Flash Games? - Thoughts on sponsorships and other ways to leverage them.

[AdamSchroeder]

I've been a long time lurker in this forum with a particular interest in people trying to capitalize from their flash games. [search for sponsor and you will find a few]

Recently I released a game and I've spent a tremendous amount of time over these past months researching sponsorship and other ways to capitalize on your game. I still have a LOT more work to do but I believe it has reached a point where it will have value to other developers. So I wanted to release it now and start getting additional input from people as I more forward.

In addition to my thoughts I also have a writeups from John at CrazyMonkeyGames, Greg from Kongregate and Joe from ArcadeTown. There is also an article from Simon at Ezone.com (a successful independent game company) that will try to convince you that a sponsorship is not the best approach.

Please let me know what you think of the site!

Flash Game Sponsorship (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com)


Also, I was wondering if anyone has explored the idea of building a mini flash game to promote your "bigger" non-flash game. This could serve as a way to promote and drive traffic to your site.

[Spore Man]

Also, I was wondering if anyone has explored the idea of building a mini flash game to promote your "bigger" non-flash game. This could serve as a way to promote and drive traffic to your site.

Of course. It's done all the time.

[KNau]

Excellent site! You did a good job of covering both the pros and cons of sponsorship deals.

[mrkwang]

Also, I was wondering if anyone has explored the idea of building a mini flash game to promote your "bigger" non-flash game. This could serve as a way to promote and drive traffic to your site.

POPCAP did it all the time.

Anyway, they used it that method to let people d/l game, not just promote their site.

[Bad Sector]

This is a very good site :-). Also i like the "simple" design, it helps focus on the content :D.

Too bad that many people don't accept Java games... i already have a working framework in Java for webgames, but still i need to remake everything in haXe if i want to make Flash games (well, i'm remaking it, but... why? :-P).

[AdamSchroeder]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the kind words!

Truly if anyone here has had experience in the flash game world I would love to hear from you (and maybe have you write a small article for me). :)

I've seen a lot of threads here where people are talking about promoting their games and I don't recall seeing people suggest the "make a flash game" route.

AR 3 has had 800,000 people play it over the past 3 weeks. About 1% of them clicked on the evilfree logo to come to my site. If the game was designed to actually bring people to your site... I bet you could hit a 10-20% click through rate easily.

I'm not sure what it would cost through ads to bring 80,000 people (that like the 'idea' of your game) to your site.

[datxcod]

I work as a flash developer and making a flash version of your game is a good idea to attract people to your own site. The problem is that not all games can be successfully "ported" to flash. Unless it's a simple arcade/puzzle/find the hidden object game, it would be like creating a simplified version of your game from the ground up, while trying to keep all the features that make the game fun (since it has be really fun to really draw attention to your website).

[KNau]

Just bumping this thread because I think it's worth mentioning the speed with which sponsorships are paid. I have no confirmation (perhaps the original poster could verify) but I've heard that payment happens pretty quick, ie. less than a week from closing the deal. I only mention it because the downloadable business can be so friggin slow when it comes to payments.

Also, rereading Ezone's piece, he shuns sponsorship deals advocating posting the game on your own site to collect ad revenue instead.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you can do that anyways. I haven't seen any sponsorship terms that would preclude you from posting the game on your own site and collecting a monthly passive income on top of your sponsorship. And looking at the Alexa rankings of a few developer (not portal) sites - it's pretty clear that an impressive amount of traffic gets funneled back to the developer, even with sponsor logos everywhere.

I'm not sure it has to be an either / or situation - does it?

[Bad Sector]

My experience with two (flash?) portals is that they indeed pay very fast :-).

[Andy]

Well. This is more important for me to get paid A LOOOOOT instead of fast. :D
All licenses for our Flash games were paid in the time frames of agreements though. So I don't know what else should I expect. :) There wasn't a sponsorship deals though.

PS Let see how fast and big would be the payment made for this one:
http://www.flasssh.com/blobbop/
Yep guys and ladies. This is our new game announcement. :p No any screenshots... :D

[AdamSchroeder]

I believe most sponsors pay very fast. I had my check from CrazyMonkeyGames within a week after giving him the final file.

