ANN: Forgotten Riddles - The Mayan Princess

[SteveZ]

Dear current and soon-to-be Indie Authors:

Blue Tea Games is proud to announce the release of Forgotten Riddles, a Big Fish Games exclusive.

You can download the game here (http://www.bigfishgames.com/download-games/1481/forgotten-riddles-the-mayan-princess/index.html)

Screenshots: 1 (http://www.blueteagames.com/forgottenriddles/images/Screen4.jpg) 2 (http://www.blueteagames.com/forgottenriddles/images/Screen3.jpg) 3 (http://www.blueteagames.com/forgottenriddles/images/Screen1.jpg) 4 (http://www.blueteagames.com/forgottenriddles/images/Screen2.jpg)

Story: Based on published Mayan history, the royal family's unfortunate death occurred in 1536. However, recent excavations reveal that journal entries left by the last princess were dated around 1556, 20 years after their supposed demise. As chief archaeologist, you are sent on a mission to uncover the real history behind this tragic event.

This is by far the biggest project I have ever undertaken, my team and I have worked countless nights and hours past dawn to make this game a reality. Enjoy!

-Steve Z.

[DayDream]

It looks beautiful... Great job...

[JGOware]

Seriously....where DO you get graphics like that? Could you please fill us in on who did the graphics and how? Amazing looking.

[chanon]

Looks like a definite best seller .. congratulations!

And yeah maybe I should outsource my graphics to whoever did those backgrounds for you ... amazing!

[SteveZ]

Seriously....where DO you get graphics like that? Could you please fill us in on who did the graphics and how? Amazing looking.

I'll fill you on how this is done.

The project took around 7 to 8 months from start to finish and (15%) first month was spent searching and prepping the artists. Due diligence pays off, so no skipping out on that. I have looked at over 100 art portfolios, narrowed down to 20, asked ~10 to work on a test scene, and choose the best (top 2).

Places I searched: indiegamer, deviantart, cgsociety, and browsing through various blogs. I also have both artists from my previous game in this project as well. Artists who haven't done games before will require more training - that's what the first month is for.

More info on the test scene:
I envision what I want in the game, then draft a document for all artists to follow, which includes: graphic style, what games they should see/play first, time limit, and mockup description.

I asked for a realistic ruined temple and they should see MCF and go from there (always shoot for the best :)). Here are a few samples 1 (http://www.blueteagames.com/temp/caberte.jpg) 2 (http://www.blueteagames.com/temp/white.jpg) 3 (http://www.blueteagames.com/temp/gupte.jpg) 4 (http://www.blueteagames.com/temp/balaji.jpg)

-Steve Z.

[chanon]

That sounds like a very good way to find good artists.

Thanks for sharing that!

[Genimo]

Excelent work, Steve! Best of luck...

[Batley]

Game looks great.

How much did you spend on artwork altogether then if you don't mind answering?

[SteveZ]

Game looks great.

How much did you spend on artwork altogether then if you don't mind answering?

All I can say is art budget is fairly big. An average developer probably won't be able to afford it / want to risk paying that much. It is not because I have very high paid artists, but rather this game demands alot of content.

IMO, finding that special artist isn't the holy grail of building a beautiful game. What makes the artists stand out is that they understand their roles and their skills are utilized effectively. In fact two of my artists have no/very little experience in designing game graphics. There is a period where they just experimented around and I was able to pinpoint what is best for each artist. We spent alot of time working on the first scene, undergoing intensive revisions until I feel the game production is good enough. From there that first scene becomes our benchmark and the rest pretty much rolled out smoothly.

-Steve Z.

[Sirrus]

By far your best game Steve - exponential move.

Good work!

[stanchat]

All I can say is art budget is fairly big. An average developer probably won't be able to afford it / want to risk paying that much. It is not because I have very high paid artists, but rather this game demands alot of content.

IMO, finding that special artist isn't the holy grail of building a beautiful game. What makes the artists stand out is that they understand their roles and their skills are utilized effectively. In fact two of my artists have no/very little experience in designing game graphics. There is a period where they just experimented around and I was able to pinpoint what is best for each artist. We spent alot of time working on the first scene, undergoing intensive revisions until I feel the game production is good enough. From there that first scene becomes our benchmark and the rest pretty much rolled out smoothly.

-Steve Z.

This is some of the most useful and valuable info I have heard in a while. You seemed to have put some game building processes in place either directly or indirectly that you can re-use down the road.

The game is actually really fun. I must admit, I havent played a lot of the MCF stuff but I thought the whole riddle thing was pretty cool.

Good Luck and hope it does great!!

[Qitsune]

I have to say that this game has to be in the top tier of the hidden object games I've seen, graphic-wise. I have only looked at the screenshots but the scenes are very well done and don't look like stock pictures slapped together like other games I've seen.

