UK: Proper Vacancies Need Filling

[Applewood]

Rubicon Development are now hiring staff to fulfill a number of commercial and independent projects.

We are on the Isle of Wight in the UK. If you can't or won't consider moving there, I guess that's all she wrote. I can feel 99% of people leaving right now. :(

We need about 5-6 programmers, about three of which need to be seasoned industry vets, whilst the others can be keen amateurs (hate that word) who want to take their skills/ambitions to the next level. We're thinking of around 20-30 grand plus bonuses that actually appear, but can negotiate for the right people.

We also want a couple of artists skilled in all areas, ideally with commercial reality experience.

We're a tiny firm looking to expand to be very small. Currently there are four of us and we won't ever go above 12. Ever! Cosiness and team atmosphere is one of the things we're striving for.

No corporate crap, no lies, no 25 hours a day working policy, etc. We run our firm like we wanted others to work when we were employees at them, and I think this makes us unique! We do expect you to work hard and play hard, just not around the clock every day.

We have the following work lined up:

1x collaborative effort with another small dev for a "AAA" RPG on 360 and PC with possibly a PS3 extension later. This is to be a sequel (though starting from scratch - not a port) of a game with a *massive* following. You will be working alongside at least one industry God.

1x collaborative effort with a different developer for a "A" bikes game on 360, PC, PS3 and Wii

2x indie efforts in progress with a couple more planned. These will be 360 and PC download, with possibly PS3 as well/instead

4x PC->XBLA conversion jobs with generous timelines

We need gameplay programmers, porting engineers and help with our already pretty good games engine.

We do commercial work to pay the bills, but our heart is in "commercial indie" land. Our long-term goal is to become a recognised name in the console downloadable space developing our own original IP and content.

Please note we absolutely don't do freelancers. These are full-time, in-house, no other conflicting interests, positions.

If any of this is making you feel pumped, mail me at the addy in my sig and let's talk. If not interested but you know of someone who might be, please pass this on and a finders fee will be involved.

Thanks...

[Backov]

Good luck to you, I know it's an utter pain to fill positions here (from experience now), and we're in one of the bigger cities around.

[Applewood]

Thanks!

We'll be putting an ad in Develop magazine soon, but the lead time on that is horrendous.

I got in touch with Datascope, a popular games recruitment service here, but the total bill if they filled all of these positions is on a par with the GDP of a banana republic. Not a bad earner for posting an ad once a month and mailing some CV's. (They're all as ludicrous in case you're wondering)

[papillon]

Guhh, datascope. Such a simple task and they screw it up so much. ISTR their site not being searchable, which is a duh-obvious thing to put in...

[voxel]

I got in touch with Datascope, a popular games recruitment service here, but the total bill if they filled all of these positions is on a par with the GDP of a banana republic. Not a bad earner for posting an ad once a month and mailing some CV's. (They're all as ludicrous in case you're wondering)

Datascope was my recruiter in the past (when I looked for work). I highly recommend them and yes, I've seen what they've charged. I think they attract solid talent, but right now there is a global shortage of programmers so it's not that easy.

I'd doubt posting ads is their primary way of finding talent - it's through past contacts and word of mouth.

I heard magazine ads and Gamasutra postings were not that effective at all. Maybe you should fly to a nearby IGDA meeting and recruit directly?

[Backov]

I would say that there isn't a global shortage of programmers. There's a global shortage of programmers with the proper experience.

And of course, sometimes the HR companies are stupid, wanting someone with multiple shipped AAA titles etc - those guys are hard to find.

[Applewood]

I heard magazine ads and Gamasutra postings were not that effective at all. Maybe you should fly to a nearby IGDA meeting and recruit directly?Especially for UK firms as you get charged as if American eyes are relevant. I never spend money on web advertising for this reason.

Regarding IGDA or other things like that, I'm not sure it would be worth the effort tbh. Most of the employment-worthy people here and at other indie sites are either already successful as Indies and/or are industry vets that got burned so bad they tar us all with the same brush and wouldn't come back. But for the cost of the ad, I thought it worth a punt :)

Develop mag is definitely worth it though. It costs about the same as a single placement from an agency, yet you get a trillion CV's and can hopefully staff up in one hit. I know of one company that filled 20 vacancies via this route recently.