That said... I'm totally with Andy on getting paid "A LOT" instead of "FAST".

You can host host your sponsored game on your site. The difference is that most people will not play the game on your site when its available everywhere else on the web.

I've making about $1.50/day on google ads from people clicking on my logo and visiting my page.

If the only place to play the game was your site. Or if you made a "demo" version to spread on the web with a link back to play the full version your ad income would DRASTICALLY increase.

The more game you have on your site the more each visitor is worth. Since they will likely play more then one.

I'm really happy you guys are finding it useful. I'm getting a lot of great feedback from other places as well.

I was wondering if you anyone could recommend other places where I could try promoting the site? Or if you are feeling particularly generous you could make a blog or forum posting about it. :)

Thanks so much!

Adam

[Spore Man]

I've making about $1.50/day on google ads from people clicking on my logo and visiting my page.

If you make that much with Google Ads, I predict you'd make about 10x to 100x that if you joined up with a proper ad supplier like ValueClickMedia, Burst, or Tribal Fusion.

[AdamSchroeder]

I'm near a $2 eCPM do those companies average a lot higher then that?

[Genimo]

If you make that much with Google Ads, I predict you'd make about 10x to 100x that if you joined up with a proper ad supplier like ValueClickMedia, Burst, or Tribal Fusion.

Sorry, but are you speaking based on your own experience or are you speculating?

[Spore Man]

Sorry, but are you speaking based on your own experience or are you speculating?

Own experience of course.

[Genimo]

Own experience of course.

Spore Man, I would really appreciate if you could share little bit more about your experience! Maybe you can post your URL so we can see what ad layout you are using.

You see, I've tried myself pretty much all the ad providers that you listed (Google, ValueClick, Tribalfusion, etc.) and in my case Google AdSence beat the rest in eCPM (i.e. actual payout on 1,000 page impressions) by ~5x. And my eCPM with Google was similar to what AdamSchroeder quited above.

Thanks!

[Spore Man]

Maybe I have the opposite problem and just have not monetized Google Ads properly:

www.LilGames.com (http://www.lilgames.com)

As a point of reference, about half my traffic comes through the front page which has a 125x125 ad. Other size formats rotate into the other ad spots.

[AdamSchroeder]

I’ve added write-ups from ArmorGames and MaxGames to the www.flashgamesponsorship.com site.

You can see whats new: Flash Sponsorship Blog (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/blog/)

[Andy]

Adam, I was wondering really why are you doing this?

As far as I'm able to figure out whole this sponsorship BS is most dirty way of fooling developers around. They get your IP exclusively for terribly low money.

I'm young in the area and probably was just increadibly lucky to find really reputable and supporting partners publishing our Flash stuff but check what established Flash game developers say on issue:

http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?t=675716&highlight=game+sponsorship

REM: There is even more detailed discussion in that forums on issue. But it was got derailed on 12 if not more pages (as always in gamedev forums :) ) so I wouldn't disturb you with that link.

Looking at your activity I assume you are game developer so far. So why to help portals with promotion of this? :)

[soniCron]

http://board.flashkit.com/board/show...me+sponsorship (http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?t=675716&highlight=game+sponsorship) Given this conversation, that's a pretty funny truncation! ;)

[Andy]

Given this conversation, that's a pretty funny truncation! ;)


This is not about "ME" for sure. :D

[AdamSchroeder]

Adam, I was wondering really why are you doing this?


Hi Andy,

Thanks for the excellent question. My motive is to help developers get the best sponsorship deal possible or convince them to try another approach instead of a sponsorship.

Sponsorships have gotten a bad rap due to many portals ripping off developers. There is no denying that.

However with enough competition you can get very good sponsorship deals. The trick is you MUST talk to many different portals and most inexperienced developers don't do this or are willing to snatch the first offer they get even when someone else would have paid 4x more. One main goal of the site was to list out the steps and make sure a developer contacts as many portals as possible instead of simply dealing with the first one that talks with them.

I've spoken to the Rich (the original author of that thread) and things have changed a lot in the past 18 months.

