The Nordstrom Way by Robert Spector

[GBGames]

I just came from a talk given by Robert Spector (like literally 10 minutes ago) about customer service. Anyone here read his book The Nordstrom Way (http://www.robertspector.com/NordWar.html) ? I am thinking about getting it.

Another book that sounds interesting is Anytime, Anywhere (http://www.robertspector.com/anytime.html) which discusses ways to setup your business to encourage customers to shop and come back for more.

They seem to have good reviews at Amazon.com, but I was wondering if anyone here had anything to say about them.

[KNau]

The more you kiss a customer's ass - the more they regard you with suspicion.
The more you listen to your customer - the more they will complain.
The more you try to please the customer - the more they will demand.

What real evidence is there that creating "raving fans" is even a viable business tactic, especially for those of us in the entertainment industry? I think most marketing books, shareware guides and even our old friend Steve P. have a problem of seeing the forest for the trees.

Save your money. There is no such thing as "sneezers", "raving fans" or "purple cows". They are made-up names applied to the same old marketing philosophies for the sole purpose of selling books. If anything, ignorance of traditional marketing philosophies will serve you better than devotion to them.

Always remember, a $40 dollar ad (no matter how incompetently produced) brings in more business than a $40 book sitting on your shelf. There is no "secret knowledge" on marketing to be had, so spend wisely.

[Hamumu]

In my experience, what you said is completely wrong. I have found that without regard to the behavior of the customer (whether they're incredibly nasty or perfectly pleasant), I have ALWAYS gotten very positive responses when I swallowed my pride and kissed ass like a lamprey. Even customers who were pissed and said they'd never do business with me again turned around at least partway when they got the obsequious treatment. I've never had it go wrong once (though certainly, I've falied to save a situation with it, but nothing has ever gotten worse). And on the flipside, those who are my "raving fans" have brought in friends to buy my products, and they've continued to buy everything I release as it comes out, most of the time without even trying a demo.

I don't know nothing about no purple cows, never read a marketing book that made any sense to me, and don't do any good at my marketing efforts, but I DO know that treating customers well is invariably a good idea, and that cultivating rabid fandom leads to sales with no effort. I don't know about the listening thing, you may well be right about that one - I try not to listen too hard. But they definitely don't demand more when I am very accomodating to them. They love it, they thank me profusely, and oftentimes they come back later with a story to tell (and no demands, just something they wanted to share with me).

That's my experience anyway, I'm sure it differs across the board.

[SyneRyder]

My experience is completely different from KNau's as well. There absolutely are "sneezers" and "raving fans". I've experienced the effects they have and it's dramatic and mostly positive. Find the right customer who spreads the word to other likely potential customers, and it can have a measurable effect on your business. We're talking doubling or tripling your revenue stream, consistently over the long-term, overnight.

Yep, it is the same old marketing ideas rehashed and repackaged. But if explaining it in a different way helps you to understand it better, that's a good thing. The concept of "sneezers" and "hives" was more helpful to me than just calling it "word of mouth".

I've absolutely made more revenue from ideas I read in books than from advertising. An incompetent advertisement will get not get you any business. But you can also take it too far. If you just buy and read books and never implement any of the ideas from them, or just keep reading books with the same ideas, of course you won't get any income from it. Perhaps that's what KNau was getting at.

[Sillysoft]

The more you kiss a customer's ass - the more they regard you with suspicion.
The more you listen to your customer - the more they will complain.
The more you try to please the customer - the more they will demand.
In my experience this is 100% wrong. Customers like it when you are nice to them. Customers love it when you listen to them. If you please a customer then it turns out well for your company in the future.

Word of mouth can be hard to judge, but that doesn't lessen its power. I have had a few customers send out mass emails to their friends or to a mailing list talking about my game, with me as a CC. I have had some customers mention my game on their blogs. These are the visible ones, but I am sure that many of my customers were introduced to my game by their friends.

