Developer Contest

[mjuricek]

Hello,

We have announced a contest for any game developing teams out there.
The prize includes:
- $100,000 cash advance
- paid game engine license up to $1 million (any commercial game engine available)
- standard dev team royalties from shipped title

Estimated duration of the project is until November 2008. However, it is best to get involved and collaborating with our community right away!

For more details and the rules of the contest, go here:
http://www.videogameteam.com/modcenter/rules.html

Please contact me directly or post if you have any questions!

Martin

[papillon]

wait, am I reading this right? You want people to work for you unpaid for a full year and then you get to keep complete rights to all the games and only pay for one of them?

[Andy]

...and only pay for one of them?

Where have you read this? ;)
As far as I'm able to understand with my poor English they keep the right both to cancel the competition on any stage or/and to postpone the final date as long as they would like... :D

PS Must be I should ask someone to translate and explain their terms to me.

[papillon]

"6. Any team entering the Competition agrees to and does hereby grant Acclaim Games Inc., their subsidiaries, affiliates and agents an exclusive and irrevocable worldwide right to publish their entry as a professional video game and that the game will be the sole property of Acclaim."

[Andy]

Pardon, lady! ;)
But I've quoted the doubtful part of your pervious message. ;)

[Ricardo C]

So every entrant will be providing Acclaim with a videogame it may publish (or mine for ideas/content/code) regardless of whether it wins the contest?? That seems to be the gist of the rules.

It's like the corporate version of one of those "I have a great idea for a MMORPG" GameDev posts.

ps-- How can it be a "$100,000 cash advance" when the work has already been completed?

[mjuricek]

Thank you guys for your feedback.I appologize for rules not being completely clear.


All teams will be the owners of what they created.


6. Any team entering the Competition agrees to and does hereby grant Acclaim Games Inc., their subsidiaries, affiliates and agents an exclusive and irrevocable worldwide right to publish their entry as a professional video game and that the game will be the sole property of Acclaim."
The winning development team will also get industry standard royalties + cash advances from Acclaim based on all revenue sources for this title, for as long as they stay committed to supporting the game.
game.


ps-- How can it be a "$100,000 cash advance" when the work has already been completed?
cash advances are from the royalties


So every entrant will be providing Acclaim with a videogame it may publish (or mine for ideas/content/code) regardless of whether it wins the contest?? That seems to be the gist of the rules.
teams will own all asset they made. in case of non winning team they can release their game as long as it's not associated with this game or basing off of same design

[Ricardo C]

Thanks for clarifying the rules, Jim, they do seem a lot more reasonable now.

I'm still failing to see how an advance against royalties is any sort of prize, though, especially after spending a year developing a self-financed game. "Spend a year building an AAA game and you might recoup your costs!" ;)

[Garthy]

So to summarise...

- You have to work for free for a year;
- If you enter, win or lose, the corp owns your game and can publish it ("6. Any team entering the Competition agrees to and does hereby grant...");
- If you win, they'll loan (not give) you $100 000 at the end from any royalties you were otherwise entitled ("cash advances are from the royalties"); and
- Any royalties you do make will be made with you negotiating a rate post-transfer of ownership to the corp (see clause 6 again). Any ideas what sort of rate comes out of that kind of negotiating position?

I realise I might be burning bridges here, but....

what

the

heck?

If it's just an honest mistake, and not an attempt to blatantly rip people off, it might be worth cleaning up the conditions of entry just a little.

[bjgil2]

There was a similar competition to this one running in Australia earlier this year with just as dismal rules of entry.

So... let me get this straight


All teams will be the owners of what they created

except when


the game will be the sole property of Acclaim

And furthermore,


teams will own all asset they made. in case of non winning team they can release their game as long as it's not associated with this game or basing off of same design

A team builds a fantasy RTS, submits it to the competition, but doesn't win.
They now have:
1. A game they don't own since even losing submissions become the property of Acclaim
2. Assets they can't use, since any game they make with them will necessarily be "off of the same design"

I believe you really do think you are doing something good for struggling developers by offering them the chance to get a game published. However, with the terms of entry as they stand, all I see is a massive sink of developer's IP.

