the no demo triple A madness

[cliffski]

There is NO demo of Sid meiers new Pirates game.
Am I interested in buying it? YES
Will I gamble £35 on it being any good? NO
So I have to resort to trawling the P2P programs looking for a hacked copy, and if none is found, there is no sale.
This is insanity.
why dont they do it?
surely not ALL their potential customers buy on hype alone?
bah!

[JoeMaru]

but that is how the game industry works for big titles. Hype sells.. not quality.

Why lose a potential sale on someone who would spend the money to get it (but plays the demo then decides it is not worth it).

Better to just ignore those that like to demo before buying and concentrate on getting the $$$ of those who will buy it based on marketing hype.

Note that this is not how I think it *should* be.. but it works.

[EpicBoy]

The truth of the matter is that hardcore early adopters will buy the game anyway, so it makes sense to release the game as soon as it's ready and work on the demo during the initial sales period where the demo is all but irrelevant anyway. Then, a few weeks later, the demo hits and the people who needed convincing will start buying at that time.

[PoV]

Yeah, watch me reminis, and attempt to back up Epicboy's point with me as the guinnipig.

It was a sad day, some months ago (perhaps last year) I was totally psyched to get and play Diversion's One Must Fall 2, being a huge fan of #1 (the finest 2D fighter on the PC :D). I was ready to buy the game, but it ends up it was delayed. The developer was nice enough to release a demo to compensate for the delay, so I quickly grabbed that up. *gasp*, I was gonna buy this? Now I was happy to save the $50, but this bastard child of a 3d shooter and fighter ruined me and one of my greatest childhood gaming memories, and I'll never be the same. :D. Now I play Soul Callibur 2.

Flip side. Gish. Game was released without a demo. I paniced! I had to play this game, so I bought it on an impulse. The controls did feel a tad clumsy (can't think of how to improve them however), but I got what I wanted out of the game. Had there been a demo, I have just played that and been satisfied.

So yeah, given what I've seen, I think the trick is to build some hype, release the game, then take your time and do the demo thang. At least that's what I plan to try.

Which should bring us to our next topic, how to build hype? :D. Someone else feel free to start that one.

Another one, for fun. Painkiller. This game is cool. I would have never bought the game anyways, but they have one of the finest demo's I've played, a fantastic showing of Havok at the time. But unlike other demo's, it appears to jump all over the place. They appear to give you 3 or 5 unconnected levels to play (either that or I'm too ignorant to figure out that they are connected), where most games give you the first few or a chapter. Now, is that a good way to preview a game? I have my doubts, but I'd like to hear to hear other thoughts.

[Diodor Bitan]

They probably will release a demo movie, so you can decide on that.

[cliffski]

a movie is no good. games are all about interaction. a movie of a game is like watching the pop video without hearing the song.
Its not hard for games companies to make demos, even though they claim its too much work. Unless your hype exceeds the quality of the game, you should always release a demo.
sadly with most titles, the hype DOES exceed the wuality of the game ;(

[BongPig]

In the UK, quite a few stores have no-questions returns within 10-14 days of buying.
You can be sure I take full advantage. Buy it. Play it. Get your money back. Lovely. :)

Ive never ever downloaded a demo for a retail game. Above method is much better.

[DangerCode]

Sometimes it is very hard to push a game out the door and then garner up the strength for a good demo. I wouldn't be surprised if a demo was to come later but first the devs probably need a break.

[Vectrex]

its like a shop that doesn't have a price tag on anything, I walk straight out the door :)

[GrahamGoring]

In the UK, quite a few stores have no-questions returns within 10-14 days of buying.
You can be sure I take full advantage. Buy it. Play it. Get your money back. Lovely. :)

Ive never ever downloaded a demo for a retail game. Above method is much better.