This happens because I treat my customers with respect (both via email and in a public forum where all can see). I listen to their feedback and follow up on it when it makes sense to. My "raving fans" are one of the most prized aspect of my business.

[Karukef]

Working in sales and occatioanlly customer service, talking directly customers daily for a long time I can say the following:

The more you kiss a customer's ass, the more pleased the customer gets. It goes without saying that you have to kiss the customer's ass properly, and not overdo it, look fake or any such thing. But it works wonders.

The more you listen to a customer (preferrably nodding your head and agreeing) the more likely he is to respond positively when you decide it's your turn to talk and tell the customer what will happen.

The more you try to please the customer, the more confused and tired he will be. Give him just a tiny bit more than he expects, and leave it at that.

[svero]

The other day I was discussing some of my marketing ideas with Mikeb (specifically about how google adwords is a great way to test ad copy for all kinds of things in a quick efficient manner) and we both agreed that the single best piece of marketing know how you can have is simply knowing to test.

Anyone who uses the results from a book without testing them is bound to fail. I've read plenty of things in various marketing books. When I actually try them, some of them work well, some have no effect, and some actually make things worse.

I think it's also important to understand that we're in a particular kind of business and furthermore each of our own businesses is different. What works for me may not work for you. What works to sell toilet paper on supermarket shelves may not work to sell games. Would the advice of a successful marketing guru who worked with commodity items all his life be of much use to us? Maybe maybe not. Test it and you know for sure.

[KNau]

I'm back :) This is what happens when you write a post after having no sleep for 48 hours. In editing my original post I forgot to mention that the anti-customer sentiments were actually paraphrased from a marketing book I had just finished reading called Free Gift Inside by Stephen Brown:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1841125466/qid=1100519456/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/103-1653740-1849402

In editing I completely deleted 2 paragraphs, lol!

The point I was getting at is that there is so much conflicting advice and that this was the most recent info I had read. The book was an amusing read but I shudder to think of those who may follow it's advice.

You guys pretty much saw the point anyways.

If you just buy and read books and never implement any of the ideas from them, or just keep reading books with the same ideas, of course you won't get any income from it. Perhaps that's what KNau was getting at.

I don't know nothing about no purple cows, never read a marketing book that made any sense to me

I think there is a point where the purchasing of new business and self-help books becomes more destructive than beneficial, especially when there are so many conflicting terms and conclusions. After all, a purple cow is just a "unique selling point" and sneezing is just "word of mouth". As far as I'm concerned, Seth Godin owes me $40 bucks!

The magic number of books you need is probably 2. Go to your local library (for God's sake don't buy books that you can access for free) and take out 2 marketing books, the more traditional the better. If after reading those two books you're still not clear then hire a consultant for 1 day or 1 hour, depending on what you can afford.

I only mention it because I have had a horrible time in the past where that line has been crossed and I let myself descend into analysis paralysis, just hopping from one "hot new concept" to another.

In conclusion, if both the books you mentioned look interesting to you then read them both, but make that the cap for marketing books. If you need more information after that, go talk to an advisor - they're a lot more accessible than you probably think (that's the stage I'm at now).

Another possiblity, instead of reading a book written by someone who's never even heard of the shareware industry, is to simply ask on these boards. It seems there is a lot of successful experience spread around here.

[GBGames]

Thanks for that info. I really should take advantage of a library more. The closest one to me sucks, but there is one that isn't too far away that is much better, and I tend to be near the downtown area of Chicago, which is where my university's computer science and business books are housed, as well as Chicago's own public library.

I've noticed that there tends to be a lot of overlap when it comes to personal productivity too. I've looked up terms only to find that everyone and their mother has written a book about the same thing with hardly any difference.

So thanks for that advice about reading about two books at most. When I was reading about bootstrapping and starting up your own business, I found about three or four books on the subject. Once I realized that I was reading the same thing, I figured I learned what I needed and didn't bother looking for more books. This obviously can't be applied everywhere, but it is good to know that this is probably one of those cases.