Cheers,
Brett

[mairsil]

Took you long enough to find this place Martin :D

I can see how this contest can look bad, but the best way to look at it is to think of it as bidding for a contract. The specs are/will be laid out by the community for the developers to work with. In the end, the team which delivers the "best" product conforming to the specifications wins the contract. This is a common occurrence for large engineering projects.

[Garthy]

Took you long enough to find this place Martin :D

I can see how this contest can look bad, but the best way to look at it is to think of it as bidding for a contract. The specs are/will be laid out by the community for the developers to work with. In the end, the team which delivers the "best" product conforming to the specifications wins the contract. This is a common occurrence for large engineering projects.

I've seen this sort of bidding first-hand, but I don't recall seeing any "we own everything, even on a failed bid" clauses in engineering bids before. ;) (at least not in any that were taken seriously!)

It is probably meant to be less sinister than it appears, but whilst the loaded language remains there is a problem...

[Andy]

Thanks for clarifying the rules, Jim, they do seem a lot more reasonable now.


Have they implemented any changes on their site?
Because explanations in forums - correct or not - have no any connection to what every participant should sign up...

This is really a miracle to see such kind of cheating from well-known reputable companies like Acclaim - another wave of managers or what?.. :confused:

[Ricardo C]

Took you long enough to find this place Martin :D

I can see how this contest can look bad, but the best way to look at it is to think of it as bidding for a contract. The specs are/will be laid out by the community for the developers to work with. In the end, the team which delivers the "best" product conforming to the specifications wins the contract. This is a common occurrence for large engineering projects.

Requiring the job to be finished before the contract is awarded sounds like a ridiculous working arrangement, and to present it as some sort of "prize" is borderline insulting. Sounds like the polar opposite of "indie": Not only are you creating a product for a third party, you're doing so with no compensation for a year in the best-case scenario, and for no compensation at all should you lose.

[Sysiphus]

Being an artist, and not fan of doing large projects, am out of this anyway, but... I never do those bidding per contract unless I already have a different safer target for the project, only that is a secondary possible target, the contest. If aren't clear (in the rules at their website, as yep, is the only way) about the ownership of non winning ones... I don't see how anyone would spend a year. maybe some passionate students are the target. But usually those don't get a well polished in graphics,sound, game design and code, project, if they ever end. So I wouldn't even see the practical point. MORPGS kind of projects are of the type of most often started projects between the kids, and it's like 99,9% of them to die in a week. Serious developers, do engage smaller games, unless paid already.

[Oaf]

Acclaim: "Hey let's do what we do for a living anyway, but by calling it a competition we get to mop up lots of IP and get lots of PR in the process!".

Genius.

[Teeth]

Acclaim LOL

[lennard]

Pretty appalling. I'm all for free market forces sorting things out and I guess that's what we are doing here but the job they are asking to have completed is worth way more than 100k as a contract. To offer it as a prize with all associated risks is just goofy.

If you really thought that these guys were somebody that you HAD to work with then why wouldn't you develop the thing independently and then show them the thing when done - that way you retain control over your IP and the ability to negotiate a decent deal if the thing turns out great. And if it doesn't then you aren't going to win their little contest anyhow - but at least you will still own your code and assets.

Anyhow, beating a dead horse as everybody has already taken a swipe at this but... man, some people.

[Agent 4125]

This is wrong.

Bottom line: if someone produces something for you, you should compensate them, regardless of whether it is chosen or not.

If I go to two different artists asking for designs, with the intention of only using one set, I pay them both. When my musician offered to give me an extra song for free, I insisted on paying him extra for his time.

Asking for a year of free work on a complete game with a precise specification... that's exploitation.


but whilst the loaded language remains there is a problem...

That's intentional. If you enter this contest, Acclaim owns your work. Why? They wrote the contract. They have the army of lawyers. Their interpretation is the correct one.

[Sammgus]

Hmm, as mentioned it seems like a new development model for the company that goes something like this:

1. We think there's a gap in the market for a game of type X.
2. If we could buy a type X game, how much would it be worth to us?
3. Divide this number by 10 and call it a prize.
4. Offer a 'free' competition whereby people create this game, we give them the money as a prize, and we take the game.

PROBLEM: Some of the non-winning entries might be good enough to compete with the winning entry, thus diluting the market and reducing profit.
SOLUTION: Add a clause stating that we own all entries, thus preventing any other entrants from competing.