If it may interest some, I've done a quote for a fairly elaborate hidden object game in the past (I don't want to post the exact specs I was given but it had many levels and a LOT of objects in each level) and I quoted a rate over 10k. Never heard back from the guy. I don't think he had planned that much.

[stanchat]

I was playing level 2 and something kind of odd occurred. i had completed all but Runes 4 & 5 & 7. I then clicked on the "MAP MENU" button which displayed the map screen. I then clicked the map I was currently playing and when it returned me to the game, instead of showing my Runes solved screen like

X X X 4 5 X 7

it instead showed as

1 2 3 X X X X
It did a requery on my un-solved riddles and put them to the front of the queue. This might be by design but thought I would bring it up anyway so you are aware.

[Adrian Cummings]

Not played it (I just don't have time to be honest to play/view everything here) but checked out the screenies and have to say... very nice graphics indeed!

Good stuff.

[mooktown]

looks nice steve, I like the use of cryptic riddles instead of a shopping list, although why a koala bear is in a mayan jungle has me more puzzled ;)

[SteveZ]

I was playing level 2 and something kind of odd occurred. i had completed all but Runes 4 & 5 & 7. I then clicked on the "MAP MENU" button which displayed the map screen. I then clicked the map I was currently playing and when it returned me to the game, instead of showing my Runes solved screen like

X X X 4 5 X 7

it instead showed as

1 2 3 X X X X


This was one of the bigger design process I dealt with early in the production. I ask myself what is the significance of having the rune number link to a particular riddle? - which wasn't much, at all, since no one except savants would remember it anyway. The advantage however of refreshing the numbers is it gives the player instant knowledge of how many runes are left in that scene.

looks nice steve, I like the use of cryptic riddles instead of a shopping list, although why a koala bear is in a mayan jungle has me more puzzled ;)

This is one question many testers often ask me - and there are a few good reasons why those objects are chosen. The goal is to grasp if their question is expressed with curiosity or with complaint. Since it is the former, what can I say :)

-Steve Z.

[Polycount Productions]

Great looking game and congratulations on the launch! Wish you success with sales

[SteveZ]

After rereading the thread, I figured people would be curious to know more about the graphics in more detail. So why not. Using the Observatory scene:

Step 1. I envision the scenery and write a 1 page description

Step 2. My draft artist takes that description and creates a clean pencil image: http://www.blueteagames.com/FR_S1.jpg
* He's the oldest and most experienced artist. The reason he's best for the job is because he nails down perspective not only very well but can translate my document with no trouble at all.

Step 3. I hand the document and pencil image to my painting artist, who colors it: http://www.blueteagames.com/FR_S2.jpg
* She paints extremely well. Her strength is commitment and attention to details - these traits are crucial since this is the most time consuming step.

Step4. I hand the painted picture to my game artist, whom populates and shades the objects: http://www.blueteagames.com/FR_S3.jpg
* He knows how to implement graphics in the game effectively, thus making him the strongest candidate for choosing and placing objects. Not only that, he also writes the riddle objects, thus streamlining the process.

Step5. In some scenes, I have the draft artist re-shade them: http://www.blueteagames.com/FR_S4.jpg
* Only about a third of the scenes undergo this process - the main reason is to enhance the scene's mood.

Now that graphics are out of the way, feel free to talk about the riddles and gameplay design :)

-Steve Z.

[stanchat]

This was one of the bigger design process I dealt with early in the production. I ask myself what is the significance of having the rune number link to a particular riddle? - which wasn't much, at all, since no one except savants would remember it anyway. The advantage however of refreshing the numbers is it gives the player instant knowledge of how many runes are left in that scene.
-Steve Z.

Did you consider maybe displaying a Remaining Puzzles icon and keeping the original Rune state intact? It just kinda threw me aback as both a designer and gameplayer. While I was playing I think I may have subconsiously assigned difficulty value based on the Rune number. Like 2 is harder then 1 and 6 is harder then 5 etc..

As a gameplayer I guess I like my game state to remain as pristine as possible.

[defanual]

Yeah, this looks great:eek:. Thanks for the insight into picking a artist(s) too, very useful information!:)

[Emmanuel]

Congratulations for the clever design and beautiful art, Steven, and for reaching the #1 spot while competing with other excellent titles (Plant Tycoon and Build-a-lot).

Best regards,
Emmanuel

[SteveZ]

Congratulations for the clever design and beautiful art, Steven, and for reaching the #1 spot while competing with other excellent titles (Plant Tycoon and Build-a-lot).

Best regards,
Emmanuel

Dang, you beat me to the punch, I was going to post that result

But thanks for the props Emmanuel :)

If you're my artist and reading this, expect a nice bonus to come your way ;)

-Steve Z.

