We all make mistakes... don't we? :) [Archive] - Indiegamer Developer Discussion Boards

Adrian Cummings

09-13-2007, 09:56 AM

[LURK Mode OFF]

As an elder 'experienced' indie I thought you might like a laugh at my expense free of charge instead of all the indie author badge stuff thats going on here lately...

Now I guess I should get a badge for 'twat of the day' as it goes like this...

I have my latest PC casual product out at several well known PC publishers for evaluation... I then thought why not try Big Fish Games and Reflexive (both new ground to me)... so I did earlier today as it happens... more the merrier perhaps?... er no read on...

OK what's the problem then?... well, never block copy and paste a submission email courting business to multiple publishers with one aimed at Reflexive along the lines of... " Hi Big Fish are you interested in blah blah blah".

Their response was a 'not impressed' "We are not Big Fish!" - I apologised right away but the damage was done already methinks - oh dear.

This all happened because I work about 12 hours a day flat out and then the phone rang while I was ammending the second mail for a resend to Reflexive guys and missed the 'Big Fish' in it... ooch... if you guys are perhaps reading this I'm sorry once again if I offended you but the game is kinda taken anyway in the hour or so since I mailed you - I will never bother you again I promise! :)

Please award me the badge that has printed on it "he might be old and wrote loads of games and has indie tales to tell - but what a twat!" :)

I thank you!

[LURK Mode ON]

Jamie W

09-13-2007, 10:10 AM

More importantly (than big reflexive fish) ... where'd you get those cute stuffed toys made up Adrian?

Adrian Cummings

09-13-2007, 10:18 AM

Hi Jamie,

I had them made by plush toy company Shinwoo (long since gone now?) in the far east back 2002. There are only about 90 left from the thousands made and many given away back then as a marketing stunt locally mainly - meaning I guess they are very rare now and are of superb quality to boot!

As far as I know I'm the only person in the world with them in all the colours -there sitting on the shelf to my right all looking at me right now :)

The Dweebs titles have been very good for me over the years since their conception in '98, so it's Dweebs forever in various forms yet to come until I shuffle off the planet I guess!

P.S. I can't be arsed to lurk anymore... 1-day lurking is enough for any creative person to deal with - I like and prefer talking :)

zoombapup

09-13-2007, 10:21 AM

So is Dweebs really supporting you right now? Or is it a sideline?

Just wondering if thats a long term buildup thing, or a "it was a surprise hit" thing?

Jamie W

09-13-2007, 10:23 AM

I may get some ducks made up for my own game, really like the idea.

Wasn't Dweebs one of Mr Pavlina's creations? I'm guessing you've taken the IP over? (I maybe completely wrong here, in which case, my appologies). EDIT: Perhaps I'm confusing DweeBs and DweePs? OK, I'm gonna shut up now.

Best of luck with your current project.

Jamie.

P.S. Are you sure it wasn't 1-day sulking, due to lack of shiney new I'm an indie developer badge?

Adrian Cummings

09-13-2007, 10:40 AM

I may get some ducks made up for my own game, really like the idea.

Wasn't Dweebs one of Mr Pavlina's creations? I'm guessing you've taken the IP over? (I maybe completely wrong here, in which case, my appologies).

Best of luck with your current project.

Jamie.

P.S. Are you sure it wasn't 1-day sulking, due to lack of shiney new I'm an indie developer badge?

Yes go for it, it's 'almost' good fun but decent storage was a real problem in the past days for me - i'm glad that's over :P

Regards Dweebs, no that is something I have to live with forever it seems Steve wrote 'Dweep' and it was a different game at exactly the same point in the past as I did 'Dweebs'... we of course had a brief conversation about it and both agreed that it was'nt a problem... truth be told I did Dweebs about year earlier as a C++ test project (before it was published by eGames et al) :)

Thanks and regards the badge thing I'm not worried really either way tho I choose to let others in higher mod positions decide if they want to label my posts or not - I'm happy is as (although plain lurking is real tricky heh!)

Cheers,

Adrian Cummings

09-13-2007, 10:52 AM

So is Dweebs really supporting you right now? Or is it a sideline?

Just wondering if thats a long term buildup thing, or a "it was a surprise hit" thing?

Dweebs has been a decent earner for me until about 18 months ago, yes it was a surprise popular hit back in the day (it's old now - the original of course) but still sells 8-9 years on in multipack deals around the planet mainly.

Dweebs 2 was'nt as popular but did ok I guess for what it was.

Dweebs 3 is much like Dweebs 1 but a little more shiny perhaps and runs on Vista also.

The key thing that works for me isn't just living off one game to the next, rather I'm into everything including contracting to bring in the wonga.

Then there is mobile which has it's up and downs all of it's own.

I recently took on some more small art jobs as well as some NDA stuff I can't really talk about here - but that is pretty cool.

I'm into lots of 'micro payments' from lots of content and deals not really big hits (although I always welcome them!) so that way I can survive if I loose half the revenue streams from one or more of the games... I change to meet the requirements of the day in that very case to stay afloat as an indie and have done that since '89 pretty much - that's my secret anyway that works for me at least.