I'm pretty sure this is how management sees it. It's disgusting to see how limited the parameters for the game's design are. They even tell you up front:

The challenge is first to show us YOUR vision for OUR design, then pull together a team to actually make the game.
Let me translate:
"The challenge is first to show us YOUR (implementation) for OUR design, then (do all of the project management) to actually make the game."

Artists get really shafted. You make the best mount model they've seen? Here, have an iPod. If it's really good, but not the best, we'll take it anyway!
[quote]Any entry in the contest is eligible to be used in the final game, assuming it meets our ultimate needs.[quote]

Bit of a shocker really.

[papillon]

Of course, we probably aren't really the target market for this 'contest'... and the bright-eyed innocents that are won't read this forum. :)

[Oaf]

Of course, we probably aren't really the target market for this 'contest'... and the bright-eyed innocents that are won't read this forum. :)

Oh I don't know - can you see bright-eyed innocents being capable enough of deploying an multiplayer game that's scalable to up to a million players?

What's even more shocking is Dave Perry's put his name to this. Acclaim can shrug off the criticism behind the facade of a big, nasty exploitative company, but Perry's going to look a bit of a berk personally when news of this gets out.

[papillon]

Oh I don't know - can you see bright-eyed innocents being capable enough of deploying an multiplayer game that's scalable to up to a million players?


Even better - the college kids work their socks off for a year, ALL of their entries are judged not good enough, the best bits of all the different entries are sorted through and given to professionals to make a real game out of, and all the college kids can claim a year's unpaid internship and contribution on a shipped title on their CVs to go and be hired by EA! :)

[Matt2East]

Is this thread also advertised on gamedev.net ?

[mjuricek]

I forwared all concerns about the rules, even before I visited this forum. They are working on clarifying it more. I assume it's taking some time because of all legal stuff.


Is this thread also advertised on gamedev.net ?
Yes, all I'm trying to do is to spread the word. I have no affiliation with Acclaim at all. I'm justa regular member of Top Secret community. But I just don't go spamming forums. I would not post unless I get permission from admins.

[Escapee]

This contest would get a better response if it's posted in High school or University. :p

[moose6912]

Oh I don't know - can you see bright-eyed innocents being capable enough of deploying an multiplayer game that's scalable to up to a million players?


No, but I can see a lot of them "think" that they can produce the next MMORPG killer in 1 year or even the next World Of Warcraft. If I had 10 cents for every time I see a young inexperienced innocent talking about developing the next WOW, I would be rich like Donald Trump, without the bad hair.

[mjuricek]

If I had 10 cents for every time I see a young inexperienced innocent talking about developing the next WOW, I would be rich like Donald Trump, without the bad hair.

I would agree, but in this case it's David Perry and he is considered veteran in the industry. So in the end this game will be released and published.

[Pyabo]

This is really a miracle to see such kind of cheating from well-known reputable companies like Acclaim -

You're joking, right? Isn't this the same company that wanted to advertise on tombstones? And offered money for someone to name their baby Turok?

I have some excellent news for prospective entrants into this contest: EA, Microsoft, Take-Two, Activision, Ubisoft and every other publisher in the world are running a very similar contest! Except they don't call it a contest, and they don't own your game when you pitch it.

[Andy]

..and they don't own your game when you pitch it.

...kinda not so small difference. No?... :confused:

[mjuricek]

You're joking, right? Isn't this the same company that wanted to advertise on tombstones? And offered money for someone to name their baby Turok?


THere is one difference. You are talking about Acclaim Entertainment that went bankrupt few years ago. Howard Marks former CEO of Activision bought Acclaim's name (and name only) tocreate Acclaim Games.


I have some excellent news for prospective entrants into this contest: EA, Microsoft, Take-Two, Activision, Ubisoft and every other publisher in the world are running a very similar contest!

Can you post a link to 1 of them please?

[papillon]

What he means is that if you can build an entire MMORPG from scratch, you can go and pitch it to any other big company. Either they'll sign you on and you'll get a deal, or you'll *still have your game* to try and sell it to other companies, or to sell it yourself.

[lennard]

And still own the assets and your code. Bonus is that if you pull it off you will get substantially more than 100k.

