Playstation Network + WiiWare

[voxel]

Just curious on whether anybody explored either of these routes and your thoughts/experiences on how open Sony and Nintendo (now) are to indies.

[Jesse Hopkins]

I read somewhere that WiiWare was going to require a dev kit purchase and license granted, so it doesn't seem all that Indie to me. Let's just say, not as open as XNA

[Polycount Productions]

I read somewhere that WiiWare was going to require a dev kit purchase and license granted, so it doesn't seem all that Indie to me. Let's just say, not as open as XNA

Yep, so it seems to go.

[voxel]

I read somewhere that WiiWare was going to require a dev kit purchase and license granted, so it doesn't seem all that Indie to me. Let's just say, not as open as XNA

Well... XNA right now doesn't lead to a commercializable XBLA title. It's more of a hobbyist platform right now.

If a dev kit was under $5K and I didn't have to jump through hoops to get one - sign me up!

[sillytuna]

Sony are also quite open at the moment, but you need to step through a lot more hoops and - if Sony themselves don't part fund you - you'll need some $$$ for kit/dev, more than for Wii.

[mash]

Wii devkits are US$2000.

[cyrus_zuo]

Wii devkits are US$2000.
...and getting through the approval process for being on Wii appears to be nothing more than a formality that anyone can accomplish...whereas XBLA and PSN both have many gatekeepers.

WiiWare will very interesting to watch as the games start launching. I wouldn't be surprised to see over a 1000 titles there by the end of next year...and no I didn't accidentally put an extra '0' on that number.

[Pyabo]

...and getting through the approval process for being on Wii appears to be nothing more than a formality that anyone can accomplish...

Whahuh?!? By "anyone," you mean existing Nintendo partners and established publishers, right?

If not... got a source for details on this approval process? Last I read (on this board), Nintendo was treating WiiWare just like their regular channel.

[cyrus_zuo]

Whahuh?!? By "anyone," you mean existing Nintendo partners and established publishers, right?

If not... got a source for details on this approval process? Last I read (on this board), Nintendo was treating WiiWare just like their regular channel.

http://www.warioworld.com/apply/
Get to it lad.
"Anyone" might have been a bit too broad, but perhaps not too broad ;).

[Jesse Hopkins]

Wii devkits are US$2000.

It could be a great idea. I have a Wii, and my memory card isn't full yet. But all the stuff on there is small - like virtual console games under 4 MB. With these Wii indie games, it seems like they will fill up a memory card pretty fast, and people won't be downloading hoards of them and keeping them. You think that would be a concern? A friend of mine and I have a game idea for Wii and would like to do this if we could. I just would like to know, if we made game heavy on audio and 2D graphics files, would it be problematic...

[voxel]

Whahuh?!? By "anyone," you mean existing Nintendo partners and established publishers, right?

If not... got a source for details on this approval process? Last I read (on this board), Nintendo was treating WiiWare just like their regular channel.

It looks like it - secure location, credentials, etc..

I'm not treating WiiWare any differently than PSN or XBLA... but am wondering how open Nintendo and Sony are to new indie projects. I know you just can't shove anything you want onto XBLA even if you completely self-funded the project yourself.

[Applewood]

...not as open as XNA...Which is like saying it's as orange as wednesday! Uou won't be releasing any titles on 360 written with the XNA kit - you still need to buy all the trimmings for proper 360 dev as you would from Sony and Nintendo.

I know the 360 will make you a profit if you get a game accepted, and I'm sure the same will be true on PS3 soon if not already. I doubt Wiiware will ever make anyone anything tbh.

but am wondering how open Nintendo and Sony are to new indie projectsRight now MS have more than they need so it'll be a hard sell especially from someone they've never heard of, but Sony are still pretty open to ideas. Probably won't last much longer as they get more people interested, so now's the time...

[luggage]

Well... XNA right now doesn't lead to a commercializable XBLA title. It's more of a hobbyist platform right now.I don't think using XNA prevents a commerical route to XBLA, certainly no more than using any other language\library would.

From what I gather there were 4 winners of the Dream, Build, Play competition and they were all offered the chance of publishing on XBLA (under what terms I have no idea). And I think there's another game (Schizoid?) due out on the arcade this year that is written in XNA. How many others that are in development I don't know.

[voxel]

I doubt Wiiware will ever make anyone anything tbh.

Given the sheer install base and the lack of titles for it - I could it see it spawning a few odd hits (ala a mass market fLOw / Cooking Mama / Club Penguin / Viva Pinata kinda of way).

Unfortunately, you are also competing with all the VC titles too and from looking at the XBLA charts (many emu-ports) that not insignificant.

[Applewood]

From what I gather there were 4 winners of the Dream, Build, Play competition and they were all offered the chance of publishing on XBLA (under what terms I have no idea). And I think there's another game (Schizoid?) due out on the arcade this year that is written in XNA. How many others that are in development I don't know.But it's irrelevant. This is the result of a specific PR competition or something. To anyone else bar those people, there's as much chance of getting a game accepted on 360 if done in XNA as there is if you did it on a pc in blitzmax. And there'll be a similar amount of work required to get the thing running on a 360.

