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View Full Version : Moving on from match-3 mechanics


Mephs
03-12-2007, 12:09 PM
Hey all,

After my last thread about strategic player positioning, I'd had a bit of a spin-off idea. The idea was simply to try combining a match-3 style gameplay with RPG gameplay. So I came up with some ideas and did a bit of research and found out that I've been beaten to it by a game called Puzzle Quest. It looks like a very, very nice game and it is exactly the kind of thing I was envisaging. For more info on the game, check out their webpage
here (http://www.infinite-interactive.com/puzzlequest/).

Now, I'm loathe to make a clone, I'd like to hope I'm a bit more original than that, and I was never too happy about considering the idea of a match-3 mechanic as it is so hugely overdone. Hence the need for this post. I think it would be interesting to perhaps try to pre-empt a design that could succeed the match 3 mechanic. What other mechanic could we use that would still retain the intuitiveness of match-3, but bring something very original to the table?

I'm a little stumped myself, I would like to avoid doing a spin-off idea that is too similar, but it's almost like the match-3 mechanic is firmly carved into a part of my brain and I'm incapable of thinking past it.

As an idea for the RPG/match-3 clone, I had wondered vaguely about a mechanic where mages compete over a landscape built from 3d blocks. The player could use the mouse to drag out a line over the longets chain of a single block type as possible. The block could produce mana dependant upon it's terrain type: i.e. trees would produce green mana, lava would produce red mana, etc, etc. Then when blocks are destroyed, new blocks flood into the map. The twist to my idea though, would be to have the player standing on the terrain. When blocks are destroyed, the player is pulled around the map by the shifting influx of blocks, so block destruction influences the players position and line of sight.

Anyway, this post isn't about that specific idea, but rather I'd like it to investigate the possibility of something that could stand on par, or above the match-3 mechanic. Something new for casual and (possibly) hardcore players alike that wont have people muttering under their breath "so I get to save the world by matching 3 colours again?!".

I suppose if such an idea were so easy to come up with, someone would be onto a good deal of money by now, so I appreciate that this post is asking alot, but I also suppose that if you never ask the question, you'll never get an answer!

I suppose also, we need some guidelines to know what we're up against. I'm going to assume the following:

Taking from match-3 the mechanic should probably be turn based, facilitating multiplayer hotseating, strategy and a game that can be played at a fast or slow pace with or without interruptions. On the other hand, if turn based, the game should never keep the player waiting too long, ideally for no longer than a few seconds at most, perhaps making some allowances of course for multiplayer.

The mechanic should be intuitive, a player should be able to make reasonable progress without much thought or effort required, but more depth should be available in the mechanic if desired to add longevity, perhaps through more difficult levels as an optional element (even if optional just means later on in the game).

Luck should play a part in the mechanic, even a bad player should be able to get some positive feedback from the game to encourage as wide an audience as possible.

The mechanic should ideally only require a mouse and a single mouse button. We could allow for more complex controls for advanced players, but by default it needs to cater for the lowest comon denominator, so to speak.

That's about all I can think of for now. If anyone has any ideas, or bits of ideas it would be good to discuss them further. I'll also keep thinking on the idea and post anything I come up with.

Thanks for reading!

Steve

papillon
03-12-2007, 12:27 PM
While I never went into this notion in detail, I had a vague idea once for a colored-block game with an RPG twist in which instead of just matching colors into groups, you would have to move blocks around in order to form patterns - magical runes which would then be activated and cast spells.

Three-in-a-row could still function as the very simplest spell that would do only a tiny bit of damage... not much use with a time limit. To perform a better attack you could take more time to arrange a bigger, more complicated pattern, or you could get several threes ready before pressing the Activate button to send them all at once. You would learn more patterns as you progressed through the game. Some patterns might only work with specific colors...

*shrug* As I said, never went into this design in much detail.