[mjuricek]

What he means is that if you can build an entire MMORPG from scratch, you can go and pitch it to any other big company. Either they'll sign you on and you'll get a deal, or you'll *still have your game* to try and sell it to other companies, or to sell it yourself.
you are not building entire MMORPG, just a playable beta version. It will be scalable multiplayer online game. You will own all your assets, you just can't release a game based on same design

[Sybixsus]

Yes, all I'm trying to do is to spread the word. I have no affiliation with Acclaim at all. I'm justa regular member of Top Secret community. But I just don't go spamming forums. I would not post unless I get permission from admins.
Oh. So it's a completely different Martin Juricek who is listed as the Top Secret Project Leader on Garage Games then?

[Ricardo C]

EDIT: Removed because of mjuricejk's subsequent post.

[mjuricek]

Oh. So it's a completely different Martin Juricek who is listed as the Top Secret Project Leader on Garage Games then?

no actually it is my post as well. I would not try to impersonate dp just so i can open up a project add on GG marketplace. However I'm member of advisory board for Project Top Secret I still consider myself just a regular member.


I have no affiliation with Acclaim I ment I do not work for Acclaim or David Perry. I'm volunteer like any other PTS member. You could easily verify that by visiting top secret forums

[Sybixsus]

no actually it is my post as well. I would not try to impersonate dp just so i can open up a project add on GG marketplace.
But you're ok with pretending to be the project leader of something in which you're apparently only a regular member?

[Pyabo]

I'm willing to give mjuricek a break... There's no reason to give him the 3rd degree over a forum tag when there's plenty of *GOOD* reasons to rag on this whole idea. Don't make it personal.

[Andy]

...You will own all your assets, you just can't release a game based on same design

(Pardon! There should be written something. I can't leave this space just empty )

[mjuricek]

But you're ok with pretending to be the project leader of something in which you're apparently only a regular member?

you see when I opened that add it did not give me any other choice. If I could edit the project leader I would. Btw I post a note there that real project leader is David Perry.

[Sybixsus]

I'm willing to give mjuricek a break... There's no reason to give him the 3rd degree over a forum tag when there's plenty of *GOOD* reasons to rag on this whole idea. Don't make it personal.
Oh. Well pardon my "bad idea" of trying to clarify who I was talking to before I made any further comment. I'll refrain from further comment altogether.

[Ricardo C]

I'm willing to give mjuricek a break... There's no reason to give him the 3rd degree over a forum tag when there's plenty of *GOOD* reasons to rag on this whole idea. Don't make it personal.

Well... If he isn't an Acclaim employee, then he has no business "clarifying" rules for anyone, does he?

[Spore Man]

Well... If he isn't an Acclaim employee, then he has no business "clarifying" rules for anyone, does he?
Check and mate!
:cool:

Actually, I read the site's information and the submission is not a complete GAME, but a DEMO. :confused:

BTW, check out the rest of the site and forums. The entire project is being designed off the backs of volunteers, with token rewards like Apple Ipods. :( I wish I didn't have a concience, so I could take advantage of people like this...

[HairyTroll]

I can see how this contest can look bad, but the best way to look at it is to think of it as bidding for a contract. The specs are/will be laid out by the community for the developers to work with. In the end, the team which delivers the "best" product conforming to the specifications wins the contract. This is a common occurrence for large engineering projects.

No, that is not how large engineering projects work. If it was, and if this was a project to build a bridge, then all bidders would have to build approximately 30%-50% of the bridge before knowing if they are to be awarded the contract.

[mairsil]

My point was that there is still considerable work put into a bid with absolutely no guarantee of winning the bid or recovering a single dollar of the design expenses. It is not unreasonable to develop a working prototype in an effort to secure a bid for a software contract. Even though you would not build a full scale prototype with a civil engineering bid, you are still going to have large design costs. As some have alluded to, this might not be the best venue to pick up development teams, but there certainly could be someone on here who wants to participate.

Again, the problem seems to be a misunderstanding of the ownership of everything. The design of the game itself is being done by a community of volunteers. This includes everything from system design to art direction. The actual design and art will remain Acclaim's property.

The physical implementation, the prototype/alpha, is what this "contest" is about. Developers are asked to build suitable implementations of the design decided upon by the community. In the end, the developers will still own all of the code to their implementation, but they will not own any of the design. If the developers want to repurpose their code to some other game design, then they can.