[luggage]

So like Schizoid then which isn't a competition winner and is written exclusively in XNA (so we're led to believe) and is coming out on the XBLA later this year?

Not sure what you mean about similar amount of work as having a game in Blitz to get it running on the 360. You realise XNA games do work on the 360? And those competition winners all had versions that ran on the 360 (I think).

I'm not saying you're more likely to get your game on XBLA but I disagree with the poster saying that there's no route to commericalisation on XBLA by using XNA.

[jessechounard]

And there'll be a similar amount of work required to get the thing running on a 360.

I disagree. XNA Game Studio Express games already run on the 360. From the current version of GSE, you'd need to add achievements and networking (if your game is multiplayer) and you'd be set. I'll be very surprised if a few of the other Dream Build Play finalists don't get picked up for Live Arcade.

Of course, a game written using Blitzmax has a fall back plan if it isn't picked up for Live Arcade. It's gonna be difficult to sell GSE games on the pc as things stand. (And there's no realistic Mac option at all, obviously.)

[Applewood]

I'm not saying you're more likely to get your game on XBLA but I disagree with the poster saying that there's no route to commericalisation on XBLA by using XNA.I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just not much of an advantage from what I've seen of it.

[voxel]

I'm not saying you're more likely to get your game on XBLA but I disagree with the poster saying that there's no route to commericalisation on XBLA by using XNA.

I didn't use such strong qualifications... but my original assertion still stands.

"XNA right now doesn't lead to a commercializable XBLA title"

How does a studio sell his/her XNA game right now if they are forced to provide source and art? Just because you wrote your game in XNA doesn't mean MS will let you on XBLA. BTW You know there is a distinction between the hobyyist XNA and professional XNA, right?

I could write a PS3 game using PS3 Linux and Pygame/SDL/Mesa(software renderer), but that doesn't make it easier to have my game commercialized on the PS3? No.

[jessechounard]

How does a studio sell his/her XNA game right now if they are forced to provide source and art?

Actually, you no longer need to release source/assets to share your games. You build ccgame packages in GSE. (I'm not saying that I'd be happy for paying for a ccgame packaged game at this point, but things are improving.)

[luggage]

I didn't use such strong qualifications... but my original assertion still stands.

"XNA right now doesn't lead to a commercializable XBLA title"

How does a studio sell his/her XNA game right now if they are forced to provide source and art? Just because you wrote your game in XNA doesn't mean MS will let you on XBLA. BTW You know there is a distinction between the hobyyist XNA and professional XNA, right?

I could write a PS3 game using PS3 Linux and Pygame/SDL/Mesa(software renderer), but that doesn't make it easier to have my game commercialized on the PS3? No.Nowhere have I said that writing your game in XNA means you'll get it distributed on XBLA. What I am saying is that writing your game in XNA you're just as likely to get your game distributed on XBLA as if you wrote your game in C\C++\Java or whatever you like. If you are targetting XBLA as your market using XNA is certainly no hinderence. Project approval is the biggest hurdle you're likely to face and that's not going to change any time soon.

Your comment is phrased as to sound like there is no way to get a current XNA game on XBLA. That's clearly not true, you just have to jump through the same hoops as every other developer using other languages. If this isn't what you meant then fair enough. You might want to check out the game I mentioned earlier - that's clear evidence that right now XNA can lead to a commercialised XBLA product. It's not easy, and it's not guaranteed but it can be done.

As of XNA 2.0 they're doing away with the original idea of seperate hobbyist and professional versions - it's being merged into one package with licensed developers having extra "plugins" (presumably leaderboards and achievements, etc) available to them.

[voxel]

Nowhere have I said that writing your game in XNA means you'll get it distributed on XBLA.

You might want to check out the game I mentioned earlier - that's clear evidence that right now XNA can lead to a commercialised XBLA product.

I'm getting mixed messages. I agree with the statements, but the subtext is that you believe using XNA is an advantage that leads to XBLA publishing and to me that's bunk.

Frankly, whether you use XNA or not has no bearing on whether it ends up on XBLA (as you mentioned before). I've seen too many threads by people who assume if they write a game using XNA their chances of getting onto XBLA are better (only true in the Dream-Build-Play contest).

We're way too focused on technology here. XBLA is a console portal - it is controlled by MS. It doesn't need more shooters or racing games. I'm sure if somebody proposed a Parappa The Rapper (only Boom Boom Rocket is close to that), MS would approve it.

[voxel]

Actually, you no longer need to release source/assets to share your games. You build ccgame packages in GSE. (I'm not saying that I'd be happy for paying for a ccgame packaged game at this point, but things are improving.)

Might give the Creator's Club it a try then - just got my X360 back from a friend. Catan is addictive...

[luggage]

I'll point you to a line in my very first post in this thread...I don't think using XNA prevents a commerical route to XBLA, certainly no more than using any other language\library would.I think there's two different things going on here. Is XNA an advantage? And is XNA a disadvantage? Your comment made it sound like it was a disadvantage ("XNA right now doesn't lead to a commercializable XBLA title"). I wanted other people in the thread to know that is incorrect.

That's not to say I think it's an advantage by the way, just that you're in the same boat as all the C/C++ developers when it comes to getting your game on XBLA.