Christian
03-12-2007, 01:21 PM
Hi, i have been designing and investigating on my game for a few months i think, its a game about inventions, so, i wanted to make the player be able to create inventions and the way to accomplish this is that the player should create patterns, but not in the match 3 way, so, im still trying to figure that all out but, im thinking on allowing the player to create their own combination of symbols that have different kind of effect on surrounding "tiles", that allow to create new combinations, so, there would be a objective to accomplish in each session of play, not just destroy all the tiles or something like that but make the tiles accomplish something, or reach to a specific pattern, as i said im till figuring that out so sorry for the "cloudy" ideas i present here, anyway i hope it helps.

Mephs
03-12-2007, 01:54 PM
On the contrary, it is very interesting to hear some ideas :)

I have considered the runic pattern spin-off from match-3 mechanics myself in the past. I think the problem with such systems though is that it is hard to visualize the effects that the changes you make will have. In match-3 games, the changes you make are about at the limits of what I think we can sensbly expect a player to forsee. Some players will definitely be able to comprehend such changes, but I feel it would alienate quite a segment of your potential audience.

I wonder if the answer is to be found by throwing out some of the core elements. Perphaps the next big thing will not involve blocks or colours, perhaps there are other problems we can pose a player that will have a similar feel that revolve around different core tokens. In my case, it would have to be something that fits in with the fantasy theme. Blocks in this case handily fit the theme of runes, so perhaps in my case I need to look at mechanics involving other well known fantastical methods of spell-casting.

Off the top of my head, I can think of the following magical/occult tools and methods of casting spells that may provide us with some interesting ideas for mechanics:

casting bones and runes stones,
tarot cards,
crystal balls,
magic wands,
scribing spells,
Ouija boards,
Scrying bowls,
tea leaves,
divining rods,
prayer,
directly manipulating magical forces such as mana,
palm reading,
Pentagrams and other magical drawings (rather than runes),
Latin-style spoken spell invocation,
Spell book,
Magic scroll.

I'll have a think on this list and see if any new mechanics spring to mind!!

Cheers,

Steve

Mephs
03-12-2007, 03:19 PM
I've had one idea building on a spinoff of the match 3 mechanic. We could take a "longest colour chain" mechanic with wildcard blocks and give blocks 2 colours, (taking from my Orbs thread) a core colour and a shell colour. In this manner, we make it slightly more difficult to spot patterns as players must take into account 2 colours per block, but having two colours means there will be a larger potential number of long chains as the player could connect to a block with either the same core colour or shell colour, so I think this will bring the difficulty balance back down a little.

We could also differentiate the effect of including a core or shell in the chain. We could have one worth more than the other, or we could have one represent something else, such as having cores represent offensive mana and shells representing defensive mana. This adds another layer of strategy in that the longest chain of blocks is not always the most powerful.

As for wildcard blocks, again, in my particular case, the wildcards could have different effects when used in a chain, such as powering a spell, damaging an opponent, dispelling an opponents spell, etc.

It's not revolutionary and it does still stick quite closely to the traditional mechanics, but hey, it's a start, it's not a blatant rip-off of any other system I know of, but I'd still like to consider expanding on the idea or considering completey different ideas if anyone has any.

Greg Miller
03-12-2007, 07:31 PM
Three-in-a-row could still function as the very simplest spell that would do only a tiny bit of damage... not much use with a time limit. To perform a better attack you could take more time to arrange a bigger, more complicated pattern, or you could get several threes ready before pressing the Activate button to send them all at once. You would learn more patterns as you progressed through the game. Some patterns might only work with specific colors...

*shrug* As I said, never went into this design in much detail.

Sounds reminiscent of Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo, which really was a great game. One of the few puzzle games that was actually pretty popular with core gamers in the arcades.

Mephs
03-13-2007, 06:45 AM
I've had an idea to subtly alter the mechanic in what I feel would be a positive manner.

Sticking with the mathc-3 spinoff mechanic of trying to create the longest chain of a single colour possible, I'd like to consider adding in two extra elements per block.

Each block should have a colour representing the player who influences the block. Each block should have a colour used for the chaining. Each block should have an item on it, such as coloured mana, gold, experience, a dispell scroll, etc.