Disclaimer: I worked on this project for several months, up to and including the release of this particular portion of the "contest", so I have intimate knowledge of exactly how this project works. I no longer work on the project solely due to time constraints.

[Sammgus]

The physical implementation, the prototype/alpha, is what this "contest" is about. Developers are asked to build suitable implementations of the design decided upon by the community. In the end, the developers will still own all of the code to their implementation, but they will not own any of the design. If the developers want to repurpose their code to some other game design, then they can.

The physical implementation is a heck of a lot of work. To build on HairyTroll's bridge analogy, you can build 30% of the bridge and if you lose the contest, you keep the 30% complete bridge *but* you can't use it as part of a bridge.

Someone keeps saying it's only a beta version that you need to present, but again you could pitch with that and get at least the same amount, and not have your design invalidated just by pitching it..

[mjuricek]

The physical implementation is a heck of a lot of work. To build on HairyTroll's bridge analogy, you can build 30% of the bridge and if you lose the contest, you keep the 30% complete bridge *but* you can't use it as part of a bridge.

you could use it a part of another bridge but it has to look different (can't use same blueprint)

like mentioned alot before. This project is designed by rookies (which is true) and you guys keep saying that it's not as good opportunity for more experienced/pro teams. In that case you could assume that by entering this contest as a experienced team you would have very high chance to pull together submission that would yield you the contract.

[luggage]

I dunno about all this. Why not let the 'losing' teams keep the rights to all their work?

And where I'm from there's a world of difference between prototype, alpha and beta.

[Matt2East]

I dunno about all this. Why not let the 'losing' teams keep the rights to all their work?

And where I'm from there's a world of difference between prototype, alpha and beta.

I agree, the clause stating participants that don't win forfiet the rights to their work makes the contest format seem like a bum deal. Especially if the intent of the promotion is to attract experienced developers.

[Andy]

Anyone can explain me why we let this continue. Someone publishes some strange new having no any connection to him.
Why this thread isn't locked yet? I believe it already has pretty good development at gamedev.net...

[mairsil]

Why this thread isn't locked yet?

Why would it be? What rules does this thread violate? It's clear that most people here would not be interested in it, but there very well could be some people who are. We can disagree about the merits of the "contest" like we could disagree about the merits of any other game on this board, but there is no reason to lock the thread that I see.

[Backov]

My new contest, inspired by these rules.

You give me $10.

If I like the $10 you gave me, I give you back $20.

All losing contestants forfeit the rights to their $10.

Paypal your entry to yourmoneyismine@example.com. Thanks for playing!

[Spore Man]

Here's how I understood their contest:

The contest participants are NOT submitting an original game! They are supposed to build a beta demo based on TSP's DESIGN. David Perry and the rest of the team are designing the gameplay, game rules, and such things. Art is being built by volunteers who get rewarded with token prizes and the losing art presumably remains the property of the artist. The development contest is for developers to make a playable demo that adheres to that game design TPS has made.

So in that light, it's a sticky situation. On the one hand it's not fair for them to withhold your rights to your IP without compensation. On the other hand, it would really suck for them if all the losing developers turn around and release re-skinned versions of their game.

If I were them I wouldn't have this contest at all. Just hire a solid development team the "normal way" and have them build your game. I really don't see the purpose to this other than to save money and not share any equity.

[yanamal]

hey guys!

I'm a bit late to the discussion* but nevertheless...
(Like Martin, I am a volunteer member of the Advisory Board for the project. Our expertise is that we coordinate with David Perry and Rusel DeMaria(the assistant director for this game) on a semi-regular basis and just in general co-ordinate the project. According to DP, we're kinda like the producers for the game :D )

Spore Man's pretty much got the gist of it - except that Art contest was really just a side-contest to see what cool stuff the Daz3D community could come up with, and not necessarily for getting assets for the game, though some of them may eventually end up as part of it...
We are developing our concept art for the game collaboratively in a task-based process right now...

Top Secret isn't just some random game Acclaim kinda-made-up and now wants someone other than regular devs it usually uses to flesh out and develop it for some reason.

The main point of the whole Project Top Secret thing is that it is (to quote David Perry, I believe) 99.9% community-designed (that is, if David sees something going horribly wrong, he jumps in, but mostly, we do it all ourselves.). And by "community", I mean "whoever wants to join and participate". It's a really experimental thing that David initiated and Acclaim is publishing.