I know it's a little late, but I've completed Mutant Storm and Space Tripper now so can I have my money back please? ;)

[BongPig]

Graham, obviously I keep the truly excellent games!
;)

[Jack Norton]

In the UK, quite a few stores have no-questions returns within 10-14 days of buying.
You can be sure I take full advantage. Buy it. Play it. Get your money back. Lovely
Is this true? Here in Italy you can only change back a game with another copy in case the original one doesn't work for some reason... but no way you can get your money back :)

Nice place the UK ;)

[GrahamGoring]

Graham, obviously I keep the truly excellent games!
;)

So do I. So can I get my money back then? ;)

<Jerry Springer> Wooooooo! </Jerry Springer>

[GBGames]

There are plenty of stores in the U.S. that won't take software back unless it is for an exchange of the same exact software. They won't give credit or refunds. I suppose it is to combat piracy, but it makes me more wary about buying retail games.

[GrahamGoring]

Even in the UK I hear they're starting to limit it with GAME soon not allowing exchanging of PC games and they've always limited other game exchanges to 3 in a row (and really, if you need to exchange that many in a row you should be perhaps reading reviews or maybe even the back of the box before making your "pin the tail on the donkey" style selection).

[BongPig]

I can understand not allowing PC game returns, as they are so easy to copy.

However, the 3 exchanges in a row only counts if you exchange your game for another one. Silly move! NEVER DO THAT. Always get a cash refund and then buy another game. This way, no limits.

The UK rocks!! :)

[BongPig]

So do I. So can I get my money back then? ;)

<Jerry Springer> Wooooooo! </Jerry Springer>


:D
Good one!

[EpicBoy]

Or, if you are in the states, www.gamefly.com . Rent all the console games you want for $20/month. Get them, finish them and/or get tired of them, send them back and they send you more. Awesome...

[Anthony Flack]

I can understand not allowing PC game returns, as they are so easy to copy.

Still, it is also by far the most likely platform to exhibit "I bought this but it doesn't work on my machine" tendencies.

[GrahamGoring]

:D
Good one!

I thankyew!

I do agree that it's madness not to make a demo, though. Preferentially one that arrives before the game itself does. I mean after watching the Gish movie and knowing "you can't have this yet!" it made me want to buy it even more. Actually, that may be an argument against demos and for movies. Damn.

Anyhoo, I certainly would never take a punt on spending any money on any product unless I was absolutely sure I'd love it (ie, Half Life 2 and Doom 3 - although the latter one bit me in the arse as it wasn't so hot, IMHO). Even the idea of paying $15 for an indie game which I wasn't sure about sticks in my craw. There are only a very few people on this board whose games I'd actually buy without playing them first, maybe 3 at most, and that's only because for me they're like the Valves and IDs of the indie world.

[cliffski]

glad I'm not alone. by the time lionhead releases the Movies, I'll have worked for 3 years on a title that I know won't have a demo. To me, this means everyone who buys the product will buy it on the basis of hype, which means the marketing dept contribute way more to its success than any code I write, which (to put it mildly) is demotivating.
I'm not sure anyone really believes a word they read in reviews these days, especially post driver3. :(

[EpicBoy]

Hell, after reading the various Halo:PC and Doom3 reviews I've given up on reviewers as a source of information.

[Teq]

Never mind Cliff, we love ya ;)

[Coyote]

Traditionally I have waited on reviews before committing to buying a AAA game. But it's true... these days enough hype and marketing pressure will result in pretty much useless reviews. You are either going to get the "They paid our salaries for a whole YEAR with their advertising! Of course they are wonderful!" reviews, or the anti-hype backlash that is even MORE useless and devoid of useful information.

But there are a few developers & franchises I have enjoyed so thoroughly that I will get their games sight-unseen, pre-ordered perhaps. Bioware is one of them. Maddox / 2c has me convinced that they OWN the WW2 combat flight simulator market. And while I thought Age of Mythology wasn't their strongest offering, I think Ensemble is a safe bet.

I *used* to feel that way about SimTex & the Master of Orion series. MOO3 broke that spell. Sid Meyer is USUALLY a safe bet, but I heard their multiplayer version of Civ 3 was abysmal.

Reputation is an interesting thing.