Game with sense of touch

[mmakrzem]

I work at a company that develops haptic application. We are now looking at making a computer game that would allow players to experience "touch" in the game by using a special kind of joystick. This is 100% better than force feedback joysticks. Check out http://www.novint.com/falcon.htm if you are not sure what I mean.

Anyway, I have a question. If you could play a game that has the sense of touch incorporated into it, what kind of game would you like to play. I need ideas of what kinds of games I should be making.

[soniCron]

Boobies.

Seriously, though, I've always envisioned some sort of handball game with these types of devices. Could be neat! :)

[TimS]

Hello!

I played with the Falcon at the last two GDC's, and was impressed, if somewhat confused (by who the target audience was).

You should talk to NanoRex (http://www.nanoengineer-1.com/content/). Hook up with the Nanoengineering crowd and you'll have yourselves an audience for a while.

As far as games go, I personally would be interested in seeing the Half-Life 2 thing in a more complete state. That said, I think Novint has a hard-sell ahead of them if they're planning on puncturing the home PC gaming market. It's a cool device, but you can only really tell how cool it is by playing with one (website marketing copy won't do the trick in this case).

Just my two bits.

-Tim

[ChrisP]

Maybe putting it on display (for people to try out) in computer game stores would help sell it to people. Approach mainstream developers and try and swing some kind of bundle deal whereby people can buy a "deluxe edition" of the game which includes your controller at a discount rate... if you could just get people familiar with the idea, it sounds like it could sell itself.

It looks interesting - I saw something similar in a CSIRO (http://csiro.au/) display once, some years ago, though theirs seemed fairly primitive; all the surfaces felt quite rough, like I was dragging a scalpel over an unshaped mound of concrete. I don't know how it compares to your product.

As for games, I think something that uses physics quite heavily would show it off best; perhaps a sport, as in Wii Sports. I'm not sure exactly what that would be though; I haven't yet been able to think of any game in which it would be more than just an added gimmick. If you can integrate it into the core gameplay such that the game would really suffer without the controller, and make the game good enough that people are willing to pay the extra premium for the controller, then you could be onto a winner.

I'll let you know if I think of anything...

[Bmc]

might not be an answer you like, but it seems like the type of device suitable for "adults only" games ... if you get my drift ;)

[Andy]

Pirates of Caribbean with amount of fencing.

[mmakrzem]

The haptic device gives you more than just a force feedback experience (you can get that with a joystick), it allows you to feel objects in 3D as if you are really inside your computer. It is really hard to explain the feeling.

I think that a haptic game should be heavy on the physics simulation so that it feels very real. In the past my company put together a small simulation of a space shuttle flying over all the different planets in the solar system. As you approach Jupiter where the gravity is HUGE compared to earth, the shuttle all of a sudden began to feel much heavier in your hand (The haptic device controlled the shuttles motion). As you moved further from the planet the gravity effect was less.

Maybe a game that does something like that would be fun?!

[TimS]

it allows you to feel objects in 3D as if you are really inside your computer.
That might be stretching it a bit... :)
Maybe a game that does something like that would be fun?!
See thread:
http://forums.indiegamer.com/showthread.php?t=7788&highlight=orbit+master

Orbit Master! Your ship on a grapple beam -- add in some gravity to each planet / object and you'd have multiple forces at once...

Now that it's mentioned, I'm remembering that among the little demos for the device, by far the coolest feeling of them was the one in which you had one and then two weights on rubber bands attached to your "hand" and you could whip 'em around. THAT demo very well demonstrated the idea of simulated force... I think there'll be more luck with this direction than down the path of feeling "surfaces".

-Tim

[FlySim]

Our fly fishing game might work well with this thing - but I can't see many customers paying $200 for it....

[Cartman]

If this device gives you the sensation of texture, I think it would be cool if you could do the match 3 type game, with fuzzy little characters(like chuzzle). Then as you click each one you feel a different texture and feel them squirm as you move them. :)

[DoctorJ]

You would not want to make a complicated game - just something that demonstrates how this device can be utilized in a game. One possibility is to use the device for "balancing". Perhaps a waiter/waitress game where the player needs to balance dishes, glasses etc on a tray and navigate through a crowd. The more items and faster they move through the crowd, the higher the tips they earn. No need for fancy graphics or high-poly characters. No intellectual challenges or intricate story lines. Just an eye-hand coordination game that makes use of the device's features.
(but don't forget the sound effect of things breaking when the player drops the tray!)

[electronicStar]

It's difficult to find a use for that because generally game interfaces using devices (joypad, mouse,etc...) are not mapped closely to the player organism, I mean there is a degree of abstraction that is used when you push left to walk left (you don't actually have to simulate the turning of the torso and the double movement of the legs, you just push a direction). In your case it involves a rather close degree of feedback simulation so less abstraction is possible.