The chaining colour will be the base tile colour. The player influence will be a glow around the item, and the item will be contained within the tile.

Players must then make a chain by dragging a line out across any adjacent tiles of the same colour. For every tile in the chain that the player has made, we check which player influences each tile. We get a ratio of player to opponent influence and this is the chance of success with the chain. If the player scores a success, they gain possession of all items in the chain. If they fail, the items are passed to the opponent.

This takes the focus away from a purely chain forming mechanic and puts a little risk/reward in. The longest chains are now not always the best to play as you may just suddenly gift your enemy with a large supply of mana and items! The player must balance the risk and reward. Perhaps players may even get a chance of success bonus for making chains with colours of magic that they are masters of to further weight the odds.

Now that gameplay isn't quite so predictable and contains an element of luck, players must work especially hard to ensure that when they are able to cast spells or use items, they use the right ones for the situation. The element of luck means that players can't rely on pattern recognition alone as in your average match-3 clone, they must take calculated risks.

Does anyone else have any ideas to introduce a risk element to gameplay?

Do you think it is fair to put player success down to calculated risks, or would players feel cheated by luck-based gameplay? Do you have any ideas to satisfy both camps?

LilGames
03-13-2007, 10:22 AM
Mephs:
Take "mages" and replace with something more casual friendly. Like cutesy-eyed little witches.

Mephs
03-13-2007, 12:36 PM
Yeah, that's fair comment. I have a tendancy to move towards fantasy or sci-fi based games as I've been interested in such themes since long before any computer RPG ever became popular in a big way.

I would however like to focus more on ideas for mechanics rather than theme though. I simply mention the theme in my case to provide inspiration for gameplay mechanics. If needs be I'm sure I can adjust the theme to suit a casual audience.

I've focused so far mainly on similar mechanics to match 3 though, are there any completely different mechanics that could provide a similar casual gamer appeal?

I've thought of some more requirements that I think narrow down the reason match-3 games appeal.

The core mechanic is something that at it's base is very intuitive. It is fine to add gradual layers of complexity at later stages, but players starting out must be able to graps the mechanic in seconds without prior knowledge of existing games.

So I suppose another way of perhaps discovering a new mechanic is to look at what players find intuitive.

Colour matching is simple, provided you aren't colour blind. A simple, single click mechanic combined with colour matching is about as simple as you can get, but provides as we have seen, many opportunities to adjust the core mechanic.

Simple shooting games would fall into this category too, you can fit a cute theme around the game, have the player stationary somewhere on the screen and have a simple system where the gameplay is based around aiming projectiles via setting the direction with the mouse and clicking to fire. Everyone can grasp simple shooting mechanics, perhaps with gravity thrown in.

From these two examples, I think perhaps a more simple way of phrasing my question for this thread would be what else could we do with just simple 1 button mouse control?

We could treat the question in a similar manner to the many contests I have seen to develop a game using only a single button, except in this case you can also add the mouse movement as allowing extra control. If people are capable of coming up with fantastic ideas for game control with 1 button, allowing an extra degree of freedom should give us massive opportunity for original ideas, yet instead we see so many clones.

I'll keep thinking on this myself as usual and see if I can't think of some more ideas :)

Cheers,

Steve

LilGames
03-13-2007, 09:34 PM
Match 6!!! It's twice as fun as match 3!

sorry, couldn't help it. I know this is not constructive. ;-)

whisperstorm
03-21-2007, 10:39 PM
BTW there is a Puzzle Quest demo for pc available:
http://dethroner.com/2007/03/17/games-for-men-puzzle-quest-demo/

It's mad fun!

TimS
03-23-2007, 07:04 AM
BTW there is a Puzzle Quest demo for pc available:

Mad fun indeed. First time in a LONG time I've played the demo version of a game for so long... (I love a good non-time-limited demo). Also easily the longest I've spent playing a match-3. This game is going to sell.

-Tim