Instead of having a regular developer (which we did try at first), David also started this development contest, which he thought was an appropriate match to the community-designed part (which also has a contest to it: One person from the design community will be chosen to direct Acclaim's next game...).
The TS community - people who aren't (yet) in the game industry - design the game entirely, and indie developers develop it. From both sides, the best get recognition in the industry. The rest get (hopefully valuable) experience and some recognition too.

That's the idea behind the contests; Anybody at all can try to participate and prove themselves, regardless of credentials - only their work matters...
It's definitely all quite experimental and not the "established way" of doing things, but that doesn't mean it's a scam... Just means all the kinks haven't been worked out yet...

-Yana

~~~
*sidenote: so after I register, I have to wait 48 hours until being able to do most things on the forums, unless I PM an Admin, but those things that I can't do include... PMing an admin? peculiar :P

[Andy]

Representatives! :)

Guys! I don't like to offend you but who cares about your PERSONAL opinions when this comes up to money/license issues.
You can interpret their position how ever you like but this just has no any sense.

No offense OK? ;)

[Andy]

Why would it be?

Because I suppose this as pure spam. So far no one of official representatives of the company haven't shown any interest to clarify the questions. So why argue here on empty basis.

But this is probably just my IMHO anyway.

[Andy]

My new contest, inspired by these rules.

You give me $10.

If I like the $10 you gave me, I give you back $20.

All losing contestants forfeit the rights to their $10.

Paypal your entry to yourmoneyismine@example.com. Thanks for playing!

"If I like how I spent your $10..." ;)

I liked your idea Backov! Get me onto your Advisory Board as a volunteer member. :D

[mjuricek]

this is email I just received from David Perry (after visiting this thread)

--- David Perry <> wrote:

The whole thing is an opportunity for new developers
to get a shot at a publishing agreement. (To become
PROFESSIONAL developers.)
If you work on a game, and you don't win. You own
EVERYTHING you did, EVERYTHING you created
(art/engine/program/everything) You just don't own
the COMMUNITY's GAME DESIGN.

dp

[Backov]

Except that you can't copyright a game idea, so he's wrong there.

[mjuricek]

uness you agree not to do it,
dp just commented and tried to clarify the part about "ownership" from the rules page

[Pyabo]

After reading more about this, it definitely sounds less sinister that it first appeared. However, the legal wording in the agreement definitely has to change.

And maybe you need to work on your presentation / marketing. :o

[mjuricek]

After reading more about this, it definitely sounds less sinister that it first appeared. However, the legal wording in the agreement definitely has to change.

And maybe you need to work on your presentation / marketing. :o

they working on it, I bother them about status almost every day

as far as the presentation/marketing I have no experience in that field at all, I'm a programmer not a salesman, sorry again for my ****** job :(

[mjuricek]

just an update for you guys

dp had meeting with dev teams that are participating (2 teams showed up). 1 team made a POC video out of their playable demo (not available yet). And it didn't look bad. They are using source engine. If you interested to see what they came up with in such a short time I can give you the link

[mjuricek]

so far we had 2 video trailers delivered

Merciless Development - please keep in mind that this 1 was done shortly after team enter the contest http://phpbb.acclaim.com/topsecret/viewtopic.php?p=62805&highlight=#62805

Westwood UGT - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYdKEmaRePg

[mjuricek]

rules have been updated, please visit
http://www.videogameteam.com/modcenter/competition.html

[Adrian Cummings]

I've only just seen all this heh.

Good idea with wrong PR approach?, as from what I read to date it all seems to be a bit unprofessional... looks like something that one of the dodgy UK tabloids would cook up to sell more papers.

Also changing rules over time once the contest is open, smacks a little of moving the goal posts to suits your own ends! I suggest Mr. DP gets himself some better PR cover here with some of his cash before his name and indeed ass gets further burnt in public here - ooch!

Have fun tho all that have and do enter :)

[mjuricek]

I've only just seen all this heh.

Good idea with wrong PR approach?, as from what I read to date it all seems to be a bit unprofessional... looks like something that one of the dodgy UK tabloids would cook up to sell more papers.

Also changing rules over time once the contest is open, smacks a little of moving the goal posts to suits your own ends! I suggest Mr. DP gets himself some better PR cover here with some of his cash before his name and indeed ass gets further burnt in public here - ooch!
Have fun tho all that have and do enter :)

There has not been any changes made to rules, but from the response I got before rules were hard to understand (worded incorrectly). It was just reworded and clarified for better understanding.