The good uses I can imagine for this device is to simulate controls on a vehicle (commands of an airplane or gearstick on a car which would also transmit engine vibration etc... )

[PoV]

Wow, I don't envy you or the Novint guys, having to create a market for that device. I know Wacom made a similar plea some time back, trying to expand their market by pushing pen based gaming. But at least they have the professional graphics and related markets to back them up. Killer apps or not, the market for that device is incredibly niche.

[soniCron]

While they do seem to be working top-down, there is a professional graphics market for this kind of thing. (3D modeling and animation.)

[PoV]

Perhaps, but it's not like they're the first 3D controller ever conceived. And none of those ever became anything worth talking about. And while it's true there is *some* potential in the animation market, most 3D animation companies do the mouse+keyboard thang. That's also how modelers and modeling is taught, since it's both cheap and usable. Some break out the tablets for ZBrush, other 3D paint apps, and heck, Photoshop. 3D control for modeling might have been meaningful if it wasn't for multiple views, big monitors, and the rotate camera feature when sculpting.

Not to sound like an ass, but it's just another gimmick device. It's cool mind you, but just a gimmick like 3D shutter or steroscopic glasses, chairs with built in rumble, the eyetoy (though still around), and gyroscopic mice. Like Immersion and the other tactile companies before them, they've built a cool device that probably wont get much market. Eventually they'll evolve in to a patent house for the day when somebody can make something marketable out of it, or until they're bought out for their "brilliant" idea to use 3 motors for moving a tethered ball in 3-dimensions.

*cough* ... though I'd probably buy one if I tried it, liked it, had the disposable income, and they shipped to Canada. Just 'cause I'm pessimistic about it doesn't mean I don't want one. :)

[Mikademus]

Actually, I don't really see it as just a gimmick device, if it supports twisting the knob then it has most of the degrees of freedom I require/wish for space flight simulators: x/y/z/twist == yaw/pitch/thrust/roll. I still lack the DoF for planar translation, but that'd be doable through WASD, or perhaps the knob allows for tilting too? then it'd be the end-all free flight control stick.

[jefferytitan]

To be honest I can't really envision exactly how you interact with it and what you can do with it. At the very least I'd need a video to get it better. Getting it out there in as many games shops as possible is a must.

What could you do with it... hmm. Maybe a jigsaw for the blind (or people looking for a challenge) with prominent ridges, textures etc so you can feel how it fits together. Then you get to see it when you're finished. A maze game with a force-feedback component. Boxing. Whack-a-mole with your hand? Maybe an Indiana Jones style adventure where your main weapon is a whip? That'd be cool. A toy car race where you have to push it over the terrain and you can feel bad terrain (and the car has momentum).

If you had full haptic for your hand it would be cool to experience the world as Thing from the Addams Family, but I gather you couldn't actually move by "walking" on your fingers. A 3d version of tetris where you actually have to grab the pieces and try to fit them together as fast as possible? A novelty could be one of those Halloween things where you stick your hand in something and try to figure out what it is. Maybe trying to catch something with your hand, feel it try to get away.

[Jesse Hopkins]

I suppose subtle vibrations on a remote could tell the player when they are closer or farther to something. I don't think there will be many "video" games for the blind - kind of an oxymoron. But I do think that there will be further advancement in the directiion that the Wii and the DS have forged. I just want to play a really good sword fighting sim that has real resistance to each clash. Now that would be something! You'd need alien technology like the antigravity and equilibrium technology from "Cannon God Exxaxion" or something. MAYBE Miyamoto is an alien... nah.

-Jesse

[jefferytitan]

I don't think there will be many "video" games for the blind - kind of an oxymoron.

It's only an oxymoron because it hasn't been done yet, same as the early days of EyeToy, the Wii or 3D goggles. The lesson from them is that there's a lot of targeting and marketing needed to make them take off, because we all remember the stunning success of 3D goggles. ;)

I imagine that no big budget games will be targeted at the blind ever because of the size of the market and the different paradigm needed. However, if sound and touch is a solid enough extra feature of a major game it may be possible to play it without sight. It's like the keyboard vs mouse thing. If the interface is good you can do just about anything with a kb that you can do with a mouse. It's just harder sometimes. ;)

[Jesse Hopkins]

My only problem with the Virtual Boy was that everything you saw was red. I think that also may have had a lot to do with its early demise. I remember hoping it would not catch on. I also hoped play station and 3d graphics would place second in favor of 2d development, but you can see I did not get my wish there.