Dan MacDonald

09-13-2007, 11:25 AM

For your glorious participation you have been awarded the honorary "Indie Author" badge!

I have to say, there are a lot more Indie Authors around then I thought. It's great though!

Desktop Gaming

09-13-2007, 01:06 PM

OK what's the problem then?... well, never block copy and paste a submission email courting business to multiple publishers with one aimed at Reflexive along the lines of... " Hi Big Fish are you interested in blah blah blah".

Their response was a 'not impressed' "We are not Big Fish!" - I apologised right away but the damage was done already methinks - oh dear.I must try that with Reflexive since they don't seem to answer e-mails which are addressed to the correct name. :rolleyes: If I'd known they answered right away when you call them "Big Fish" I could perhaps have found out if they've signed their bit of the contract yet or not, weeks ago. :cool:

Ignorance is one of my biggest pet hates. I'm guessing they haven't signed their bit of the contract and aren't going to. Still, it'd be nice to know instead of leaving it to guesswork.

cliffski

09-13-2007, 01:54 PM

Does it really matter if you get a name wrong in an email? Its not like you are emailing two different wives who don't know about each other. No portal publisher can really think that anyone who submits to them is not going to submit to others surely?
Granted it shows you don't double check your emails and can be a bit confused or sloppy, but as a publisher I'd want people that make marketable games, I wouldn't care what their email-organisation-fu was like.
If I'd got that email, it would have given me a chuckle, but no offence.

Artinum

09-14-2007, 09:21 AM

I dunno. If you don't check your email text, whatever is your bug testing like?

cliffski

09-14-2007, 09:26 AM

Desktop Gaming

09-14-2007, 09:40 AM

a different area of expertise entirely?
If you go down that road, you end up only employing people who dress smartly, on the basis that if they take care over their dress, they will take care over everything else.
I'd rather employ a disorganised and forgetful genius, than a well-turned out and reliable idiot :D

I'm not saying its not a dumb thing to do*, just shouldn't be a deal breaking issue in my opinion. YMMV.

*but easily done I assure you.I appreciate I'm going massively off topic here, but I've worked for all sorts of companies and generally, I feel much more relaxed and comfortable in a 'casual' environment, than in a battery-farm type environment where everyone wears shirts and ties. Therefore I'm much more productive that way.

I hate formal dress. I'm from the rough end of Barnsley for God's sake!

sillytuna

09-14-2007, 09:43 AM

Does it really matter if you get a name wrong in an email?

Well, yes, I think it does matter, but not much. It's just not a good start - bad psychology and creates a poor impression. Everyone makes that mistake sometime though.

Edit: Just make light of it, as most people on the other end will. Turn it into a positive :)

It matters a lot more on job applications. Anyone CCing multiple companies or giving me a generic letter with the wrong name is probably not going to be interviewed.

Sybixsus

09-14-2007, 09:50 AM

I did something very similar to you when approaching portals. I think it was the other way around though. I think I approached BigFish with a password protected download and I forgot that I'd set the password to Reflexive123 or something like that, which must have tipped them off that I'd just sent a very similar email to Reflexive. Fortunately, BigFish were way too classy to even say anything, let alone let it cause any damage.

Since you struck another deal so quickly, I guess it was Reflexive's loss anyway.

cyrus_zuo

09-14-2007, 09:56 AM

[LURK Mode OFF]

Their response was a 'not impressed' "We are not Big Fish!" - I apologised right away but the damage was done already methinks - oh dear.

Might I suggest that the email response was intended to be humorous?

Since I happen to work at Reflexive I'll got out on a limb and say a situation is being created that didn't exist. It's one of the wonders of email, and I think everyone occassionaly replies in a way that is misunderstood (and some replies that aren't!). I would worry more about the replies that aren't than the ones that are ;).

Adrian Cummings

09-14-2007, 01:52 PM

For your glorious participation you have been awarded the honorary "Indie Author" badge!

I have to say, there are a lot more Indie Authors around then I thought. It's great though!

Just spotted that - cheers!

Adrian Cummings

09-14-2007, 01:58 PM

Might I suggest that the email response was intended to be humorous?

Since I happen to work at Reflexive I'll got out on a limb and say a situation is being created that didn't exist. It's one of the wonders of email, and I think everyone occassionaly replies in a way that is misunderstood (and some replies that aren't!). I would worry more about the replies that aren't than the ones that are ;).

Of course I agree - but although I made a minor mistake here, it was plain to see I was courting business from you guys also and to be honest your own repsonse was a little curt perhaps? so was difficult to guage humuor level from in reality as you say... well from my point of view anyway :)

Never mind it's all over now pretty much.

Polycount Productions

09-15-2007, 02:14 AM

[LURK Mode OFF]
OK what's the problem then?... well, never block copy and paste a submission email courting business to multiple publishers with one aimed at Reflexive along the lines of... " Hi Big Fish are you interested in blah blah blah".

Their response was a 'not impressed' "We are not Big Fish!" - I apologised right away but the damage was done already methinks - oh dear.