Like I said before I'm not a PR person or a salesman. And I do not work for dp either. So excuse my unprofessional approach.

some recent renders from 1 of our dev teams
http://phpbb.acclaim.com/topsecret/viewtopic.php?p=65452&highlight=#65452

[Adrian Cummings]

Forgive me for saying but with the sum of money possibly involved here for the eventual winner, I would expect something in terms of PR with a little more presentation behind it as a pitch at developers to enter it - yes?

I have to indeed ask then (no personal offence is intended here) why you represent the contest on here as such when you have no knowledge of such PR and developer interfacing matters etc.

Where are DP's own PR and PA or something given the prize size of this contest - just looks somehow wrong to me?... sorry.

Anyway it's got nothing to do with me so I'll leave it to you guys.

[mjuricek]

I just wanted to help to spread the word around. I'm member of the advisory board for project top secret (I don't like to broadcast it), but I consider myself just a regular member.
Anyway before we had a pro dev team but it wouldn't be a trully community project then. I would assume it would be the same with advertising the project.
I figured that If I approaching indie devs I would get a bit different feedback that I would get from a big company, where selling myself would be the key to success.

[Adrian Cummings]

Ah ha I see, thanks for the update regards your role in it. I'm sure that will further help enlighten others that pass by this thread like I myself did today.

Best wishes anyway ok.

[Anjelus]

Forgive me for saying but with the sum of money possibly involved here for the eventual winner, I would expect something in terms of PR with a little more presentation behind it as a pitch at developers to enter it - yes?

I have to indeed ask then (no personal offence is intended here) why you represent the contest on here as such when you have no knowledge of such PR and developer interfacing matters etc.

Where are DP's own PR and PA or something given the prize size of this contest - just looks somehow wrong to me?... sorry.

Anyway it's got nothing to do with me so I'll leave it to you guys.

Hehe… You really want to hear from PR people? Not the people in the community?

Anyways, In certain circumstances you are correct that more refined and polished PR presentation is required for the nature of this contest, and that has been implemented in several web fronts, most specifically in the partnership with IGN Mod Center. Both Advisory Board members and Individual Top Secret community members have been actively contacting various developer communities to both attract interest and answer general questions or relay links to the contest web front and the project forums.

This is partly to expand the resources to be in contact with the various communities beyond an impersonal e-mailing, or post, but provide a contact "face". But also Advisory Board members and community members are the boots on the ground and are intimately involved with the Project on a day to day basis with the many of the tasks. milestones and design elements.

However, when it comes to matters that require Higher level verification either on the web front, or in more direct developer negotiations, contact with David and Acclaim for those specific matters or in general is reliable and readily available usually within 24 hours or less. Also David and his team is kept appraised of things on a daily or weekly basis as situations warrant or develop.

Our Advisory Board members and Community members are very passionate and invested in the success of the project and seek to actively see it succeed as is David and his team with support from Acclaim. As such, our members wish to reach out and make initial contact to work towards the success of our project, which is why they come to communities to represent the project in the initial and on going contact process.

Also in terms of the Update and some changes to the Contest Rules and Timetables, it was mainly in the way of clarifications and in some situations extensions, as we interact with the development teams whom have signed on to take part in the contest expressed questions, comments and feedback, as well as questions that arise in the process. It is our intention to insure that any and all development teams get the support they require from our Community, Advisory Board, and Staff so they may put their best efforts into their contest submissions. All of which relates to the end result of making our community designed and created game come to life.

In some respects our community members and advisory board is our grass roots PR aparatus, though as I stated above, David is always within contact to address specific questions and concerns from the developer teams and communities and his own PR team works to further contact and ensure all relevant information is given out when required/requested.

To sum it up, The goal is simple, designed by the community, run by the community, developed by the community, winner chosen by the community, played by the community. Yes, now you can add promoted by the community to the list.

AnjelusX
P:TS AB

[mjuricek]

what David Perry had to say about this project
http://www.gameproducer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=926