I'd doubt posting ads is their primary way of finding talent - it's through past contacts and word of mouth.But that costs nothing at all! Sure, their service is valuable, just not as valuable as they think it is. I'm sure if they took a zero off their prices all the bigger firms would take the "no agencies" banner of their jobs pages. I'm not paying six grand to get one guy and I'm certainly not paying 30 grand to get five. If I had that kinda money spare and up front just to spend on this, we'd be big enough to have people enquiring about us for free!

[voxel]

I would say that there isn't a global shortage of programmers. There's a global shortage of programmers with the proper experience.

And of course, sometimes the HR companies are stupid, wanting someone with multiple shipped AAA titles etc - those guys are hard to find.

HR companies aren't stupid. It's the clients (game studios) who WANT experienced programmers with AAA experience - otherwise why are they paying $5-$10k in recruitment fees?

To be honest, I'd much prefer a programmer with professional game development experience over 99.9% others. This person has gone through the puppy mill and probably understands what needs to be done in order to complete a polished game...

[voxel]

But that costs nothing at all! Sure, their service is valuable, just not as valuable as they think it is. I'm sure if they took a zero off their prices all the bigger firms would take the "no agencies" banner of their jobs pages. I'm not paying six grand to get one guy and I'm certainly not paying 30 grand to get five. If I had that kinda money spare and up front just to spend on this, we'd be big enough to have people enquiring about us for free!

I'd love for them to drop their fees - programmers + artists would get higher salaries too!

But right now, it's supply and demand issues. With supply being fairly small....
And if you are small studio with no name recognition it's hard to get talent since nobody has heard of you - a name brand recruiter also lends you credibility. We all know how dodgy the industry is to begin with ;-)

[Backov]

HR companies aren't stupid. It's the clients (game studios) who WANT experienced programmers with AAA experience - otherwise why are they paying $5-$10k in recruitment fees?

To be honest, I'd much prefer a programmer with professional game development experience over 99.9% others. This person has gone through the puppy mill and probably understands what needs to be done in order to complete a polished game...

Really? So you'd rather not have anyone for a year or more than have someone who doesn't have multiple shipped titles? Because it may not be the case where you are, but it certainly is elsewhere. The company where I am now working was looking for 6 months before they found me, and I'm hardly an uber games guy.

[Applewood]

a name brand recruiter also lends you credibility.Hardly! When I was the recruiter at my last firm we used agencies a lot because money was no object. We were getting "I worked at McDonalds" CV's for rendering engine writers etc. They don't seem to vet people properly/at all, they don't seem to know what the job descriptions we give them actually mean, and they seem to save their best candidates for the bigger firms, possibly at odds with what the candidate's interest.

Multiply all that with the ludicrous fees, and those that know afford zero credibility to agencies and therefore no credibility to candidates because they came through one.

Agencies take anybody and they benefit nobody. They certainly don't benefit candidates as the candidates rightly assume they need do nothing more to get a good job, whilst the reality is that most firms don't use the agencies so they could be missing out, and of those that do, their CV isn't going to many of them unless they're a power earner as the agency wants max commission.

[Applewood]

It occurred to me that rather than venting to my peers about how expensive recruitment agencies are and how small studios can't afford them, I really ought to vent at a recruitment agency.

I was actually polite but still fairly blunt and it kinda worked. Can't give details, but you can work em out for yourself. :)

[TimS]

I was actually polite but still fairly blunt and it kinda worked. Can't give details, but you can work em out for yourself.

Everything is negotiable.

Just to clarify from the original post -- when you say various numbers you are talking british pounds, right?

[Applewood]

Yes, UKP.

Standard rates over here are about 15-18 for newbs, 25-35 for experienced guys and 40-60 for gurus. Ish. Depends on a lot more factors like location and company size, but that's a decent rough guide I think.

Small studios tend to pay less in salary but make it up in bonuses, fun working environment and the promise of bigger rewards when the studio starts expanding

[Backov]

Is 40k pounds a lot? With the US dollar where it is now, that doesn't seem like a lot. Only 80k US, which is around the starting salary at microsoft, and only a bit above the average game developers salary.. And that's WITH the US dollar in the toilet.

I might be making an unforgivable assumption, but I assume that the Isle of Wight is fairly cheap to live on?

[Applewood]

I wouldn't bother doing that conversion - not only do Americans tend to get paid more than us lot generally, the cost of living here (or most other decent countries in Europe) is also way higher than in the US. The net effect being that you don't see many Americans working in Brit studios!

However, you can only compare apples with apples. 40K is a pretty stellar starting wage to most people and you'll have a nice life relative to the unwashed masses. Only the gifted Carmack types and long-time-employed can look forward to earning significantly more in this trade, unless it's in central London.