Well, everybody from UK/USA keeps calling me "jusso" and sending emails to "jusso@something..." instead of juuso and even when *I email them first* :) It's not a big deal really.

Naturally you made a mistake here, but I'd simply forget it (I know others will). These guys are getting tons of proposals... so who can remember if one company accidentally put wrong name. Give it 6 months and nobody cares.

Oh, and a tip for the future: Don't put company names in the emails if you are really in a rush...[/b]. It's not as personal (which is bit bad), at least you are playing safe with the emails. That way you are simply copy pasting "Dear publisher..."

And for the record: I've emailed my friend "John" just to realize I accidentally emailed OTHER "John"... since the email address was autofilled... :)

... and that's why I also have the badge. :rolleyes:

Adrian Cummings

09-15-2007, 03:26 AM

Good advice.. point taken and uploaded into brain! :)

Polycount Productions

09-15-2007, 03:42 AM

Good advice.. point taken and uploaded into brain! :)

Oh... and make sure sure James C. Smith (one of the moderators) doesn't see this thread :D

ChrisP

09-15-2007, 06:19 AM

Well, everybody from UK/USA keeps calling me "jusso" and sending emails to "jusso@something..." instead of juuso and even when *I email them first* :) It's not a big deal really.

I once had someone called Christophor (with an O) from a review site email me requesting a review copy of Mayhem Intergalactic (which of course I obliged). His name caused me all sorts of problems because I'm so used to typing Christopher (with an E), as that's my name! Even after noticing the difference and being very careful to spell his name correctly, I still misspelled it a few times... :o

It's easy to do.

Andy

09-15-2007, 10:00 AM

"Dear BigFish, Reflexive, Real One, or whoever you are..." perhaps... ;)

Adrian Cummings

09-15-2007, 10:15 AM

I should of just put 'Hi, Big-Reflexive-Fish' as Jamie W said at the top of this thread then! :)

If somebody did this to me I would'nt think it very professional really, but I would still see what it was they were pitching, as we all make mistakes. As I said this one slipped thru due to general overwork & confusion my end and nothing else.

It won't happen again and I'm over it, but hope it gave you a laugh and a lesson in how NOT to do it :)

princec

09-15-2007, 10:16 AM

Dear Bloodsucking Leeches / Parasites / Satan's Minions, ...

j/k

Cas :)

Polycount Productions

09-15-2007, 11:23 AM

Dear Bloodsucking Leeches / Parasites / Satan's Minions, ...

j/k

Cas :)

Ah, so it was you who emailed me yesterday...

Jesse Hopkins

10-14-2007, 08:25 PM

I'd rather employ a disorganised and forgetful genius, than a well-turned out and reliable idiot :D

This is why we get along

Sysiphus

10-15-2007, 12:26 PM

I'd rather employ a disorganised and forgetful genius, than a well-turned out and reliable idiot

Unluckily, too many companies are full of the second type workers, also bosses with big egos prefer often those, even knowing what they loose...

The fact is, an obedient, organized, but unable to think new solutions kind of guy, is what populates almost totally many technology companies, there where I+D is key...is not what imho will make that huge difference that all these companies are needing to have over the rest...if you want to be bleeding edge, have genius solutions...well, you need the genius.

Mark Sheeky

10-15-2007, 01:19 PM

I'd rather employ a disorganised and forgetful genius, than a well-turned out and reliable idiot :D

Those two sound like the London Mayor candidates :D

Mark

Spore Man

10-15-2007, 01:36 PM

It's not all so black n white. I've worked with comp sci PHDs who were clueless and useless because they were so used to the "academic" way of doing things, research, theory, etc as opposed to hands-on. The other problem is "geniuses" who think they can solve problems through their sheer superiority of intellect rather than listening to the experienced "workers".

I had a director of an entire development studio ask me why I couldn't just "paint" an entire console game level in a paint program. He hired an ex military coder, and a database programmer and put them as lead programmers for console games. Needless to say, those guys accomplished next to nothing, and took 4 times as long doing it. He hired an old cartoonist as head of the graphics dept, despite the guy having never used a computer. None of the artists respected him. The director wouldn't listen to anyone with experience. He knew everything and had the PHD to prove it. The real talented coders quit. The department's entire successful game line-up came off the sweat of the one programmer who stayed, and a team of professional animators.

At another company, a high-priced Comp Sci PHD had to be let go from a lead programmer position after a little over a month, because he just didn't seem to know what he was doing.

It's very frustrating to work with people who have been "certified" for their IQ, rather than have demonstrated ability via their work.

Jamie W

10-15-2007, 01:57 PM

Nice stories Spore Man.

As a matter of interest, after I left school, I did a 2 year BTEC Computer Studies Course (zzzzzzz); I remember skipping class often, to go visit the local arcade in town, where I got my real education (playing Guantlet, Star-Force, Krull, Flicky and the like, all day long). I remember even back then, I was already coding in Assembler on the Beeb, and the chaps at college wanted me to learn all about Pascal, and Charles Babbage (no wonder I failed the course after year 1).

Anyho, I defo think practical experience and learning how to do things your own way, counts for an awful lot more that just doing things the way you've been taught (without understanding why).