

PS George, on current stage I'm pretty not sure if your company is so bad as I was thinking about it by two days ago! So, don't accept this as any kind of personal attacks - I just study your method as good school. I'm really jelows on your skill to rotate all things in the correct direction for you. OK? :)

[KNau]

tbh It's just odd as to the anonymity of your postings, as anyone could say what you've said and not back it up with any evidence, which unfortunately is nearly always the case.


Funny, I see you post that line every time someone has a negative comment about Idigicon. But fine, my name is Kyle Nau and we were discussing distributing my first game "Power Mad" roughly a year and a half ago.

Here's pretty much how my Idigicon experience went down:

- I uploaded my game, sent an e-mail
- You (George) expressed an interest
- Weeks go by with no followup
- I tried to speed it up by naming a price, you say "sounds reasonable"
- Weeks go by with no followup; I e-mail; no reply
- I phone, "Who calling?", "It's Kyle Nau regarding distribution of Power Mad" (muffled hand-over-phone conversation) "Sorry, he's busy - shall I have him call you?", "Yes, please"
- Another week goes by
- I e-mail, no reponse
- I e-mail another contact at Idigicon, he says you're on vacation, something you hadn't bothered to mention
- Another week goes by, I send a strongly worded, frustrated e-mail
- Receive an excuse about a skiing accident and that you are working from home.
- More time goes by.
- Catch you on MSN Messenger and ask what's up, you say you will discuss it when you return to the office the following week.
- More weeks pass
- I e-mail saying it's all off and you can stuff it.
- You reply with a "gosh, we're sorry we wasted your time - don't be mad"

Sound familiar?

I don't know why my particular experience was so negative when I know quite a few people have had great experiences with Idigicon. I'm not trying to put people off from trying your company but I am posting a cautionary tale so developers will be able to spot when they are getting the run-around.

[English_Eccentric]

Sound familiar?
No, not at all....at most I'd say it's only around 20% of the truth.

First off, you've certainly milked your experience with a lot of built up half truths there haven't you.

Funny, I see you post that line every time someone has a negative comment about Idigicon
Well, I only post facts.

I'm far too jaded to get into childish tit for tat conversations on any of this but, I know this is a lie:

- I phone, "Who calling?", "It's Kyle Nau regarding distribution of Power Mad" (muffled hand-over-phone conversation) "Sorry, he's busy - shall I have him call you?", "Yes, please"
As you are obviously trying to make out that I was present when you called and that I told the person answering the phone to say I was busy, utter tripe I'm afraid. Our reception is one floor below me, that's how I know this is untrue, our receptionist would've tried to put the call throught, by putting you on hold & then dialling my internal extension number, not put her hand over the phone, we have a proper phone system that connects to 20 something offices from our reception to each office, plus I never received any messages to call you c/w a number to call you on.

Receive an excuse about a skiing accident and that you are working from home.
Again, please get your facts right. I broke my ankle last summer whilst playing football on holiday and I indeed worked from home for nearly three months, as my ankle needed surgery etc...I returned back to work Jan 2004.

Knau, you really should read what an industry experienced developer like BongPig has to say.

End of story, as I'm typing this in my own time whilst at home.

If you need to continue this conversation, feel free to contact me directly in the office next week.

Plus, I'm a strong believer that it's not only very rude to "air your dirty laundry in public", it's also unprofessional and potentially libellous.

*large sigh*

[KNau]

I "aired my dirty laundry" because you made the accusation that I was hiding behind anonymity. So, responding makes me childish and unprofessional but it was perfectly fine for you to level the accusation. I also love the "you should listen to an industry experienced developer" comment, like I have none. Besides, BongPig has his own credibility gap with that statement.

There are two sides to every story and now everyone here has heard both. Lots of praise for Idigicon and a few negative comments - it happens. If you read my posts I have told my point of view and then tried to buffer it at the end with the statement that people should do what they want and my experience appears to be an anomaly, here is no different:

I don't generally petition against Idigicon since I realize that my experience is not the norm but I'm not giving your company a free ride either. I had a negative experience and if someone asks, I tell them.