I'd love this to not be the case and we try to pay our people as much as we can sensibly afford, but we won't ever be competing with Microsoft over anyone!

The Isle of Wight is cheap for the South, the South being fairly expensive generally. Neither are close to central london with is getting more and more like NY every minute. Please also remember that it's US currency that's crashing, not ours that is rising, this disparity will seem even worse when a pound == 3 dollars ;)

[andrew]

Recruiting is becoming a big issue no matter where you are. Microsoft would pour tons of money into recruiting game programmers with very little to show for it. (And this was in Austin, which is a hotbed of game companies). Good people get snapped up very very quickly. The only reason they found people at all was because they had a crazy relocation plan where they would pay for your cross-country move, signing bonuses, etc.

Artists and audio people are generally easier to find, designers are a dime a dozen (although top-notch ones are rare). I think any startup has to scope out recruiting realities very early on -- you don't want to get put into a situation where you *must* hire 5-10 quality people ASAP, and be forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel just to get bodies in the seats.

- andrew

[Applewood]

Just to put my salary quotes in context:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

Someone starting with us on 25K + Bonuses is above the average salary for the South of England, and way above everyone else ('cept London where a 1 bedroom flat will cost you a mil).

If the you and the company do well and you end up on 40K, you'll be coining it in.

These are pretty good numbers for smaller studio wages who offer lots of other benefits. Looking forward to going to work the next day being one them that the grind-houses can't offer even if you get 5K more money there.

[electronicStar]

25k GBP is 36,951 euros if I believe the exchange rate. divided by twelve is about 3k euros per month which is pretty nice for a starting salary. That said I don't know the living costs in England (and they're said to be rather high) but in continental europe 3k euros is very good (although I concede you can make much more in some businesses).
That's about $4200 a month (although this number is pointless because the cost of living is very different in USA)

[Applewood]

They are highish, but by no means the worst. Drive around Vienna a while and guess how much that'd hurt! :)

Most of our tax money goes on free healthcare so at least you get something back for it. I quite like it here, but I'd glady swap for a bit of bloody sunshine this year! :(

[voxel]

Yes, UKP.

Standard rates over here are about 15-18 for newbs, 25-35 for experienced guys and 40-60 for gurus. Ish.

That's about right. I worked just outside of London for that middle range ages ago. It was fun (I'd recommend it to any North American for a year or two - sign up with Applewood!) then I came to my financial senses and came back to Canada for nearly double the salary and half the cost of living.

To others - don't bother comparing UK salaries to west cost US salaries. Most game companies outside California (and maybe Seattle) pay fairly "normal game industry" wages. The Bay Area + Santa Monica are also crazy expensive (with high taxes) compared to say Austin

[Applewood]

came back to Canada for nearly double the salary and half the cost of living.lol, don't rub it in :(

[Mephs]

Hey AppleWood,

Just to update you on my situation, still no joy here I'm afraid. We've kept a lookout for headteacher jobs for the girlfriend just on the offchance that we would be crazy enough to make the big leap to IoW, but nothing has come up when we've checked... just in case you thought I'd forgotten about it.

Are you sure that some kind of distance working isn't an option... I know it's not ideal, but I guess if you're entirely without candidates alternative options might be necessary?

Cheers,

Steve

[Applewood]

Thanks for the heads-up, Steve. :(

Remote working isn't feasible. Apart from the fact that we like to have our team all together, there are practical problems like us not being able to send X360 devkits off-site etc.

[zoombapup]

Out of interest, hows the housing situation on IOW? I mean, whats a typical rent for a 2bed place for instance?

I'm curious as to wether youre in a better position that all of the london and brighton places.

BTW: Going to develop? might be able to recruit there. Although, I'm guessing the expo will be a recruit fair too.

[Applewood]

Housing is fine. Well relatively - as you know housing costs too much everywhere right now.

http://www.findaproperty.com/searchresults.aspx?edid=00&salerent=1&regionid=535
This isn't a great selection, but I'm not an estate agent.

The Island is a very high quality place to live with the best climate in the UK, so a fair comparison would be with somewhere like the New Forest where the rents will make your eyes water. Yet, you can still exist on a junior/grad salary without living in a shithole. This is basically due to the fact that there *are* no shitholes here.

We were going to Develop, but we've had to poke it due to bad timing. We wouldn't have envisaged needing a booth or anything in advance anyways, and I can't see me tapping people on the shoulder to offer them jobs. (But ask me again about this next year! :eek: )