[TimS]

Congrats to you AND your bonus-receiving artists!

I know at least one that worked REAL hard during the last bit there ;) .

-T

[JGOware]

Yah, if you're one of the 2 artist that worked on this game, post a reply here, I'm sure a few coders here will be knocking. :)

[amaranth]

This is so exciting! The game is STILL #1!!!

I'm keeping track every day. :D

[xelanoimis]

Great game!
Impressive number of riddles.
How that you come up with so many?
Did you (your team) invented them all, or you found some place to get inspired?
I guess it would be pretty hard to invent so many, especially they are in rimes :)
Oh, and are they really "Thousands" as said on the game's description?

[Desktop Gaming]

Only just got around to adding this to my site. I did find some of the riddles to be a little obscurely worded, though. I'd imagine they'll be confusing a lot of people with the way they're written. Nice enough game, though, interesting slant on the now ageing 'seek and find' genre. :)

[SteveZ]

Great game!
Impressive number of riddles.
How that you come up with so many?
Did you (your team) invented them all, or you found some place to get inspired?
I guess it would be pretty hard to invent so many, especially they are in rimes :)
Oh, and are they really "Thousands" as said on the game's description?

We have exactly 1500 unique riddles in the game totaling over 120k of compressed text. Most of them are created by Shawn, UI artist for the game. He's the one who deserves the pat in the back for the riddles, I just make sure we get them done in time (This project took us within 7 months from scratch to finish).

Not trying to self promote (ok maybe just slightly :)), Joel did a great interview a while back, you can find more on FR here:
http://www.gamezebo.com/2007/09/interview_with_steven_zhao_blu.html

-Steve Z.

[Sakura Games]

Hm according to www.games-sales-charts.com your game is already out of any top10... 34 days on BFG. Not really a great result, considering how much time you spent on the game. Best of luck with your next titles though!

[SteveZ]

Hm according to www.games-sales-charts.com your game is already out of any top10... 34 days on BFG. Not really a great result, considering how much time you spent on the game. Best of luck with your next titles though!

It's like kicking a guy in the nuts and giving him ice afterward, it's funny how you blatantly try to spite me.

You assume you know what great result is for me, that 32 days on BFG's Top 10 isn't worth noting, or ignore the fact that FR is growing slow and hasn't been listed on other portals yet. I'm happy at how FR is performing right now, it sells well and users love it (just look at comments from iwin and reflexive). More importantly, I am now living comfortably while doing what I love fulltime. In many ways, creating FR is one of the best decision of my life, then again I could've created a breakout clone with slap together graphics and a mascot frog with down's syndrome, but I prefer not to live off canned beans and government issued milk powder.

-Steve Z.

[Desktop Gaming]

It's like kicking a guy in the nuts and giving him ice afterward, it's funny how you blatantly try to spite me.

You assume you know what great result is for me, that 32 days on BFG's Top 10 isn't worth noting, or ignore the fact that FR is growing slow and hasn't been listed on other portals yet. I'm happy at how FR is performing right now, it sells well and users love it (just look at comments from iwin and reflexive). More importantly, I am now living comfortably while doing what I love fulltime. In many ways, creating FR is one of the best decision of my life, then again I could've created a breakout clone with slap together graphics and a mascot frog with down's syndrome, but I prefer not to live off canned beans and government issued milk powder.

-Steve Z.

***applause***

Was going to reply to this thread earlier saying much the same.

[amaranth]

Hm according to www.games-sales-charts.com your game is already out of any top10... 34 days on BFG. Not really a great result, considering how much time you spent on the game. Best of luck with your next titles though!

Hey Sakura, I wanted to shed some light. ^^

If I were a publisher and I had a game that was doing well on my site, I wouldn't share it with competitors for as long as I could. Maybe this is to get the highest amount of revenue before passing it to competitors? I remember when Carrie the Caregiver came out on Shockwave. It was #1 for quite some time. A couple of months later, it showed up everywhere else, but I suspect that Shockwave didn't want it out until it started to slip in the ratings.

Just my thoughts...

:)

[Sakura Games]

Thanks for your kind reply amanda :) btw when is grimm's hatchery coming out on mac? I don't have a pc, so was looking to play that game on my mac... don't make us mac users wait too long!

To steveZ I'm sorry you think that my frog has down syndrome, it's not true actually, he is the hero of many of my kids customers.

[Desktop Gaming]

Get a room, guys. Srsly. You clearly despise each other so take it private or just ignore each other.

[Sakura Games]

I don't understand how you say that, I just thought the sales of his game weren't so high as he was especting and nothing elsw, maybe he misunterstood me because of my bad english.

And about my frog is true, kids like it even if is poorly designed.

Whatever I'll just stop here, bye.