While its true that some sites will only pay you $300-$500 for your game. Another one might pay you $3000 (I got considerably more then this with Asteroids Revenge III).

If you don't sponsor your game then you must sell non-exclusive licenses which is currently very difficult to contact enough sites to make it worth while.

OR, you host the game yourself and try to directly make money from the advertising. This is not a trivial tasks to most developers and unless your game is really good its very possible to make less from advertising then a sponsor would have paid you.

I've made maybe $40 (in 3-4 months) from Asteroids Revenge II via advertising when I could have gotten $400-$500 in a sponsorship deal.

There truly isn't a 'right way' and 'sponsorships!=evil' each situation is different. I try to provide a balanced view from many different angles on the site.

-Adam

[Andy]

There truly isn't a 'right way'...

Oh, this is for sure, Adam.
Thanks for your answer and your vision delivered through website.

I admit you are very detailed in your explorations and suggestions on issue of stealing of IP through sponsorship. OK-OK, sure I'm kidding. :D

[AdamSchroeder]

Hey Guys!

I've got some great new content on Flash Game Sponsorship (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/)

Kongregate's Premium Game Program (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/kongregatePremium.html) (they will fund your game 20k-100k and you will keep all IP)

Flipline Studios (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/indieDeveloperPerspectiveFlipline.html) (creator of Papa Louie) - offers tips & advice on promoting your game if you publish it yourself.

MochiAds (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/mochiAds.html) - In game advertising system to help you earn extra revenue while your game travels across the internet. They will also help distribute your game.

XGenStudios (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/portalPerspectiveXGenStudios.html) - Article on sponsorships and publishing opportunities. They are focusing on MP games and even have a custom server MMOcha they are making available.

Also, I'm trying to compile a list of games and how much they received in sponsorship. This will be a huge help for new developers to gauge the value of their work. If you are willing to share these details (check with your sponsor first) please contact me (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/requestForHelp.html)!

Sponsored Games - How much money did they get? (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/howMuchDidYourSponsoredGameGet.html)

[Andy]

Kongregate's Premium Game Program (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/kongregatePremium.html) (they will fund your game 20k-100k and you will keep all IP)

Yeah. This one above doesn't even answer regular emails. Can imagine how it would be to beat off some money from them.

Thanks for your input anyway, Adam. This is not your fault how all these guys work. :D

[cpasley]

Yeah. This one above doesn't even answer regular emails. Can imagine how it would be to beat off some money from them.

Thanks for your input anyway, Adam. This is not your fault how all these guys work. :D

Erm? I answer every email I get from the submissions@kongregate.com email, unless the spam filter gets it or for some reason or other I miss it (which I'm usually careful not to.) Sorry if I missed your email. If you want to try again I'll scan the spam filter for it just in case.

[Andy]

Erm? I answer every email I get from the submissions@kongregate.com email, unless the spam filter gets it or for some reason or other I miss it (which I'm usually careful not to.) Sorry if I missed your email. If you want to try again I'll scan the spam filter for it just in case.

Oh, well. Tried it again. ( Haven't noticed your message here so made this just for luck ;) ) But no luck again... :(

Let we perhaps start with some discussion through PMs here? :)

[cpasley]

Ah, no, I found it. It was getting caught by Gmail's spam filter. I'll take a look and get back to you soon.

[Andy]

Ah, no, I found it. It was getting caught by Gmail's spam filter. I'll take a look and get back to you soon.

Well. Could be this was the next one - sent one more by yesterday.
Anyway thanks God at least somebody still works in the industry. :)

Thanks cpasley.

[AdamSchroeder]

I've added some more great content to the site! Hope you guys don't mind the bump.

Grant from Ratuba Games (Brink of Alienation series) - Independent Developer (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/indieDeveloperPerspectiveRatuba.html)

Brian from ArcadeTown - thoughts on sponsorships (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/portalPerspectiveArcadeTownBrian.html)

FlowPlay - looking for non-exclusive licenses and custom work (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/licensePerspectiveFlowPlay.html)

Gimme5Games - Sponsorships & Revenue Sharing (http://www.flashgamesponsorship.com/portalPerspectiveGimme5Games.html)